Gills Turing Black

**Seaboy_HPT** · 06-08-2009, 01:19 AM

I have a sand goby (Valenciennea puellaris) which is semi transparent in color. Its about six months old in a 55 gallon tank with live rock, sand and a few tank mates. Because I can see through the skin, its gills do not look normal. The have some very dark black color on both sides. Some behavior change as well.

I can't seem to identify any disease close to what might cause their gills to go black. Most of the info I can find talks about white spots which it dose not have. See attached Pic.

Can anyone give me some tips on what this might be? This dose not look normal to me.

**Pat** · 06-08-2009, 02:25 AM

has he been eating normal, acting normal ? what are your tank para.?

**lance** · 06-08-2009, 03:29 AM

I would try to contact Matt Wittenrich about it look him up on a search engine.

lance

**PhotoJohn** · 06-08-2009, 01:26 PM

you could try a shot fresh water dip, if it is a parasite that should kill it. but it could always kill your fish if he is week as well so more information is probably needed.

**CarmieJo** · 06-08-2009, 04:37 PM

What behavior changes are you seeing?

**Skurvey Dog** · 06-08-2009, 06:50 PM

Sorry to hear about the fish's declining health. When did you start noticing any changes and what were they? Also, is his breathing affected by the coloration. What are your current water parameters? Are you showing any traces of amonia?

**Seaboy_HPT** · 06-10-2009, 02:00 PM

Not sure about when this started, it’s been a very slow progression, over a month or longer. At first I thought is maybe just the color of his internal organs since he is kind of transparent. It’s defiantly something wrong since he is acting funny.

Behavior change: he spends most of the day outside his cave, not at the top of the tank but about mid way against the glass facing up. He still eats whenever food is dropped into the tank but his belly looks a little thin. Swims sort of hunched over a little bit like the Concord Jet. He doesn’t seem to sift through the sand anymore like he used to. Breathing is a little faster but not gasping for air. Doesn’t seem to be afraid of anyone who comes near him like he used to even putting your hand right on the glass dose not react. I just noticed him today darting and hitting the lid of the tank, so my though it possibly parasites, but it could also be pain or lack of O2 if his gills are damaged. The other though is possibly an ammonia burn. Since he lives basically at the bottom of the tank right were the other fish poop a lot.

Ammonia check out today at 0.0 The only thing that is high is the Nitrates at 50. Temp is 74F. Tank has sump, skimmer, chiller and UV setup. Live rock, live sand, 4 years old with cleanup crew of mainly shrimp and snails. Tank mate is a yellow tang, and 2 small cowfish (which will be getting a bigger tank as soon as I can come up with the $$$) Since cowfish eat a lot and poop a lot, it falls to the bottom of the sand where he makes him sand burrows. I am also wondering if he got something that way since he normally sifts through the sand all day.

Should I try a fresh water dip? Medication? Any ideas whats wrong with him??

**Skurvey Dog** · 06-10-2009, 06:51 PM

Hmmmmm.... not too sure what to say about that SeaB. Just from reading your last post, you need to do a water change and get those nitrates down. Does the YT seem totally unaffected and in perfect health? What little I know about the cowfish/box fishes, I believe I have read that they can have a tendancy of emitting toxins to a system. I could be way off base here. Maybe it's only with death, I just can't remember. How was his weight/figure a month ago before his declining health? The reason I ask to to see if he is getting enough to eat. Is his gill that same black coloration on both sides or does one seem more affected than the other. Does he have any other noticeable changes to the rest of him? Spots, dusting of color, lines, anything.

The only time I have seen black gills in the wild is on some local shrimp caught very late Summer- early Fall and that is caused by a fungus.

I would start doing a water change and get the quality of water into a lower reading for the nitrates. That will give others some time to scope out your post and see if they've seen anything like this before.

V · 06-10-2009, 07:32 PM

a goby expert would be the go. who do we have on site with such specialised knowedge guys?

maybe ampage?

im tipping maybe hydrogen sulfide / CO2 effects but im definately no expert as it looks normal to me. If it didn't have other bahavioural issues noted i would have said it was the thickening of the gill fibers through maturity or sedimentry density

**Seaboy_HPT** · 06-12-2009, 12:42 AM

Hydrogen sulfide/ Co2 effect, Thickening of Gill Fibers? Sedimentary Density? Can you explain a little more what these are?

I don’t know if I need a "goby expert" although it would be nice. I suspect whatever is happening is not limited to just gobies but who knows at this point. All the other fish are fine. The yellow tank is in perfect condition fat and healthy as can be, even some of the mysis when I try to feed the cows.

As for toxins from the cows I would probably rule that out for several reasons. I am well aware cowfish can emit poison into the water but from the cowfish / boxfish sits I have been to, the general feeling is very rare, only happens under extreme defensive situations. If this were to occur, it would be so strong that everything in the tank would die including the cowfish. In the wild it's an effective defense since the cowfish can swim away. In a tank, it’s unknowingly committing fish-icide. However, they do poop A LOT! About the dia of a mouse cable. That seems a more likely toxin. Maybe a temp amonia spike but it tests at 0. normally.

V · 06-12-2009, 09:06 AM

a quick search for a randy holmes farley take on those subjects would be far better at explaining it.

fibre thickening & sand density comes with age. not to much to expand on that really.

what bugs me is your other tank mates. they are far more prone to diseases & paracites -which doesn't add up at all.

cow poop doesn't exactly ring any common alarm bells, but that doesn;t mean anything. The are big eaters, so a prob a big contributer to your high nitrates, & hence why i through the idea of sulfate & what not as a possible side effect

**saxman** · 06-14-2009, 12:47 AM

the fish is a sand sifter, so it's quite possible there are contaminants (such as hydrogen sulfide, which is black)and/or parasites in the substrate that are remaining in/staining its gills. it might also be that the type of substrate (grain size) you have is too large/rough for this fish's gills and is injuring them.