I am setting up a 165 gal reef tank with a 55 gal refuge. The tank is 84 inches long. I think that this a great tank for tangs due to the length. Anyway, I am wondering how many tangs can I reasonably keep in it.
Here is what I am wanting to stock
Naso Tang
Sailfin Tang
3 Yellow Tangs
Blue Throat Trigger
5 Green Chromis
Maroon Clown (already have)
Some type of Fairy Wrasse
Flame angel or Flame hawkfish
Mandarin Dragonet
Lawnmower Blenny
Neon Goby
Cleanup crew
Please let me know about what you think about the stocking list
Too many tangs?
Too many large fish?
Too many fish total?
Please let me know about what you think about the stocking list
Too many tangs?
Too many large fish?
Too many fish total?
The answer to your question depends on your experience, the system's filtering devices you intend on using, if you are going to have a quarantine system, your commitment to keeping them well fed and giving them the proper diet, and probably more things I can't think of right now. It isn't as easy as just asking us the question. We can't perform the "magic" that it takes to keep a mixture of tangs together for you.
Tangs, by their nature are very territorial. Even though your tank is 84" long, it is minuscule compared to where the tangs originated. Tangs live in huge communal groups that roam the reefs grazing on algae all day long.
A Mandarin Dragonet requires a very mature system in order to survive and should not be purchased until the population of pods is great enough to sustain him and any other fish that feeds on pods such as the Neon Goby.
Give us more information maybe we can be of further help.
Dick
__________________ Amphibious
Reaching my 70th BD, I realize that I cannot help but grow old. However, I refuse to grow up!!! My wife would tell you, "He may be 70 but, He's going on 17". Life is wonderful with a woman like that.
Reaching my 70th BD, I realize that I cannot help but grow old. However, I refuse to grow up!!! My wife would tell you, "He may be 70 but, He's going on 17". Life is wonderful with a woman like that.
Well, I will have a 55 gal refuge with a 4 inch sand bed and cheto (I think that is what it is called) and a little live rock. In my display tank I will have 200 lbs of live rock and about 2 inches sand bed. I will be running a skimmer. I will also have 15 to 20 times flow rate. I will be using a 29 gal QT tank.
I understand that tangs need a variety in thier diet, including plenty of veggies. I also understand that you need to wait 10 to 12 months to add a mandarin, although I was not aware that a neon goby survives soley on pods and that I will need to wait to add it as well. I'm wanting to use the neon goby as a cleaner fish for the tangs
I am not asking you to perform "magic". I am asking for advice so that I can set up my tank with fish that I will enjoy, but that will not overload the bioload of the tank, or become stressed out.
I also understand that tangs as well as all of the other fish that come from the ocean are not use to the confines of a tank, no matter the size of the tank.
Thanks everyone for your comments, hopefully this futher information will help you give me advice on my tank setup.
Last edited by CoachD; 09-03-2006 at 10:42 AM.
Reason: spelling
I don't believe that Dick meant that neon gobies only eat pods but that they like pods and will eat them if they are available. I've never kept a neon goby but mandarins are slow methodical eaters and many, if not most, other species can out-compete them for pods so you need to have an abundant supply. Have you had time to listen to the latest podcast? It is all about copepods and I found it really informative.
Although your tank is quite long, there's still limited space for larger or many tangs, especially if you'll be filling up the real estate with live rock and corals.
Naso and tailfins can grow quite big. And are you sure you want 3 yellow tangs? They can also be a bit territorial and aggressive with their kind. I would suggest starting out with 2-3 tangs total and seeing how it goes. If the tank can handle the bioload (cause you've got 12 other fish you're wanting to put in), then maybe you can do with another one. But, I would grow slow, test your system and watch how things are doing.
Please keep in mind CoachD, we are responding to your first post on this forum and don't have a clew to your experience. Everything we say is meant to help you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmiejo
I don't believe that Dick meant that neon gobies only eat pods but that they like pods and will eat them if they are available. I've never kept a neon goby but mandarins are slow methodical eaters and many, if not most, other species can out-compete them for pods so you need to have an abundant supply. Have you had time to listen to the latest podcast? It is all about copepods and I found it really informative.
Right you are Carmie, thanks. Manderins require live pods and occasionally can be coaxed to take frozen food. Neon Gobies are opportunistic Pod eaters. Your pod production facility must take into consideration all possible consumers of pods you intend to keep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachD
Well, I will have a 55 gal refuge with a 4 inch sand bed and cheto (I think that is what it is called) and a little live rock. In my display tank I will have 200 lbs of live rock and about 2 inches sand bed. I will be running a skimmer. I will also have 15 to 20 times flow rate. I will be using a 29 gal QT tank.
I understand that tangs need a variety in thier diet, including plenty of veggies.
I just want to add here that, Romain lettuce is often referred to as an acceptable veggie for marine veggie eaters such as Tangs and it is not. Romain lettuce is a terrestrial grown veggie and is not a good substitute for marine grown veggies such as Nori, which can be had in many Oriental departments in grocery stores or Oriental food shops. I've found Nori to be exceptional in Tang nutrition.
Quote:
I also understand that you need to wait 10 to 12 months to add a mandarin, although I was not aware that a neon goby survives soley on pods and that I will need to wait to add it as well. I'm wanting to use the neon goby as a cleaner fish for the tangs
Neon Gobies are a cleaner fish but are poor in removing the white cysts of ich. It must not be on their menu. At least in my experience. None the less, an important addition to any system.
Quote:
I am not asking you to perform "magic". I am asking for advice so that I can set up my tank with fish that I will enjoy, but that will not overload the bioload of the tank, or become stressed out.
See my remark above about this being your first post here. A single Tang in a tank is subject to stress for various reasons. Once he establishes his dominance in the pecking order in the tank things settle down. If you try to house several of the same species, eg, 4 Yellow Tangs they will establish a pecking order and the weakest is likely to die from stress and starvation. If you catch him and give him a new home, it's likely the next weakest may go through the same fate. It's the nature of the beast, as they say. The only exception I can think of is the Yellow Tang, which I used as an example on purpose. When you add another species to the mix it throws the pecking order into chaos and all he## breaks lose. More stress than Tangs can handle.
Nowhere did I say it can't be done. I'm just trying to point out pitfalls so that when you make your decision on tank inhabitants you have a knowledge base to consider before you start throwing Tangs together. I personally love Tangs and there is nothing more eye catching than two or three Tangs getting along in a tank. Here is a picture of a resent group I kept together in a 135 reef.
There was a lot of bickering going on in the beginning but, by keeping a Nori clip in the tank 24/7 and rigorous feeding of other foods they got over their contempt for each other and settled down. Every thing was going along great when I was invited to take a fishing trip to Canada (I live in FL). I was gone two weeks and the tank experienced a break out of Ich. Normally that isn't a big concern when I'm home because I have a UV sterilizer that handles things like Ich. However, when I got home I found the UV was not circulating and that doomed my Tang trio.
I highly recommend you invest in a UV Sterilizer with the amount you are investing in your tank. It's an all too often piece of equipment that's left out of the mix of important equipment to have.
Sorry this is soooo long but, it's an important subject and you need to know we have your best interest at heart.
Dick
__________________ Amphibious
Reaching my 70th BD, I realize that I cannot help but grow old. However, I refuse to grow up!!! My wife would tell you, "He may be 70 but, He's going on 17". Life is wonderful with a woman like that.
Your list of desired fish can be done. If this is your first time dealing with naturally teritorial species like tangs, I would suggest doing so. Maybe elliminate the three yellow tangs. Honestly, Dick seems to be the expert on pushing the envelope when it comes with tangs. There are trick when mixing tang, I'm sure Dick can explain better than I can. Tricks include diverse sized, deture away from same shapes, rockwork formation, which ones to add first and so on. I am by no means an expert, so far I have managed to keep together a sailfin and a blue together without any problems.
Amphibious, sorry if I was a little short. I see all of these beautiful tanks with all these tangs, and then everyone says it can not be done. I do appreciate everyones advice.
I was considering 3 yellow tangs for schooling. Would it be easier to go with a naso, blue hippo, and a yellow tang?
So would a manarin and neon goby not be good tank mates, because they compete for the same foods. If not what would be a good cleaner that would go with the trigger?
It's not a problem. We are all getting to know each other here at TR.
Quote:
I see all of these beautiful tanks with all these tangs, and then everyone says it can not be done. I do appreciate everyones advice.
It can be done with proper sized aquariums, proper equipment, correct landscaping, proper feeding regimen, daily observation, proper maintenance and research into the Tangs needs. Everything must be taken into consideration. Experience is a big factor, I've been into this hobby 59 years, around 35 years strictly marine aquariums. I'll be the first to tell you, (before some one else tells you ) I'm not an expert!!! I do my best to learn something new everyday. I observe my aquariums diligently everyday, even with a magnifying glass. That is something I recommend all of you get. I have a 6" round magnifying glass and it reveals many things not or barely visible to the naked eye. You would be amazed.
Quote:
I was considering 3 yellow tangs for schooling. Would it be easier to go with a naso, blue hippo, and a yellow tang?
Hard to say but, probably. Keep in mind anytime you mix tang numbers, eg, 3 yellows or 3 of different species, you are gambling.
Quote:
So would a manarin and neon goby not be good tank mates, because they compete for the same foods. If not what would be a good cleaner that would go with the trigger? Again thanks for your advice.
The main consideration in keeping more than one pod eater is how to boost pod production to maintain a viable level of pods to keep the pod dependant eaters from eventually starving. Several pod eaters can deplete the population of pods in a large tank quite easily in a short period of time.
The way I and many of us do it is to provide an area in our sump and/or refugium for pod production. Macro algae in the S/R will provide an area for pods to reproduce. I use an additional method. I use an area of Pukka shells a couple of inches deep for them to live safely away from any predators in the S/R. Pods will migrate and be sucked up by the return pump intake and transported to the main display. Some will be killed in that process, many make it through and help repopulate the tank.
I would go with the Manderin and Neon Goby with the proper pod production facility. Also, pods are now available live from several sources.
Hope this helps.
Dick
__________________ Amphibious
Reaching my 70th BD, I realize that I cannot help but grow old. However, I refuse to grow up!!! My wife would tell you, "He may be 70 but, He's going on 17". Life is wonderful with a woman like that.
Thanks for everyone's replies.
I have just started putting water in the tank , so I have some time to come up with a final list, I would like to have one once it cycle so that I know that everything is compatible and that I do not change my mind later and have a fish that is not compatible with what I want. Anyway I have thought on my list and come up with a revised list. Please let me know what you think.
Naso tang
Yellow tang
Hippo tang (hopefully this are better choices, because they have different body types)
Blue Throat Trigger (I have read alot on this fish, and believe it is reef safe)
Marron Clown (already have in QT tank)
Some type of Fairy Wrasse
Flame angel or Flame hawkfish
Lawmower blennie
Neon Goby (cleaner fish)
Possible 3 Green Chromis
Clean up crew ( possible without shrimp,because of trigger and hawkfish)
Once I finalize my list, then I am wondering on which order to put them in.
to TR. I'm not a tang keeper so I will let the experts give you their opinion.
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) I'm not an expert!!! I do my best to learn something new everyday. I observe my aquariums diligently everyday, even with a magnifying glass. That is something I recommend all of you get. I have a 6" round magnifying glass and it reveals many things not or barely visible to the naked eye. You would be amazed.