President Obama you scare me, too.

[Iron E]

Hey those online degrees are really cool!

But seriously folks, I liken it to the lint you find in the pocket of an old pair of jeans. Or even, an old cardboard box that has been emptied and reused a dozen times. If you get real close, you can almost smell the candle-wax and incense, almost even, hear the drums....

Tom

[V]

ironman, post me what your smoken over there would you

[Iron E]

Shirley, you're choking! I mean, well ... you know what I mean!

Tom

[V]

u got a quick mind, ill give you that - albeit abstract

[Iron E]

Takes one to know one!

[badger]

Only time will tell

[Iron E]

Aho!

[Carty]

Obama is ridiculous

A leader that respects his audience as a mature and reasonable one will appeal to their logic rather than their emotion. Even if the news is grim, he will realize that it needs to be said so that the people can be informed. A leader that doesn't respect his audience will do the opposite, stick to playing off the publics emotions and be vary vague with promises of small words like "hope" and "change"

why not explain how you plan on accomplishing these things instead of constantly saying it will come

"I use emotion for many and reserve reason for few"
-Adolf Hitler

“[People in small towns] get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy towards people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”
— Obama, at a San Francisco fundraiser

How can a leader seize control quickly and efficiently?? appeal to the youth
It's clear that Obama's entire campaign was aimed at the young Americans that are not politically educated yet...

When electing a leader, the number one rule is "watch their actions, not their lips"

If only everyone in the country knew this...

“No matter what the costs, no matter what the consequences, John McCain seems determined to carry out a third Bush term…”
— Barack Obama

if anyone remembers the primaries from 8 years ago.. Bush and McCain do not have a polite history, McCain openly stated his distaste for the plans in Iraq along with many other Bush policies... unfortunately, 72% of first time voters chose Obama... I would be willing to be 95% of those voters didn't research the truth of Obama's statement

But surely everyone should know Bush's policies... that is how America has been for 8 years.. why didn't anyone notice Obama was lying???

"Make the lie big, make it simple, repeat it enough, and eventually people will believe"
-Adolf Hitler

January 2nd, 1996, Obama began his under-handed crusade for the senate. With a crack team of lawyers, he challenged hundreds of vote petitions and managed to eliminate all of his fellow Democrats from the ballot. One fellow candidate was Alice Palmer. Up to that point, she had been grooming Obama to succeed her once she retired. Not willing to wait, Obama took matters into his own hands and denied her the right to run for her own seat. Alice Palmer is the same woman who essentially launched his political career. Apparently, Obama didn’t trust the voters to “discover” a great man in that election, so he chose for them.

Not to be considered a racist, this next statement is purely fact

Obama has made a career out of embracing his “blackness” and African American heritage. His first book, was based entirely on that idea. There’s just one problem: Obama isn’t an African American

Obama is 50% caucasian, 43.75% arab, and 6.25% black. According to federal law, an American citizen must be at least 1/8th, or 12.5% of a particular race to be considered a member of that race.

Someone once asked me how Obama could become a socialist. I replied by asking how he could not. Obama has been surrounded by marxists his entire life.

His father was a communist. His mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, was a communist. Obama explicitly admits to seeking out marxist professors in his autobiographical work and attending socialist meetings. His close friends, like Bill Ayers, the former terrorist, all hold distinctly socialist views. Obama had the most left-wing voting record in the entire senate for 2007. He was even more radical than senators who were openly socialist.



Pop Quiz

The nation was in shambles. A previous ruler had led the country into an unnecessary war, the economy was failing, and a sense of depression filled the air. Then, a new leader emerged. He was a powerful speaker, offering hope, change, and a fix to the economy. He wrote two books about his experiences and used his literary work to propel him to success. He was an open christian with some muslim friends. He called for unity and considered himself an advocate of peace. Some of his political opponents cast him as naive and inexperienced. He also had alot of radical ties, but the media, and ultimately the voters, were willing to overlook that.

Who is he?

Adolf Hitler... funny, I bet you thought it was Obama

[THEJRC]

Why does everyone blame bush you have to remember there is congress. I don't know why just about everyone has to blame things on people just like obama has been doing to bush just to make himself look better its time to forget about what happened in the past and think about the future. Also the only reason gas went up was because of Katrina and all the other crazy disasters that happened it was the oil company's jacking up the prices not bush
Respectfully
Raymond

Bear in mind, it's nearly impossible to see immediate results from a presidency, you wont see effects until late year 2. I'm not a fan of this administration but I will give credit where credit is due...

Obama is active in the afghanistan situation and that is a good thing

While north korea and others continue to develop long range nuclear missles that are in fact capable of reaching the US Obama cut the missile defense budget reducing our level of coverage... this is a bad thing

Gitmo... scares me

Iraq... time will tell

Coincedentally, if you want to rate presidencies on rising prices myself as a smoker has just as much authority to gripe about the recent changes as any driver did through the last presidency.

We will see what unfolds, in less than 2 years we'll see a change in congress (which by the way is the other half of the equation, it's never all just "bush's fault" or "Obamas fault") and next term for presidency will most likely flip to republican. Ahh the good ole ebb and flow of politics.

[saltaddict]

Bear in mind, it's nearly impossible to see immediate results from a presidency, you wont see effects until late year 2. I'm not a fan of this administration but I will give credit where credit is due...

Obama is active in the afghanistan situation and that is a good thing

While north korea and others continue to develop long range nuclear missles that are in fact capable of reaching the US Obama cut the missile defense budget reducing our level of coverage... this is a bad thing

Gitmo... scares me

Iraq... time will tell

Coincedentally, if you want to rate presidencies on rising prices myself as a smoker has just as much authority to gripe about the recent changes as any driver did through the last presidency.

We will see what unfolds, in less than 2 years we'll see a change in congress (which by the way is the other half of the equation, it's never all just "bush's fault" or "Obamas fault") and next term for presidency will most likely flip to republican. Ahh the good ole ebb and flow of politics.

I understand everyone's need to gripe about the price of "whatever" but again one chooses how much of such items to consume. It is your American right to make that choice.
It will not be your right to choose how you are cared for when Obama gets his way with health care.
Right now the majority of Congress is Democrat so go figure how our country will be even if the next presidential election produces a Rep. THE DAMAGE WILL BE DONE.

Why does Gitmo scare you?j I totally agreed with Gitmo and was very disappointed when in his first days shut it down as to say that "Bush was wrong and the poor suspects".

Our government is the back bone of our justice system and frankly our justice system stinks.

Two NFL football players:
One was convicted of raising and fighting Pit Bull (DOGS not humans) and he received several years in prison.
The other was convicted of driving drunk in his Bentley in the wee morning hours and hit and killed a road worker who was 56 with a wife and children and he received 30 days in jail.
I am not into abusing animals but come on - DOGS ARE WORTH MORE THAN HUMANS IN THIS COUNTRY!

[THEJRC]

I understand everyone's need to gripe about the price of "whatever" but again one chooses how much of such items to consume. It is your American right to make that choice.
It will not be your right to choose how you are cared for when Obama gets his way with health care.
Right now the majority of Congress is Democrat so go figure how our country will be even if the next presidential election produces a Rep. THE DAMAGE WILL BE DONE.

Why does Gitmo scare you?j I totally agreed with Gitmo and was very disappointed when in his first days shut it down as to say that "Bush was wrong and the poor suspects".

Our government is the back bone of our justice system and frankly our justice system stinks.

Two NFL football players:
One was convicted of raising and fighting Pit Bull (DOGS not humans) and he received several years in prison.
The other was convicted of driving drunk in his Bentley in the wee morning hours and hit and killed a road worker who was 56 with a wife and children and he received 30 days in jail.
I am not into abusing animals but come on - DOGS ARE WORTH MORE THAN HUMANS IN THIS COUNTRY!

he he one of the reasons I love this forum, even when discussing politics it's good points and counterpoints. on the right to consume I agree completely (and coincedentally still smoke!). It's one of the reasons I'm not against sales tax.

As far as Gitmo scaring me it wasnt the decision it's the execution, could have been done much better though it's of course still being done so who knows.

on the justice system... all I can say is

HEAR HEAR!!!

[saltaddict]

Hey THEJRC - I am glad you didn't take my post personal and it was not just about the consumption of cigs, it was everything including gas and so on.

I hope no one gets offended here as we are entitled to our own opinions.

[PhotoJohn]

To Dick,

As long as I have my guns I am not afraid

lol

[Amphibious]

BUT... How long will we be able to own our guns??? Got this in an e-mail.

"BARACK OBAMA AND CONGRESS PUSHING
THROUGH BANS ON GUNS AND GUN SHOWS!
The Second Amendment is under assault as never before -- and the "anti-gun" forces could win this time...

Unless YOU AND I take action NOW to stop them!"

You can read lots more here - Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms

A lively debate when we stay on track.

Dick

[rayme07]

The best thing to do to stop obama and other anti gun groups from taking our guns away is to join the The National Rifle Association (NRA) or any other gun group. They have worked hard to keep our second amendment free and will do it for a long time if us gun owners keep on contributing and supporting and if that time comes we need to fight . I am a proud member and my dad is a life member and I will be damned if the liberal anti gun government can take away my second amendment. I'm sorry for the french and if I offended anyone.

https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

NRA

[Carty]

taking guns away is the dumbest idea I have ever heard haha I live in an area where it is required by law that every household own a gun (imagine that, georgia... haha)

we also have one of the lowest crime rates in the country... would you rob a house if you knew for a fact that the owner had a gun?

[R. Deschain]

I came here to read about fish stuff, and ran smack into the middle of a full out political debate!

I look at it this way, things are never as good as they seem and things are never as bad as they seem. What seems absolutely 100% right to you seems 100% wrong to someone else. There is no point in arguing because we are all at some level entrenched in our belief systems. We fall prey to the logical fallacy of confirmation bias to substantiate our world view, and we tend to aggregate around people with similar views.

That's fine, its the way we are wired. But that is why we need a political process to achieve progress through compromise.

That is also why we need things like reef tanks. We need neutral common ground on which to relate to each other. Otherwise we'd all be at each others throats!

[SaltyDawg]

Wait untill the government gets the bright idea to leave the 2nd ammendment alone and make posessing ammo a felony. The flood gate has been opened on so many levels. there are so many stupid laws being created every day. Is it ever going to stop? Probably not. We are not as free as we would like to believe. If freedom means we can do what we want as long as the government says it's ok, I would like to decide for myself weather or not I smoke,eat trans-fat,drive a huge suv,own guns.etc. Is my 4 year old going to be able to choose what she wants to be or will the govt. tell her where to go to school and what to study. It seem like it's coming to that

[R. Deschain]

Who is he?

Adolf Hitler... funny, I bet you thought it was Obama

We have officially proven Godwin's Law!!

From Wikipedia:

Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1] is an informal adage coined by Mike Godwin in 1990. The adage states: "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[2][3]

Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread reductio ad Hitlerum form.

The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued,[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.

Although in one of its early forms Godwin's Law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[5] the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion: electronic mailing lists, message boards, chat rooms, and more recently blog comment threads and wiki talk pages.

[THEJRC]

Truth be told I hesitated for quite a while before posting my first post on this thread simply due to the nature of politics and emotional debate... but for the record...

should my right to bear arms dissapear so will my citizenship, I'm proud to be born american and will continue to be proud to have been born american, however should america lose sight on it's values there's no telling which "can" I might be proud to "be presently".

a few notable things that I've noticed (bear in mind this is my opinion and experience)....

those who I've met that support the bulk of the democrats current goals have never worked 100% for what they own, some due to general laziness and sense of entitlement and some due to other problems that I cant blame them for.

I have yet to meet a business owner small or large, existing or former, that beleives in the current democratic views

Obama might scare me but the entire judicial branch and congresses lack of direction scares me just as much if not more

Regardless, things will change again later... they will always change that is one of the greatest things about our wonderful country. We're not locked into a dictatorship (regardless of how the hardcores on either side might present it when the opposition rules). While damage may be more difficult to repair it's never a lost cause.

and the final gimmie... despite my disdain in the current government I will once again give credit where credit is due, the Iraq situation seems to be doing much better and continued offense in Afghanistan is proof of goal, whether execution continues to follow a good track only time will tell.... On that note, has anyone noticed that they have pushed several extra defensive missile batteries to hawaii in the last two days, something about intelligence expecting a missile test from N. Korea.... maybe gas prices (yes and my ciggie prices) and medical benefits are a smaller concern....

[Amphibious]

What a great debate!!! Everyone is keeping their cool and actually debating. I'm sooo proud of all of you. A few comments from the old guy... (that would be me)

taking guns away is the dumbest idea I have ever heard haha I live in an area where it is required by law that every household own a gun (imagine that, georgia... haha)

we also have one of the lowest crime rates in the country... would you rob a house if you knew for a fact that the owner had a gun?

One only has to look at the events unfolding in Iran. The good people of Iran are almost without a weapon to fight a corrupt and repressive government. But what they have, the ability to demonstrate, they are using. It isn't legal for them to do that but, they are and some (like Neda) are paying with their life. For what??? FREEDOM!!! Something we take for granted. Only the militia in Iran have guns. Can you imagine the difference if the populace of Iran owned guns? They live in a police state run by a guy who claims to have been appointed to his leadership role by God. Give me a break!!! We, you, live in a free country (at least so far) where we are free to elect a leader (getting good or bad). And yet those very freedoms, freedoms men and women of all races, creeds and ethnicity, died for, are being stripped away slowly but surely. I say, "Wake up America" and wake up soon. If you don't, you will not recognize America for what it was but what it is becoming. In 2010, "We the People" will speak out load once again. That will be an interesting vote to watch unfold. My guess is, there will be a changing of leadership in both houses of Congress. Neither party is without fault here but, the true color of the Dems is shinning brightly right now and"We the People" are not happy.

I came here to read about fish stuff, and ran smack into the middle of a full out political debate!

That's why it is in the "General" forum. Any topic not fish related. Welcome to the debate where rational people speak their mind, without flaming.

Wait untill the government gets the bright idea to leave the 2nd ammendment alone and make posessing ammo a felony. The flood gate has been opened on so many levels. there are so many stupid laws being created every day. Is it ever going to stop? Probably not. We are not as free as we would like to believe. If freedom means we can do what we want as long as the government says it's ok, I would like to decide for myself weather or not I smoke,eat trans-fat,drive a huge suv,own guns.etc. Is my 4 year old going to be able to choose what she wants to be or will the govt. tell her where to go to school and what to study. It seem like it's coming to that

If we snooze we loose, Lori. I hope and pray we wake up and stop the madness. What is happening now is laws are being crammed through Congress with out even being read by the people we elected to lead this Nation. That's irrational and STUPID!!! Who do they work for??? "We the People", that's who!!! We the People are coming for them and a bunch are going to be fired!!! Gear up for a hot election in November of 2010. And those of you that don't vote, you are truly a sad group! Look at the turnout in Iran and Iraq, 80%!!! That's what oppressed people do when given the freedom to vote. Too bad in Iran it's all for naught. I pray for the people of Iran to over power the idiots in power!

To THEJRC: Thank you for posting your thoughts. I agree. (I got tired of typing)

Dick

[THEJRC]

To THEJRC: Thank you for posting your thoughts. I agree. (I got tired of typing)

Dick

I see how it is....

Did anybody notice the tobacco law was signed in.... so use of "light" in branding is now banned... I'm wondering what my standard is going to be called now... Camel Minus?

[Amphibious]

Or maybe Camel Dung?

That guy is on a roll. why should he stop at tobacco? Alcohol, guns, health care, oil companies, who's next???

[THEJRC]

as I spit coffee on my keyboard...

We need to come up with a business model for exploiting the energy contained within a giggle and a fart so we can capitalize on this "Green bubble" they're creating.... thats where the money is

[Iron E]

The gun issue is very much like the abortion issue in that it provides political advantage for those who support it with the powerful special interest groups involved. The truth of the matter is that anyone that wants a gun of any kind or anyone who wants an abortion, can get one. Given the diversity of our culture, neither of these issues will ever be definitively resolved. It's about greasing the right palms or scratching the right backs.

Personally, I find the whole thing rather silly.

Tom