Fish get cold sores ?

**Thadius** · 05-19-2006, 02:56 AM

Another total n00b question from me guys...

I've got my Percular Clown ? (that's what it was sold as, atleast.)

That photo shows nothing in the way of my problem. I've got two SLR film cameras my late father left me, but I've also got no idea on how to use them. He's got macro lenses and tripods and light meters and such, but I had to try my best on a cheap digital compact. Unfortunately the side I got wasn't the side the problem was on... My clown seems as if it's had a run-in with rock or substrate. It looks like a graze below it's bottom lip, except this graze on it's face is raised quite noticably and blood red... It also has a small white *thing* on it's face in the same position as the 'graze' is, but on it's top lip and much smaller, totally white. I noticed this *thing* some weeks ago (about two) and it's very slowly been getting larger, and covering more area.

Anyone with any clues as to what this could be ? I've googled for quite some time, but I'm getting no leads as to what it might be. Googling for 'red thing on fishes face' or 'red growth on fishes face' don't come up with much that is of much use. I don't consider myself to be incompetent as far as google goes, and finding my own way... but this one has me stumped. Any help would be appreciated. 'Nemo' has stuck with me for this long (2 months) and I'd hate to hurt/kill the poor little 'it'. The fish is otherwise in great shape, eating well and breathing like it's always done.

Cheers

**gwen_o_lyn** · 05-19-2006, 01:02 PM

Sorry about your fish. I have no idea either. Have you tried also googling "clown diseases" or "clown problems" ??

Even if you did know what it was, how would you treat it? You most likely don't wanna dose medication in your tank. Do you have a QT *quarantine tank*? You can always put him in one and dose treatments.

I know my clowns have gotten a few nicks and dings and have always healed up just fine. There was one time when I first got my pair when one had a few white spots and this is what I did:

Caught him in a net and did a freshwater dip with RODI for about 5 minutes. Many infections can't survive in freshwater and die. The fish will be ok. I dipped my fish a few times a week and then he was fine.

Also you may wanna soak his food in garlic to build up the immune system.

Maybe this will help. Do keep us posted.

**Thadius** · 05-19-2006, 06:43 PM

It's the only fish in the tank, and I've yet to get any corals or even live rock.

I'll have to get some RO water from work and try a dip. I'll also get stuck back into google and do a general search on clown diseases, thanks

**unleashed** · 05-19-2006, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Thadius

Another total n00b question from me guys...

I've got my Percular Clown ? (that's what it was sold as, atleast.)

That photo shows nothing in the way of my problem. I've got two SLR film cameras my late father left me, but I've also got no idea on how to use them. He's got macro lenses and tripods and light meters and such, but I had to try my best on a cheap digital compact. Unfortunately the side I got wasn't the side the problem was on... My clown seems as if it's had a run-in with rock or substrate. It looks like a graze below it's bottom lip, except this graze on it's face is raised quite noticably and blood red... It also has a small white *thing* on it's face in the same position as the 'graze' is, but on it's top lip and much smaller, totally white. I noticed this *thing* some weeks ago (about two) and it's very slowly been getting larger, and covering more area.

Anyone with any clues as to what this could be ? I've googled for quite some time, but I'm getting no leads as to what it might be. Googling for 'red thing on fishes face' or 'red growth on fishes face' don't come up with much that is of much use. I don't consider myself to be incompetent as far as google goes, and finding my own way... but this one has me stumped. Any help would be appreciated. 'Nemo' has stuck with me for this long (2 months) and I'd hate to hurt/kill the poor little 'it'. The fish is otherwise in great shape, eating well and breathing like it's always done.

Cheers

do check out this web site for moree helpful diagnisis and treatment ideas
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm

**fat walrus** · 05-19-2006, 09:58 PM

Thadius, ask Amphibious, he has seen fish longer than most of us has been alive, i sure he has some insights. i know that with me even after keeping fish for most of my life. it is still difficult sometimes to distinguish pictures properly.

**Thadius** · 05-20-2006, 02:59 AM

I've just gone and spent a few hundred dollars at the LFS (not so local)...
10g QT and I'm using a sponge filter which I already had, in it. The Percular Clown (I've counted 10 fins on it's back many times over) is going to live in the QT until the water is suitable in my display tank.

When buying my 10g tank today, everyone at the LFS individually gave me the same answer 'You've got poor water conditions, isolate your clown in a QT and let the LR in your display tank do it's work on the ammonia/nitite/nitrate"

I test my tank every second day (with my Hagen master test kit

) and the levels have been getting way too high. I've currently got off the scales of all 3 of the typical cycling elements.

I'm using sea water (I'm 400m (1/4 mile) from the mid-east coast of Australia bay and the lfs said the water from there would be fine on an incoming tide). So I'll continue to do a 50% water change every second day in my QT, which is running a sponge filter and has good water movement both below and above water level.

I know I've done wrong by a living creature, and I'll do everything I can do financially to save its life.

I'm still open to any hints or tips on this matter, and I will appreciate any feedback aswell.

Cheers

**Reefbaby** · 05-20-2006, 05:37 PM

Thadius - can you give us a little more background on your tank? Was it just recently set up? How long ago? Do you have live rock/live sand? What are you testing for and what are the numbers?

Fish are very sensitive to high ammonia levels, so if your levels are too high, he could very well be suffering as a result of this. By the way, many people have mentioned that the Hagen kits aren't so reliable. You might want to invest again in some good Salifert test kits.

Have you tested the sea water that you're collecting? You never know...you could be introducing parasites into your system. Check the nitrate/phosphate levels as well in the water that you're using for your water changes.

Are you using RO/DI water for your top-off?

If the water that you're collecting is at all contaminated, then I would suggest switching to a salt mix.

Let us know how you're doing....

**Thadius** · 05-20-2006, 10:07 PM

Tank has been up almost 6 weeks now, has huge levels of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.
I only just bought 22lbs of LR. I've got 3" of calcium carbonate substrate.

The hagen testkit's I'm well aware of, thanks to the podcast and a few other people. I paid $120 for it and I'm kinda stuck fincancially and won't be able to aford another master kit or even a few of the basic individual ones for a while

I've tested the water I'm collecting, and filtering out any solids with 50um filter paper before it goes into my QT. Due to my proximity to the Queensland coastline on the mid east coast of Australia, everyone I've talked to locally agree the water is safe when collected on an incoming tide from the end of the longest pier I can find (naturally I test it before it goes in anyway). I'm also using water from the ocean because I cannot yet afford an RO/DI unit. We've got MASSIVE 1000l units at work but I have no way of getting water back home in lots larger than 20l at a time, which would only be good for top-offs and not 20-25% weekly water changes

I can use it for my 10g tank to make a synthetic salt mix, but every LFS I've talked to have said the water is fine. (we're not too far from the GBR here...)
I'm currently only using conditioned tap water with my synthetic salt mix for the water changes on the display tank

I've got the Clown in the QT and have dosed with Melafix in the hope it will help my clowns *problem*.

As quite a few people do, I've rushed into this and now regret doing so. The book I read and based my startup on was from 2000 but I know know how wrong most of it was. If only I'd found TR before getting the tank wet :S

Tank parameters:

PH 8.0
Temp. 27C (80F)
Ammonia 5.0mg/L
Nitrite 3.3mg/L
Nitrate 110mg/L
SG 1.026

**Reefbaby** · 05-21-2006, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Thadius

Tank has been up almost 6 weeks now, has huge levels of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.

Okay...now maybe we can talk. As you've already stated, you rushed into this. But, let's see if we can help you out!

Originally Posted by Thadius

I only just bought 22lbs of LR. I've got 3" of calcium carbonate substrate.

what size is your tank?

Originally Posted by Thadius

The hagen testkit's I'm well aware of, thanks to the podcast and a few other people. I paid $120 for it and I'm kinda stuck fincancially and won't be able to aford another master kit or even a few of the basic individual ones for a while

okay...but let's make sure you don't add any more livestock until you've got all of your parameters in the acceptable ranges. Have you listened to the cycling show yet?

Originally Posted by Thadius

I've tested the water I'm collecting, and filtering out any solids with 50um filter paper before it goes into my QT. Due to my proximity to the Queensland coastline on the mid east coast of Australia, everyone I've talked to locally agree the water is safe when collected on an incoming tide from the end of the longest pier I can find (naturally I test it before it goes in anyway). I'm also using water from the ocean because I cannot yet afford an RO/DI unit. We've got MASSIVE 1000l units at work but I have no way of getting water back home in lots larger than 20l at a time, which would only be good for top-offs and not 20-25% weekly water changes

I can use it for my 10g tank to make a synthetic salt mix, but every LFS I've talked to have said the water is fine. (we're not too far from the GBR here...)
I'm currently only using conditioned tap water with my synthetic salt mix for the water changes on the display tank

Okay, if you've tested the water and feel confident in it's quality, then go for it. Some people are very successful with this method and it's definitely money-saving, provided that you can transport the volumes that you need.
Have you tested your tap water for nitrates and phospates? This could very well be contributing to your high values. If so, then I would suggest transporting the RODI water from work for your top-offs until you can afford to buy your own system.

V · 05-21-2006, 08:41 AM

can i add some input here!

i know where u are location wise, and unless your getting your water way off shore, theres no way i would chance getting it yourself. even on a ebb tide.
to many polluting factors my man, not to mention even if it looks ok, RB is correct in this that it could be parasites entering into the system through the water. its not uncommon! have a look at the conditions of piers, the fish wastes, the algie blooms, all sorts of gunk & rubbish & fish guts ect ect from people and fishermen, i know u filter it, but unless its circulated though a UV unit its not worth chancing it in my opinion.
i know synthetic salt can be a drain on the hip, but unless u have a deep sea source at the LFS, its going to save u money in the long run. And i know our tap waters pretty good, but unless u plan to keep straight fish only, its going to be another pit fall in the future. ive tried it first hand, it degrades the water to quickly.

you build stuff at work, kinda handy in the DIY department if i recall, why not save your smacko's for some materials and build a sealable sump for the boot of your car that could hold at least 100lt there. maybe a slow ride home watching the sky, but hey, at least u have a bulk solution that free or close to it!

for your haigen master kit, just check your lighting that u view it under, and place the test tube above the brightest white paper u have whilst u look from above through the tube. accurate enough for your needs. i use a aqua pharma inc set personally but the test kits last at least 6 months in proper storage conditions, so ur best making the most of it

i also drilled twin series of holes in a jarra wood block so my tubes sit in them, one tube for one chemical, but im a wierdo

how did u go with melafix?
u know there is 2 types, concentate for ponds is what i use, just need to pay attention of what strength to use
id be lost without this invention, its one of the best products thats captured natures healing.

**Thadius** · 05-23-2006, 07:13 AM

Where to start...

I feel quite confident now (only 2 months into the setup/hobby) on atleast the basics I'll need to slowly work my way into my dream tank (with google and the help of forums and LFS workers and such, of course). My worst mistake of all was the use of livestock to cycle the tank, and second to that was the gear I bought after reading only one book and trusting what it said. I've solved many a problem so far with google, it's only the ones I can't find an answer to, or find too many different answers to, that I'll ask here for personal opinions

My tank is 90g. My future plans for it is a full blown reef system (I'm also currently working on my custom built reef controller, but that's going to be a while). As for the local sea water... I've never used a drop of it in my main display tank, and don't really intend to. It's only being used now because a few local reefers said it would be fine just for a 50% water change in my 10g QT, and it's very easy for me to get. The ammount I'd have to spend on storage for the volumes I'd need would far outweigh the cost of an RO system (I've already worked out free filter refils for any RO/DI system I get, thanks to work

) plus the added risk of anything nasty that I could pickup from the seawater once I've got inverts/corals and much more sensitive (and expensive) fish. The household water here does need treating, I've got the 'best' water conditioner I've heard of and I figure that should probably hold me out until such time as I can get a small RO unit (which is right near the top of my 'MUST HAVE' list). veriann, your idea for a in-boot water storage tank rocks

but alas I've got a two door two seat sports car that you could hardly swing a cat in :/

As for other future plans, another bunch of LR and a custom built (and controlled

) sump will be added, probably about 40g is my current aim. RO/DI unit and I'm also planning a custom built MH hood because I've only got a 10k 34w fluro and a 40w actinic on the tank now.

The Melafix seems to be working well at clearing up the 'facial issues' with my Percular Clown. It's a smallish bottle (120ml) and says to dose 5ml for every 40l. Can't see anything on the label as to it being concentrate or otherwise (the lfs claimed I could not overdose on it).

Hope I've answered any questions asked

Thanks people

Cheers

V · 05-23-2006, 07:55 AM

u sound like your tightening the slack that happened at the start. great to hear my man. if u have any questions feel free to ask ok bud, besides the fact we are all here to help out where we can, im willing to go that extra distance for u if u need help tracking something down ok, u can take the queenslander out of the state, but u cant take queensland out of the queenslander.

your melafix bottle is normal grade, 5ml@40lt
i use pond strength, 5ml @200lt
once u run out of it prob try looking for it at pond strength, same price there abouts, & will save u money., just would advise u treat it only in a QT , not the future reef.
im glad to hear your fish is getting better, which is what the thread was about.

feel free to post your build projects & tank progress in a thread of your own on the site.
take care bud

**Thadius** · 05-23-2006, 08:00 AM

Go Queenslandah!

Thanks man, will do. Think I've said it before but I love seeing Aussies on forums anywhere, or even Aussies interested in reef tanks... Seems to be such an EU/US/UK dominated hobby, to me atleast

Cheers

V · 05-23-2006, 09:13 AM

yeah sometimes thats true, cause they started alot earlier than we seem to. but in saying that ive done the rounds of our great sites & forums, and we have some member's with killer tanks that rank up there with the best in the world.

big game tomorrow night, got a slab of the finnest riding on the outcome with NSWelshman that i befriended at work. that slab is so totally mine...lol

**Reefbaby** · 05-23-2006, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Thadius

Go Queenslandah!

Thanks man, will do. Think I've said it before but I love seeing Aussies on forums anywhere, or even Aussies interested in reef tanks... Seems to be such an EU/US/UK dominated hobby, to me atleast

Cheers

That's because we don't have the oresome Great Barrier Reef right at our doorstep!!! :-)

V · 05-23-2006, 05:24 PM

its mainly on the east side, cains marine handle the bulk of shipments around the country, but they are realy sourcing from other areas now around australia, NSW, SA, i was ammazed that we have a big source even over the West Aust. ive bought mainly fish from WA, but top notch quality thats for sure, enough to give GBR a run! Besides our own exotics, we have New Zealand and asia right next door, so we can be pretty lucky.. except when u try to import a fish from the red sea at a few hundred smacko's a pop...lol

**CarmieJo** · 05-23-2006, 09:33 PM

Thadius,

I am glad to hear that your clown is getting better.

**gwen_o_lyn** · 06-03-2006, 04:56 PM

Thadius- how is your clown doing? I'm sure he is all better now. The good thing about damsels is they can usually live through a cycle so at least you purchased a hardy fish.

**Thadius** · 06-03-2006, 05:48 PM

Whatever it was that was on my clowns face was clearing up, and it was alot happier in the display tank again. It hadn't eaten more than one pellet in five days though. The growth thing it had on it's lower lip also partly obstructed its mouth, but that didn't seem to worry it the two weeks before eating wise.

I got home on wednesday and little Nemo had got stuck to a powerhead (yes, the guard was on)

I think it was tired due to a lack of food. I've seen it get away from the very same intake a few times before... Just not this time.

R.I.P. Percula CLown

**gwen_o_lyn** · 06-03-2006, 05:51 PM

aww sorry about your fish

V · 06-03-2006, 06:31 PM

ouch, thats terrable, sory bud, if it was fresh water u would prob attrib it to cotton mouth of something. at any rate, give him a proper clown burial, with all the bells & wistles

**fat walrus** · 06-04-2006, 03:15 AM

you gave it your all. sorry to hear of your lost.

V · 06-04-2006, 04:55 AM

might need to look at the way u circulate, powerheads are all good untill your fish gets alittle to curiious, i had a trigger named bandit afew years back kill himself on the output of the powerhead, if i didn;t see it for myself i would never have believed it, but he put his snout in the output, and the very high flow puffed his cheeks/mouth out that much he obiously couldn't close it enough to get out. he was well an trully gone when i found him in the same position.
tragic day, i was

for along time, the misses had her trigger, this was my addition- undulated trigger with a green fluro line across his eye line!

**fat walrus** · 06-04-2006, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by veriann

might need to look at the way u circulate, powerheads are all good untill your fish gets alittle to curiious, i had a trigger named bandit afew years back kill himself on the output of the powerhead, if i didn;t see it for myself i would never have believed it, but he put his snout in the output, and the very high flow puffed his cheeks/mouth out that much he obiously couldn't close it enough to get out. he was well an trully gone when i found him in the same position.
tragic day, i was

for along time, the misses had her trigger, this was my addition- undulated trigger with a green fluro line across his eye line!

holy c^@p! that's wild! its like a volkswagen commercial! sorry about your loss, but now you got me thinking about fish blowing up.

V · 06-04-2006, 06:25 AM

it was my fish, but the verbal bashing i got from the misses, sheesh, i heard it everyday for weeks about getting rid of the powerheads, even though i said it was prob a million to one freaky accident