Pats 40 breeder :)

[Skurvey Dog]

Glad you had a quick recovery with your tank. I liked the pepperments, but when you have a large volume of rock, they really take advantage of it. :-) I only saw my here and there.

Hey Rhonda :-) It seems when there is so much going on, time just seems to pass by and keeps on rolling. I finally got all the electrical work done that I had been saying I wanted to do for over a year. Lol So I understand completely.

[Pat]

my copper band died this morning

cant figure out why
only thing added to the tank was phosban as im battling ha

[V]

thats abit odd, sorry to hear that bud. ,Let us know your findings, if any.

[Pat]

it is i put the phoszorb in in the morning then by the evening he wasn't acting normal tested water, took phoszorb out by the next morning he was belly up

[V]

ive never seen PO4 remover aid in a death before. Unless die back was the catalyst for toxic shock from something?

[Pat]

i have no clue
everything is doing really well the new fish and shrimp are happy, all the corals are good

[rayme07]

Im sorry to hear about the loss of your copper band Pat.

[CarmieJo]

Copper bands are very difficult to get established. They come from areas where it is not unusual to catch fish with cyanide and a partial dose can cause them to die once they are in your tank.

[V]

oh, i thought this was an older fish. How long you had it?

[Pat]

bout 3-4 weeks now

[Coreyz]

Yep I bought two clowns and ended up with three by accident. Day two one clown died, day three second clown died, day four third clown died... I am sure it was because of cyanide harvesting from the Australian reef unfortunately. That was after two days acclimation in the sellers tank after he received them.

[V]

No offence bud, & im sorry for your loss, but thats a pretty bold statement.
We're a significantly developed nation that regardless of ease of catchment, wouldn't resort to such barbaric catchment methods. Those practices are restricted to economicly disadvantaged or unrestricted policy driven pacific island nations in our region.

There are only about 50max full time operators & a handful restricted operators that operate on the reef. All of which are regulated & monitored constantly & will also be advised of areas that are protected zones to minimise stock depletions. Its a serious business down here, & as such some of the largest institutions both private & regulatory regarding the marine parks are literally on the reefs door step. Of course you will get the odd poachers as with any country, but you still have to send it through the supply networks to make it to your shores, to which anything significant we monitor closely as well. There are only 2 airports for offshore travel in QLD, Brisbane & Cairns so the stakes if your doing it illegally are greater yet again. Not to mention catching by hand with nets or herding equipment with such abundance on the reefs is a relativity easy approach.

We do have scattered reefs on the west coast, to which given the distance know little about, however still, ive never heard of a single report filter down through the industry of any practise coming from within our own boarders as long as ive been acquiring livestock.

[Amphibious]

Copper Banded Butterfly fish are NOT an easy fish to acclimate to captivity and should only be housed in large, well established aquariums. Large, because they are very timid fish in the beginning, also because they are not easy to get to eat our FOREIGN food items and can pick at the LR for preferred items until they adapt to captive life, which may take months.

I often use the analogy of our aquariums being like a closet. If I’m not mistaken, Pat, you have a 40 breeder. That is not only too small in size but also not deep enough. I’d liken your forty breeder to a shoebox as it pertains to a CB. They need ROOM to roam. Drs F & S suggest a 50 gal as being minimum. I challenge that size as being too small. Scott Michael, author of “Reef Aquarium Fishes” suggests 75 gals as being minimum. I’d say 75 being an absolute minimum, with 100 gal being a better minimum. And always well established, with a year being minimum.

As far as cyanide poisoning being a concern, I’d guess that not to be a factor. While collecting with cyanide is still being used, it is used by unscrupulous collectors. The practice is banned in most areas and Islanders are being taught the value of net caught fish and the damage that using any poison on their reef is destroying their livelihood. Exporters will stop buying from known cyanide collectors as their continued business success depends on drug free fish.

Making the claim that certain unexplained fish deaths is because of "cyanide harvesting” is pure conjecture. Without a biopsy being done, by a qualified scientist, you cannot possibly be sure. So don’t be hasty in passing judgement on Australian collectors, or any other for that matter. They are the most regulated marine collectors in the world. The Aussie authorities are very aware of the total value of their precious Great Barrier Reef.

Remember, or learn for the first time, all wild caught marine specimens go through a gauntlet getting from their home reef to your aquarium. They are handled through multiple facilities, NOT fed anything for days even weeks to clear their intestinal tracts, kept under crowded conditions in less than favorable holding tanks by people that often only want them to move to the next facility so they can get paid. They are bagged in a tea cup of SW, of questionable quality, and shipped under less than desirable conditions for long hours (24 to 48 hours being common). Is it any wonder why you can’t just explain away a death to "cyanide harvesting”? And, that treatment continues through and often including your LFS. It’s no wonder we have “unexplained” deaths shortly after buying our newly found “prize” fish.

Finally, this is exactly why we, each one of us individually, must raise our personal bar of responsibility and become “Responsible Reefers”. That doesn’t just mean giving our charges good food. It also means, among many other things, while we stand in our LFS and eye that Copper Banded Butterfly we want soooo bad, to realize we cannot keep it in a 40 gal breeder (or whatever size tank under a while established 100 gal) and make the “Responsible Reefers" decision to walk away without it. You must simply do your homework before hand!!!

I ask each and every reefer, newbie and “expert” alike, if you have not read my article, ”Nine Simple Rules to Healthier Fish" please do so. It will help you make wiser decisions when purchasing prized fishes. You can read it here - Nine simple Rules

All marine fish and coral should be considered “prized” in my humble opinion. If spending your money isn’t enough to consider them “prized” then consider where they come from. Most are still “wild caught” off the reefs around the world. It should be evident to anyone interested in keeping a captive reef there is not an infinite supply!!!


Dick

[Coreyz]

Sorry V I meant no offense bud. That is great to know that they are so strict on the reef down there.

[CarmieJo]

Sorry, I should have not jumped to the conclusion that the problem was cyanide. SE Asia is the place where cyanide is still used despite the fact that it is killing the reefs that the fishermen depend upon. Many groups are working with fishermen to educate them and the incidence of cyanide use is declining but it is still not uncommon. Copperband butterflies are commonly collected in the Philippines and Indonesia and there is a chance that they will have been exposed to cyanide. If I were to buy one I would look for one from Australia.

Cory, as far as the clowns go the best way to get hardy fish that are adjusted to life in a glass box is to buy tank raised. Almost all varieties of clowns are readily available as tank raised. They are used to eating prepared foods and should do well for you.

[V]

no offence taken. Instead of just skimming the post i saw that & you actually got my full attention..lol

[Pat]

Dick you should write a book hehe

[V]

He's just keeping you morally attune. & slapping me for not converting your stone age conversions..

[Pat]

ahahahahaahahahahaha

[Pat]

picked up my new flame hawk fish, and was given a engineer goby

[rayme07]

Cool Congrats on the new additions. Do you have any pics.

[Coreyz]

Pics !

[Pat]

will upload some tomorrow night hehe