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Thread: Show Idea: Vodka Dosing

  1. #1
    Apprentice Ann Marie's Avatar
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    Show Idea: Vodka Dosing

    No, not for us; for our tanks.

    I've heard a lot of discussion about dosing a tank with vodka. I haven't researched it at all but would love to learn some information about it.

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    SPS Reefer / TR Admin lReef lKeeper's Avatar
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    that is a great idea, i think it would be great for a roundtable type of show or podcast. there are a lot of people out there with both good and bad experience with dosing vodka. i was actually thinking about it, but the cons seem to outweigh the pros, from the reading i have done on it.
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    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    I have thought about it too. I found that the evidence is anecdotal and not supported by controlled studies. There are also the occasional horror stories of people wiping out their tank with a bacterial bloom. Given all of this I decided that I would not risk it. Here is a good article. The Old Becomes New, Yet Again: Sandbeds and Vodka - Part II by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com Eric is a research scientist and one of the leaders of our hobby. I really respect his opinions.
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    Grand Master Reefer Amphibious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ann Marie
    No, not for us; for our tanks.
    Oh darn. Here I thought I’d be able to have a cocktail with you.

    I don’t know, dosing vodka (Grey Goose being my favorite indulgence) seems like such a waste. I suppose we should learn more about it.

    Dick
    Amphibious

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    Amblyeleotris randalli commonly, Randall's Goby.

  5. #5
    Grand Master Reefer Amphibious's Avatar
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    Carmie, once again, points us to an article written by a coral scientist and our friend, Eric Borneman, that sets the argument “to dose or not to dose vodka” into it’s proper place. To quote Eric’s final word on the subject...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Borneman
    To me, having a 6" deep sand bed for eight years with no measurable nitrate or phosphate and no regular or intentional water changes says something. I have outstanding coral growth and great coloration. In fact, my tank has never looked better. I'm keeping the vodka for myself.
    That’s good enough for me. In fact Eric delivers a vodka recipe I’m going to try. So, we can have that cocktail after all.

    Dick
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    Amblyeleotris randalli commonly, Randall's Goby.

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    Apprentice Ann Marie's Avatar
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    I haven't done much reading on the vodka dosing for my reef tank (I'm partial to Kettle One) because I'm kept pretty busy with my seahorses. Also. what I seem to be doing is working pretty well (now that I've got that damn bobbit worm out).

    Thanks for the link to the article, I'm looking forward to reading it.

    Heck, Amphibious I'll have a cocktail with you anytime!

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    Grand Master Reefer Amphibious's Avatar
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    Thank you. Perhaps at MACNA in Orlando??? Talk the hubby into making a family vacation out of it. It’s being held on the Disney property.
    Amphibious

    Good Luck comes to those who research and prepare.


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    Amblyeleotris randalli commonly, Randall's Goby.

  8. #8
    Our Brotha Down Unda
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    ive done some rounds on the vodka carbon additive research. i haven't read EB's take on it yet . thanks i'll have a read latter

    I was in the against camp for this practice just for the record. id much rather drink it than dose it



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    Curious Reefer Paul_PSU's Avatar
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    I have been vodka dosing for over a year and a half. No blooms, no crashes, just low N and P. If you up the dosage slooooowly you shouldn't have any problems with blooms. I also have a 5" sand bed in my display tank. I agree it's not for everyone but it has worked like a charm for me.

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    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Hi Paul and to TR!

    I'd love to hear more about your tank and your experience with vodka dosing.
    Carmie


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  11. #11
    Assistant Moderator rayme07's Avatar
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    Hi Paul Welcome to TR.
    Ray or Raymond
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    Raymond's 30 gallon tank
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    Curious Reefer Paul_PSU's Avatar
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    I have a 75 gallon DT with a 30 gallon sump. I run a skimmer and carbon in the sump. I also have live rock and a 5" sand bed in the DT. The system was originally a FOWLR using *gulp* tap water. When I switched to a reef I kept the sand and rock. I purchased a RO/DI unit and did a 75% water change. My Nitrates to start off with were 180-200. I initially built a DIY sulphur denitrator and it got my nitrates down to 40-50 in no time but I really hated all the constant issues with tuning it, cleaning it, degassing it. I then ventured down the VSV path but had issue with the sugar part of it. I went to straight vodka (for the tank and myself ) and my nitrates dropped to zero. The phosphates were a struggle initially but with GFO they also came down. I took GFO off line a few months ago and my nitrates are still in the .03-.05 range depending on feeding. I am dosing 4ml twice a day for a total of 8ml per day since I feed pretty heavy. I started my dosing at .4ml and went up .2ml every week and continually tested. I will put up some before and after pics tonight or tomorrow.

    Paul

  13. #13
    Assistant Moderator rayme07's Avatar
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    Very cool, I cant wait for the pics.
    Ray or Raymond
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    Curious Reefer Paul_PSU's Avatar
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    OK, here are a couple pics of the tank.

    when it was FOWLR and nitrates were 180-200:



    when I was battling bryopsis:



    A pic of the DIY sulphur denitrator. Those are DIY GFO and carbon reactors that I ended up scrapping:



    Tanks is starting to look better here:



    a couple months ago: left and right side:





    I get some recent shots up tomorrow.

  15. #15
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Your tank looks really nice. Is that the same purple tang in the FOWLR and reef?
    Carmie


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    Curious Reefer Paul_PSU's Avatar
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    Thanks. Yep I've had him for about 5 1/2 year. He is the only fish from that setup. Others I had I gave away since they were not reef safe. I had a blue hippo also but he outgrew the 75 and I had to find him a bigger home.

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    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    That's cool!
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  18. #18
    Our Brotha Down Unda
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    so you dose 8mls per day


    what research helped you decide to take this route bud?



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    Curious Reefer Paul_PSU's Avatar
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    Yep 8ml total per day. Mainly a posts by a couple of guys over at RC that had been dosing and then Eric over at Glassboxdesigns was dosing the vsv mixture. I was at 6ml total per day but bumped up my feedings so increase the v also.

    edit * I missed the second part of the question. I have a total of 105 gallons (75 DT + 30 sump).
    Last edited by Paul_PSU; 11-13-2009 at 08:26 AM.

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    Assistant Moderator rayme07's Avatar
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    Great looking tank paul it has come a long ways. Thanks for the pics
    Ray or Raymond
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  21. #21
    Our Brotha Down Unda
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    yeah i edited that bit due to remembering you gave the volume at the start of the thread



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    Curious Reefer Paul_PSU's Avatar
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    They say you are to keep increasing the dosage till your N and P are zero and then cut it in half and that is your ongoing maintenance dosage. When I finally hit zero I increased my feeding so had to increase my dosage. It all depends on each individual tank. I have read people with 100 gallon system volume that their daily dose is 4ml and some are 6ml and some 10. So the main thing is you have to find the dosage that works for your system. I know some people would come into the threads and say "well so and so has 100 gallon system and so do I so I am going to dose what he doses" and then boom he gets an algae bloom.

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    greetings
    we vsv dose and are pleased with the results. As background, we have a 210 gal mixed reef with a 125 refugium. The second tank is a 125 with a 55 gal refugium also a mixed reef but with more softies the the 210 has. Our third tank is a 55 and is our qt tank. Needless to say, we have lots of saltwater here
    the recipe we use is for 500 ml vodka, unflavored and I get the cheapest I can buy. 50 ml of vinegar, the white kind and 1 Tbs of sugar.
    Because I am a sucker for those little fish faces begging, we tend to feed well (read OVER feed)

    One thing you will notice is you don't have to scrap the glass as often. Because I use the magnets almost everyday, there is very little to actually have to scale or scrape.

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    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Hi Chris, to TR!
    Carmie


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