need to seahorses

**wwemasterj** · 12-09-2009, 09:37 PM

i have an eclipse 12 and i was wondering if i could put any type of seahorses in my tank?? any help would be great

~jeff~

**rayme07** · 12-09-2009, 09:41 PM

I think that tank should be good for a couple seahorses. But like most anything exotic in this hobbie it takes a lot of care. I would suggest doing lots of research on the specific seahorse that you are going to get and make sure it is compatible with the size tank you have. I would also wait to see what the others say that are more familiar with horsies than I am to see what they think.

**wwemasterj** · 12-09-2009, 10:00 PM

would you recommand any type of seahorse??

**rayme07** · 12-09-2009, 10:03 PM

The only ones that I am really familiar with is the pygmy seahorses but those are even harder to take care of then the bigger ones and need expert care. I am sorry that I cant help much than that.

**wwemasterj** · 12-09-2009, 10:08 PM

oh ok thanks for the info

**saxman** · 12-09-2009, 11:36 PM

a NC 12 isn't a good tank for SH at all. all of the "plug-n-play" tanx run too hot and need to be modded to run cooler. also, as mentioned, the only SH that will fit in a NC 12 are zots (H. zosterae), AKA dwarf SH, which are NOT pygmy SH. zots require live BBS or copepods daily, so you'll need to culture them.

a good minimum tank size for a pair of larger species SH is a std 29 gal. it is tall enuff for them to be comfortable and is a decent volume of water. SH are very tuff on water quality due to their eating habits and their digestive systems (SH lack a true stomach, and cannot hold food for digestion).

also, even tropical SH should be kept at 74*F max to reduce the chances of them developing bacterial infections.

HTH

**rayme07** · 12-10-2009, 12:02 AM

Thanks Greg for correcting me, looks like I need to do a lot more research.

**saxman** · 12-10-2009, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by rayme07

Thanks Greg for correcting me, looks like I need to do a lot more research.

nah, lots of peeps call zots "pygmies", but the true pygmies are species such as H. bargibanti or H. colemani, which aren't available to the hobby, and i doubt they ever will be. BTW, pygmies are only about 1/2" long, while zots max out at less than 2", typically 1.5".

personally, after having reared SH fry and having to hatch BS twice a day to feed them, i leave the zots for peeps who really want them. they are indeed cute, but you really have to like them to do all that!

surprisingly, zots have the largest fry even tho they're one of the smallest species, and since the parents eat the same food, the fry can be reared in the same tank as the adults.

**rayme07** · 12-10-2009, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by saxman

nah, lots of peeps call zots "pygmies", but the true pygmies are species such as H. bargibanti or H. colemani, which aren't available to the hobby, and i doubt they ever will be. BTW, pygmies are only about 1/2" long, while zots max out at less than 2", typically 1.5".

personally, after having reared SH fry and having to hatch BS twice a day to feed them, i leave the zots for peeps who really want them. they are indeed cute, but you really have to like them to do all that!

surprisingly, zots have the largest fry even tho they're one of the smallest species, and since the parents eat the same food, the fry can be reared in the same tank as the adults.

wow only a 1/2'' long that is cool and really small. I used to want the zots but after reading all the work and preparation to keep them a live I may wait a while to try and care for them when I am confident enough and have a lot more money. lol

Thanks again Greg.

**Ann Marie** · 12-10-2009, 10:08 PM

I've got zots (as well as a couple of other species in other tanks) and once you get used to the feeding it's not too bad. The thing I hate about them (and I feel they are worth my trouble) is cleaning their tank!!! I spend more time studying the waste water for ones that got 'sucked up' during cleaning than I spend actually cleaning. Don't use a plug and play for them. I have but I've made tons of my own adjustments and while I like the look of it, I wouldn't do it again. You'd also HAVE to run a chiller because they just get too warm for them. (Well you don't HAVE to but you should!)

**lance** · 12-11-2009, 02:24 AM

dwarf seahorses would be great for the setup and are a very hardy and easy sea-horse for a beginner just research them and there need's before you buy

lance

**saxman** · 12-11-2009, 02:45 PM

from a pinned post on the SH forum:

ever since their inception, it seems as if this question has been asked with an increasing frequency. as the owner of four such systems, three JBJ Nanocubes and an Aquapod, i feel i can speak first-hand/real life on the issue.

1. 8's, 12's, 14's are all too small for SH, unless you plan to keep dwarf SH. you need at LEAST a 24, 28, or 34 gal.

THE FIX:

there's no getting around the size issue...you need a large enuff tank, whether it's a plug 'n' play (hereafter, PNP) or a regular system.

2. ALL of these systems typically run at 80*F, which is at least 6*F too warm even for tropical SH. this is a very important factor, as SH tend to be prone to bacterial infections, especially at warmer temps due to an increase in bacterial count. you may hear "SH are found in 80*F water in the wild", but you must remember that the bacterial concentration in a closed system is infinitely greater than that of the ocean.

THE FIX:

get a chiller. this is the best and most reliable way to go.

there is an Integrated Chill Assist (ICA) offered by NANOTUNERS, however, this is a tuff mod to acomplish, and it's not really a true chiller in the sense it runs 24/7 and there's no temp set. what it does is cool the tank down at night to give you a lower "baseline" temp in the AM.

however, you can get a temp reduction of about 2*F-3*F by swapping out the stock pump for a cooler-running model (e.g. get a pump that consumes fewer Watts). this will also help with the flow problem (see #3). i've found that Maxi-Jets are a good bet here. it only takes about 10 mins to swap out the pump. depending on your flow scheme, a MJ 400 or MJ 600 are good choices.

also, if you have one of the "open sump" designs where the top of the filtration area is open, run a fan over it. leave the "feeding lid" open. if you have a glass covered HQI model, remove the cover and run a fan over the water surface to increase evaporative cooling.

3. the flow in these systems is too high.

THE FIX:

you can replace the stock pump with a lower flow model (if you choose a lower "wattage" pump, this will also help with the temp, see #2). you can also split the reutrn by removing the stock nozzle (it just pulls off) and adding a locline Y connector and the fittings of your choice to split the flow up. this also helps with being able to direct the flow to remove dead spots.

PROS

the PNP tanx go up quickly and easily, and they make VERY pretty tanx. they're also compact and fit nicely where space is an issue.

hopefully, this will answer the most FAQ regarding these tanx. feel free to use the search feature, and don't hesitate to ask more specific questions as they arise.

**wwemasterj** · 12-11-2009, 08:16 PM

thx for all the information.... i dont wanna sound dumb or anything but what nc 12????

**Ann Marie** · 12-12-2009, 07:13 PM

No worries, I'm a question asker. I like to know the whys about everything.

Nano Cube 12 gallon.

**Ann Marie** · 12-12-2009, 07:27 PM

I don't know if I'd call dwarf seahorses 'easy'. I have 3 different species of seahorses and they are the ones that take the most work.

My larger seahorses eat frozen mysis so when it's time to eat, I defrost a little, rinse, and feed. To feed my dwarfs I have to decapsulate brine shrimp eggs (don't have to but it's better) and then hatch them. I have to start another culture for the next day. Doesn't take long and I'm into the routine but it is more work.

My larger seahorse have easier tank maintenance. The dwarfs get sucked up sometime in the hose so I can't just dump the water, I have to check it carefully. Aptasia can kill dwarf seahorses, so you have to be viligent about making sure there are none in there. Also because of the amount of food that's left in there (I can remove what's uneaten in the bigger species) algae is a constant battle.

I'm not trying to make it seem like it's a lot of work, it's easy just time consuming. I love my seahorses but where I can skip a days of feeding on my reef; I can't on my seahorse tanks.

Here's a couple photos of my dwarfs. The one on the left is just a baby. The little dots you see floating around are the newly hatched baby brine shrimp.

**saxman** · 12-14-2009, 04:26 PM

ARGH...i just realized the OP was referring to an ECLIPSE 12...*blush*

**Dragonwolf** · 12-16-2009, 08:16 AM

SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 2009
Net Pen Raised Seahorses Part II
Net Pen Raised Seahorses Pt. I

Don't buy Kelloggi seahorses. If you ever see a seahorse for sale at your local fish store like the one pictured here, pass it by. You'll be saving yourself money and heartache. Thanks to Dylan of Seahorse.org for this photo of a young Hippocampus kelloggi seahorse in a Wisconsin local fish store.

When you see a seahorse at your local fish store, you're most likely to see a Kelloggi a.k.a. "Great Seahorse," which is the most commonly pen-raised seahorse. It's not because they make great pets or because they are hardy. The main reason Kelloggi seahorses became popular to raise in net-pens is because they are good business for the Traditional Chinese Medicine trade. Larger seahorses command higher prices in the TCM trade than smaller seahorses. Kelloggi seahorses, which are native to Vietnam and Asia where they are pen raised, are a very large species, growing up to 11.5" in length. Only the H. abdominalis from Australia and H. ingens from Mexico grow larger at 12" max length. Kelloggi seahorses are grown for about one year before being harvested, dried, and sold for the TCM trade. However, when this same species is sold for the aquarium trade, they are sold when they are only three or four months old. Depending on the species, many larger species of True Captive Bred seahorses are sold as late as 9 months after birth.

Kelloggi seahorses are more likely to be purchased by first-time seahorse owners because of their low price and high availability. Ironically, Kelloggi seahorses are one of the most difficult seahorse species to keep in an aquarium. This is in part due to the fact that they are Net Pen raised or Tank Raised and tend to have high incidences of disease and parasites. More importantly, Kelloggi seahorses are a deepwater species living in waters up to 152 meters in depth. Compare this to the hardy H. reidi seahorse which spends most of its life between 15 and 55 meters in depth. Since Kelloggi seahorses live in deeper waters, it is speculated that they prefer lower lighting and cooler water temperatures. Most experts agree that this species should be kept at a maximum temperature of 68 degrees Farenheit.

I think it's safe to say that most first-time seahorse buyers don't quarantine or deworm their seahorses. Since Net Pen raised seahorses are exposed to the same pathogens as Wild Caught seahorses, it is imperative that they go through a lengthy quarantine of at least 4 weeks, preferably 2 months. During this quarantine period, they should be dewormed, closely observed, and re-trained to eat frozen foods. Essentially, this species should be treated with the same exact precautions as Wild Caught seahorses. In fact, Kelloggi seahorse buyers should be even more cautious considering very few aquarists have been successful with this difficult species for more than a few months.

In May of 2008 Pete Giwojna of Seahorse.com had this to say about Kelloggi seahorses--

"In light of the health problems so many home hobbyists have been having with their H. kelloggi for some time now, I have been discussing the needs and requirements of this species with advanced aquarists and experts that have worked with H. kelloggi in the past. The consensus seems to be that the current crop of H. kelloggi are being shipped out to hobbyists while they are still too young (the two-inch long juveniles are no more than 3-4 months old) and that they are not well adapted to aquarium conditions because they are likely being pen raised. The tiny H. kelloggi juveniles would fare better if they allowed them to grow up for a few more months and shipped them at the age of around six months.

However, the primary problem folks have been having with their H. kelloggi may be due to their temperature requirements. The people I conferred with maintained that H. kelloggi is a deepwater seahorse and is therefore adapted for lower light levels than most seahorses and also requires an cool water (Lisa Coit et al., pers. com.). They feel that this species should be maintained in temperate tanks rather than tropical aquaria, and that H. kelloggi will only thrive if they are maintained at a water temperature of 68°F or less (Lisa Coit et al., pers. com.). They report that if the H. kelloggi are maintained at standard aquarium temperatures for a tropical marine aquarium (i.e., 75°F-78°F) they will be plagued by various bacterial infections and suffer as a result."

**Ryan Underwater** · 12-18-2009, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Ann Marie

I don't know if I'd call dwarf seahorses 'easy'. I have 3 different species of seahorses and they are the ones that take the most work.

My larger seahorses eat frozen mysis so when it's time to eat, I defrost a little, rinse, and feed. To feed my dwarfs I have to decapsulate brine shrimp eggs (don't have to but it's better) and then hatch them. I have to start another culture for the next day. Doesn't take long and I'm into the routine but it is more work.

My larger seahorse have easier tank maintenance. The dwarfs get sucked up sometime in the hose so I can't just dump the water, I have to check it carefully. Aptasia can kill dwarf seahorses, so you have to be viligent about making sure there are none in there. Also because of the amount of food that's left in there (I can remove what's uneaten in the bigger species) algae is a constant battle.

I'm not trying to make it seem like it's a lot of work, it's easy just time consuming. I love my seahorses but where I can skip a days of feeding on my reef; I can't on my seahorse tanks.

Here's a couple photos of my dwarfs. The one on the left is just a baby. The little dots you see floating around are the newly hatched baby brine shrimp.

Awesome pics! Makes me want some. I scared of them dying though haha.

**Ann Marie** · 12-19-2009, 02:56 AM

I love them. I think that they are the most active and the most fun to watch of all my seahorses. It is terrible when one dies! Because they have such a personality (seahorses in general) I find the death of one the worst of all my animals. I try and provide the best diet and conditions that I can, so it doesn't happen often.

**CarmieJo** · 12-19-2009, 04:49 PM

Ann Marie, what kinds of ponies do you have?

**Ann Marie** · 12-19-2009, 08:03 PM

Hi Carmie! I have 3 different species in different tanks (it's best not to mix species).

I have Hippocampus zosterae (dwarfs). I have no idea how many, maybe 40.

I also have 4 Hippocampus comes (tiger tails) and 2 Hippocampus erectus (lined seahorse).

I'll see if I can get the photos of some of them attached.

**Ann Marie** · 12-19-2009, 08:10 PM

Here are a couple of dwarf seahorses.

**Ann Marie** · 12-19-2009, 08:16 PM

I only have photos of 3 of my 4 comes. The one with the big belly is a male that is about to give birth. The yellow one now matches the other 3 and is black and white, but she keeps a little yellow on the underside of her tail.

**Ann Marie** · 12-19-2009, 08:20 PM

Finally, the two H. erectus or lined seahorses. The female is the maroon and the male is the peach. They were greeting each other and so they are a little lighter than they normally are.