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Thread: Scopas tang

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    Curious Reefer
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    Thumbs down Scopas tang

    Hi guys i want to get a new tang i just lost my blue hippo to a bad ick problem its been 2 weeks and none of my other fish are showing any problems i was at my lfs and fhey have a scopas tang small but a nice looking fish i have a 90 gallon tank i want to put him in will he be ok in that size tank no other tangs in the tank i do have a 120 but its still not ready for fish does anyone have any insight on this fish is it a hardy fish will it be as hard to keep as the hippo seem like i had alot of problems with it don't want to go through that anymore so please help any info would help

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    Assistant Moderator rayme07's Avatar
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    I have not had a scopas tang but here is some info I found online for you. Scopas Tang

    Even though this article says that it should not be in a tank smaller than 75 gallons Its wrong. I think it should not be housed in a tank less than a 100 gallons and that would go for any other tangs too. If you are going to have the scopas in the 90 gallon for a short time then move it to the 120 it will be fine. But if you keep it in the 90 for its life than you will have the same problems you had with the hippo ich. HTH
    Ray or Raymond
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    Insightful Reefer Russel P's Avatar
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    Scopas tangs are great additions to a reef. I've yet to have a single one give me problems nipping. Most tangs are ich magnets, so I wouldn't put one in a tank that had an ich outbreak two weeks ago. The tank would ideally need to be fallow for 30+ days to be on the safe side.

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    Crispy Reef Monkey **MOD** Phurst's Avatar
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    I agree about the timing, but I love mu scopas. An attractive fish and a workhorse at keeping algae at bay.
    **KEEP ME AWAY FROM SUPER GLUE ... i tend to glue my lips shut !!**

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    Apprentice sunny d polyp's Avatar
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    size of tank for tangs...

    I'm a diver and I understand the theory behind large tanks for tangs I see them swimming and darting 30 or 40 miles an hour, they are agile and seem to use large areas of the reef as their venue. I have always housed tangs in tanks no larger than 75/gal for years, I had a sail fin in a 46 bow for years until I moved up to a 75/gal, this fish is beautiful and symetrical and seems to be suffering no ill effects from not being housed in a 180 which is what most people think they should be in. I'm not here to debate but rather give some evidence to the contrary. I belonged to R/C for a long time until some of the members came down like the wath of God on a fellow reefer for housing his tang in a smaller tank. I know this is a hot topic and please understand I do not want to offend anyone and when my tangs have outgrown the tank I will donate to friends or family.
    Don't sweat the small stuff...

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    Apprentice Captinsmooth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phurst View Post
    I agree about the timing, but I love mu scopas. An attractive fish and a workhorse at keeping algae at bay.

    My friend has one in his 125. An you couldn't have picked a better word to describe this fish it never stops grazing ever. Beautiful fish!
    The problem is not to manage the reefs but to manage human population and their activities.
    Bernard Salvat

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    Apprentice sunny d polyp's Avatar
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    tangs...

    My scopas and sailfin actually seem to like one another, I've heard you can't mix them but maybe I just got lucky. My sailfin does keep my copper banded butterfly at bay, he doesn't physically hurt it but I wouldn't call them buddies either.
    Don't sweat the small stuff...

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    Expert Reefer CompulsiveAqua's Avatar
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    Wait 6 weeks to fallow.
    Sunny is right, we keep dogs in kennels their whole life, is that right? Don't you think any fish in any tank is confining? Come one, forums have cliches too, don't believe the hype.
    I run with ich in my tank, the only one that gets a speck is the Hippo once every two months, nothing on the Naso, Yellow, Sailfin, 2 Percula, or Tomato...I know I'm a bad person.
    Someone in the hobby for a long time (30 years +) told me that if you keep your water quality in check, ich is nothing more than the common cold. Worked for me.
    LARRY!!!!

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    SPS Reefer / TR Admin lReef lKeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CompulsiveAqua View Post
    Someone in the hobby for a long time (30 years +) told me that if you keep your water quality in check, ich is nothing more than the common cold. Worked for me.
    that is not exactly accurate ... a tang in a small tank MUST BE properly fed, and live stress free to keep its immune system strong. adding garlic extract to it prepared foods is thought to help as is adding vitamins such as vitamin c. water quality actually has very little to do with fish, except for salinity, temp, and half way low nitrates.

    if you insist on keeping a tang in a small tank, be prepared for the high probability of giving it away when it gets to big. i am adding a Sargassum Trigger to my 50g (3') reef, but i know that i have 1 of 1000 tanks around the world that are suitable for him when he reaches a size that is to large for my system to handle. right now he is only ~3" so i have a while before he has to go, but he WILL have to go to a bigger tank.
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    Expert Reefer CompulsiveAqua's Avatar
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    You are not accurate either (see the cliches I'm talkn about, love you all in the hobby, but there is alot about this hobby that is not proven, lol)......Vitamin C is for HLLE, garlic is not proven, bad water quality causes stress, not feeding your fish properly is just dumb and you should remove yourself from the hobby (lol), over feeding causes stress and bad water quality...you can't say it's not related....the facts are: Tangs are high risk fish when it comes to ich, and the tank in question has ich and needs to fallow for 6 weeks, that means pulling the other fish out into quarintine, during those 6 weeks the Tang thats gonna be bought should be thrown into a seperate quarintine for those 6 weeks too, or ich could just be introduced back in it from either the sick fishes from the original tank or the potentially sick new Tang. Bllllllllsssssssssssstttttttt!!!!! Love you all, just like to cause trouble.
    LARRY!!!!

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    Assistant Moderator rayme07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CompulsiveAqua View Post
    Sunny is right, we keep dogs in kennels their whole life, is that right? Don't you think any fish in any tank is confining?
    Yes that is true but to keep a dog in a kennel you have guide lines you have to follow or you get your dog taken away, fined or even go to jail for not housing him in a big enough kennel. Am I right. Because dogs need enough room to run around and get exercise. And if they don't they get unhealthy, fat, and end up dieing sooner due to a heart attack or some other disease. It is the same way with Tangs they need big enough tanks to get their exercise swim fast and burn off their food the way they would do in the ocean. Sitting in a small tank they are going to get just like a dog in a small kennel really fat, unhealthy and sick.

    Quote Originally Posted by CompulsiveAqua View Post
    You are not accurate either (see the cliches I'm talkn about, love you all in the hobby, but there is alot about this hobby that is not proven, lol)......Vitamin C is for HLLE, garlic is not proven, bad water quality causes stress, not feeding your fish properly is just dumb and you should remove yourself from the hobby (lol), over feeding causes stress and bad water quality...you can't say it's not related....the facts are: Tangs are high risk fish when it comes to ich, and the tank in question has ich and needs to fallow for 6 weeks, that means pulling the other fish out into quarintine, during those 6 weeks the Tang thats gonna be bought should be thrown into a seperate quarintine for those 6 weeks too, or ich could just be introduced back in it from either the sick fishes from the original tank or the potentially sick new Tang. Bllllllllsssssssssssstttttttt!!!!! Love you all, just like to cause trouble.
    Over feeding does not really cause stress if you have good equipment to take the crap out then go ahead and do so. I overfeed just a little to keep my corals and fish fat (but not to fat) so they are happy and healthy. And my tank is not overrun my nitrates and causing everything to get stressed they are happy as they can be. Feeding fish garlic is supposed to help the fishes immune system and fight all diseases but that I do not think is proven yet but I feed with garlic once in a while and had no diseases yet. I think it is better to feed any fish that can get head and lateral line syndrome as much Nori soaked in vitamins as you can and you should be fine.
    Ray or Raymond
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    Apprentice sunny d polyp's Avatar
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    tangs....

    So true Reef Keeper, I do get attached to my fish and when it comes time to move them because they get too big it's not easy. Every fish I have ever had for an extended length of time has it's own distinct personality and knows my face, my wife whom loves the tank but doesn't feed gets the cold shoulder from my fish they avoid making eye contact (she's a beautiful woman so it's not her looks that scare them) and hide, but they recognize me. I feed often and probably by most opinions have too many fish for an invert tank, so I compensate by running 6 bags of Chem-zorb in a Fluval 24/7 and a Phosban reactor, I also do 15%partials every week end and two fuges (on reverse timers) to keep the water parameters good. The only time I have ever had an out break of Ich (not in 10 years) was due to the water temp not staying constant, from what I understand ich is always present in an aquarium but it takes something (stress) to trigger it, I may be wrong so don't quote me.
    Don't sweat the small stuff...

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    SPS Reefer / TR Admin lReef lKeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CompulsiveAqua View Post
    Vitamin C is for HLLE, garlic is not proven, bad water quality causes stress, not feeding your fish properly is just dumb and you should remove yourself from the hobby (lol), over feeding causes stress and bad water quality...you can't say it's not related....the facts are: Tangs are high risk fish when it comes to ich, and the tank in question has ich and needs to fallow for 6 weeks, that means pulling the other fish out into quarintine, during those 6 weeks the Tang thats gonna be bought should be thrown into a seperate quarintine for those 6 weeks too, or ich could just be introduced back in it from either the sick fishes from the original tank or the potentially sick new Tang.
    is that not EXACTLY what i said, just reworded ??

    Quote Originally Posted by CompulsiveAqua View Post
    Vitamin C is for HLLE, garlic is not proven, bad water quality causes stress, not feeding your fish properly is just dumb and you should remove yourself from the hobby (lol), over feeding causes stress and bad water quality...you can't say it's not related.
    and Vitamin C is ALSO an immune system booster, why do humans use it to get over a cold ?? come on man, you said EXACTLY whay i said, just reworded it. the "dumb" people comment is just uncalled for (and probably insulting to some people) and happens more than you might think.

    i personally dont care if you call me "tang police" or dont like me, but dont try to call me out on something by rewording what what i say and calling me wrong.

    BTW ... MHLLE is also a disease (like ich). hmmm, i wonder if the immune system has anything to do with fighting that disease TOO ??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by CompulsiveAqua View Post
    over feeding causes stress and bad water quality...you can't say it's not related.
    its only related IF you dont have the proper equipment to start with. as Ray said ... if you have the PROPER equipment to handle how you feed, it DOES NOT affect water quality. of course, whatever i post ASSUMES that the proper equipment is in place unless otherwise noted.
    Last edited by lReef lKeeper; 12-08-2009 at 09:44 PM.
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    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Actually there is no firm evidence as to what causes MHLLE. This article Marine Head & Lateral Line Erosion: A Description of the Syndrome and a Review of its Speculated Causes by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com outlines many possibilities. Much of what we know about nutraceuticals in humans is inconclusive and yet we take antioxidents, fish oil, garlic and many others either because we feel better when we do, our doctor recommends it or we have read or researched something that says it is good for us.

    If the studies in humans are not definitive it is little wonder that in other animals they are nearly non existent. So we do what we can to provide the best environment to have healthy fish. We manage waste removal to keep water quality high, feed nutritious foods that have been soaked in vitamins and other nutrients, keep animals in appropriate sized tanks and with appropriate tank mates.

    Underfeeding is not an acceptable way to manage water quality. Underfed fish are susceptible to disease and often die prematurely. Things like garlic and vitamins are not proven but enough anecdotal evidence exists that I routinely use both.

    Someone who has exemplary water quality, feeds appropriately and does not overstock may successfully keep a fish like a tang in a smaller tank. Unfortunately many people who think they can get away with it find that they are mistaken.
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    Expert Reefer CompulsiveAqua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarmieJo View Post
    Actually there is no firm evidence as to what causes MHLLE. This article Marine Head & Lateral Line Erosion: A Description of the Syndrome and a Review of its Speculated Causes by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com outlines many possibilities. Much of what we know about nutraceuticals in humans is inconclusive and yet we take antioxidents, fish oil, garlic and many others either because we feel better when we do, our doctor recommends it or we have read or researched something that says it is good for us. I heard chicken soup...
    If the studies in humans are not definitive it is little wonder that in other animals they are nearly non existent. So we do what we can to provide the best environment to have healthy fish. We manage waste removal to keep water quality high, feed nutritious foods that have been soaked in vitamins and other nutrients, keep animals in appropriate sized tanks and with appropriate tank mates.

    Underfeeding is not an acceptable way to manage water quality. Underfed fish are susceptible to disease and often die prematurely. Things like garlic and vitamins are not proven but enough anecdotal evidence exists that I routinely use both.

    Someone who has exemplary water quality, feeds appropriately and does not overstock may successfully keep a fish like a tang in a smaller tank. Unfortunately many people who think they can get away with it find that they are mistaken.


    There was no repeating of your words,IReefmaast???, Ray you need to learn alot about breeding dogs and Carmie Joe I think I love you, you always save the day...nothing is proven and it is possible to keep a tang in a small tank...did you ask the Tang what he thought, IRMI???That's sort like IMRI, maybe there is a correlation??lol People also thought you couldnt keep a one gallon reef. You guys are so freakn seriuos, guess I shouldn't bring up about what I think of religion huh?
    Last edited by CompulsiveAqua; 12-09-2009 at 07:47 AM. Reason: i oopsied
    LARRY!!!!

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    Expert Reefer CompulsiveAqua's Avatar
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    Ok I'm done...
    LARRY!!!!

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    SPS Reefer / TR Admin lReef lKeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lReef lKeeper View Post
    that is not exactly accurate ... a tang in a small tank MUST BE properly fed, and live stress free to keep its immune system strong. adding garlic extract to it prepared foods is thought to help as is adding vitamins such as vitamin c.water quality actually has very little to do with fish, except for salinity, temp, and half way low nitrates.
    Quote Originally Posted by CumpulsiveAqua View Post
    Vitamin C is for HLLE, garlic is not proven, bad water quality causes stress, not feeding your fish properly is just dumb and you should remove yourself from the hobby (lol), over feeding causes stress and bad water quality
    basicly exactly what i said ... different words.

    i to am done ... if you insist on TRYING to call me out on something, do some research first. if it continues, this thread will be closed. you are absoultely right here though ...

    Quote Originally Posted by CumpulsiveAqua View Post
    You guys are so freakn seriuos
    i wouldnt be half the reefer i am today if i wasnt serious about my hobby. im not trying to soundy cocky, i have the credentials to back it up.

    discussion over ... period
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    Expert Reefer CompulsiveAqua's Avatar
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    You are so right, I hope I grow up and can be just like you...there are always possibilities when nothing is proven or fact...do what you want with the thread, boss.
    LARRY!!!!

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    Assistant Moderator rayme07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CompulsiveAqua View Post
    [/COLOR]
    Ray you need to learn alot about breeding dogs
    I have bred dogs before my dad and I bred labs for almost 6 years. And there were guidelines you had to follow with the law and buy permits and keep them in a certain size pen or you lose your breading license and more. Dog kennels where they breed dogs every chance they can get without breaks are illegal where I live and many other states and are not the humane way of breeding dogs IMO.
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    Expert Reefer CompulsiveAqua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayme07 View Post
    i have bred dogs before my dad and i bred labs for almost 6 years. And there were guidelines you had to follow with the law and buy permits and keep them in a certain size pen or you lose your breading license and more. Dog kennels where they breed dogs every chance they can get without breaks are illegal where i live and many other states and are not the humane way of breeding dogs imo.
    k.
    LARRY!!!!

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    Apprentice sunny d polyp's Avatar
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    differences...

    That's what I love about this forum, so much experience and just as many ideas and beliefs. I've learned more from The Talking Reef than all forums I have ever belonged to combined. CarmieJo I'm glad your here, Compulsive and IReef IKeeper you guys keep up the good work, although you may have differences of opinions or philosophies both of you still rock and it's very obvious, your passionate about this hobby and you guys bring a lot of knowledge to this forum. Thx.
    Don't sweat the small stuff...

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    Wow I was extremely disappointed upon reading the updates to this thread over the last 24 hrs. I felt similar feelings as when I read reefcentrals depressing website of people lashing out at one another. I feel that we should be looking out in the best interest of our specimens. Many well know experts have expressed there well found studies on this thread and should be respected for doing so, and should be thanked for taking the time for doing so. I would like to say more..... yet my mother always taught me if I have nothing more nice to say then say nothing at all. This is not an emo forum like reefcentral...

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    Curious Reefer
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    I have read this thread and must disagree with the tank size for tangs. Although the larger the better is the census, there are other factors to play also. A smaller tank in volume but longer in length would be a better tank. Fish like to swim in straight line not up and down. So a 120H that is only 4 feet long would be worse than a 110L that is 6 feet long. Although I do not personaly believe in purchasing any tangs over 6 inches for a tank under 265 gallons.

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    Apprentice sunny d polyp's Avatar
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    tang size...

    I can say one thing for sure, once my tangs reach 6 inches they have already had a change in venue. The problem is they eat like hogs and go from zig zagging to comatose and nothing in between. I never use to keep tangs (except a sailfin) because of the size of my tanks, 20/gal, 46/gal bowfront and a 75/gal. I started to have an hair algae problem and even 50 snails couldn't keep up with it until I bought a Scopas and a Powder Blue and within 2 weeks I do not have even a strand. Luckaly I do have a good home for the tangs when they reach no larger than 6 inches (family members in the hobby) and I can still visit them.
    Don't sweat the small stuff...

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