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Thread: McEuin Family Upgrade

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    McEuin Family Upgrade

    Ok, so we have gotten some experience after a year of keeping the 20g nano. The main experience is we need something that looks good on the outside as it does on the inside and need more room but not that much. So I am looking to have a new tank built. The tank is in a corner that would nicely house a 24x24x?h tank. I know there are cubes that are h=24 but a tank builder said 24 takes quite a bit of power on lighting to hit the floor as well as requiring thicker acrylic were if I did h=20 lighting would be ok with DSB to the bottom and cost less on acrylic. He is thinking 3/8" for h20 and 1/2" for h24. (ok if you haven't caught on h=height just in case). Anyway the corner is up in the loft overlooking the great room. So I am thinking have it built with the overflow in the corner so it has 2 nice viewing sides. I will custom build the cab 3/4" ply so the base is 30 to 36" high. Will check asthetics of that soon. I will have all equip in the cab (vs HOT) so it doesn't look like trash as now it does and is sitting on a heavy duty 1" MDF microwave cart. After I build the cabinet he will custom build the sump to fit the cabinet. I will make the cab a couple inches extra wide each side. Also I will have the sump on the top side with a supply drawer below. So tell/share thoughts. PS. I used to build kitchen cabs so I will be adapting my knowledge from that and likely put one cross bar going at the mid section mortised with the top flush.

    Questions:
    Can I use the Seaclone HOT Prot Skim as a sump skim by replacing the "piping" to allow in sump placement? Does the PS need to pull from the main tank or can it pull from the sump tank?

    Heater will go in the sump right?

    What is the diff between sump and refug? Can I have a part of the sump be refug for macro's? Guess this will require lighting right?

    Also, phos reactor. Will need to step this up. Right now using HOT Magnum to do this. Will need to replace with something that can work in / with sump. Is this something that should be inline with the sump or work from the sump water? Can I have a reactor do phose and calc in one unit? What would be recommended with the limited space and needed for the tank size which is likely between 50 and 60 gal plus about 10 to 15 in the sump.

    Water changes..... What is the best way to do a water change on a tank this size? Should I have a side pump to pull out/in water? Right now I use my HOT magnum to extract water when doing changes. Do you do water changes into the sump rather than into the main tank?

    New main tank lighting will be T5 and PC. I will likely have a setup of 2T5-1PC-2T5-1PC-2T5 if I can make it fit the hood I build. That will be 165Watts of T5 and 130Watts of PC. Plus a single center mounted moon LED. With 24 Inches of depth it should work. I have found that with my nano their are some things that have grown better once I have put in the PC and look better while my loan Hynophora SPS has done well under the DG Powerchome/UVL AquaSun combo. Don't need no stinking MH. The PC is a 10kK/Actinic. Once I burn through those I will use those as pure actinic only.

    Anyway, I will put a draft pic together soon. Give me thoughts so far though.
    PapaMcEuin
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaMcEuin View Post
    Ok, so we have gotten some experience after a year of keeping the 20g nano. The main experience is we need something that looks good on the outside as it does on the inside and need more room but not that much. So I am looking to have a new tank built. The tank is in a corner that would nicely house a 24x24x?h tank. I know there are cubes that are h=24 but a tank builder said 24 takes quite a bit of power on lighting to hit the floor as well as requiring thicker acrylic were if I did h=20 lighting would be ok with DSB to the bottom and cost less on acrylic. He is thinking 3/8" for h20 and 1/2" for h24. (ok if you haven't caught on h=height just in case). Anyway the corner is up in the loft overlooking the great room. So I am thinking have it built with the overflow in the corner so it has 2 nice viewing sides. I will custom build the cab 3/4" ply so the base is 30 to 36" high. Will check asthetics of that soon. I will have all equip in the cab (vs HOT) so it doesn't look like trash as now it does and is sitting on a heavy duty 1" MDF microwave cart. After I build the cabinet he will custom build the sump to fit the cabinet. I will make the cab a couple inches extra wide each side. Also I will have the sump on the top side with a supply drawer below. So tell/share thoughts. PS. I used to build kitchen cabs so I will be adapting my knowledge from that and likely put one cross bar going at the mid section mortised with the top flush.

    ok, so im going to forget you even spoke then, as im too d@mn drunk to comprihend those words..lol

    Questions:
    Can I use the Seaclone HOT Prot Skim as a sump skim by replacing the "piping" to allow in sump placement? Does the PS need to pull from the main tank or can it pull from the sump tank?
    if your going hang on, without a sump, no, it doesnt have to pull from the sump, cause what sump..lol

    Heater will go in the sump right?

    yes if you have a sump, yes it would. a sump is to hide equiptment, increase total water volume, & put simply, make your life a hell of alot easier than controlling everything from the DT

    What is the diff between sump and refug? Can I have a part of the sump be refug for macro's? Guess this will require lighting right?

    fuge is a safe haven, nothing more. little tiny animals that you dont notice untill you take the time to seriously look at the minor details of your tank generally show in a fuge. to be honest, sections of your DT can become a fuge of sorts, they are safe havens or slower dead spots.
    In the american sence of a fuge, anything that can grow animals & plants alike in a controlled safe environment is a fuge.
    To aussies, a true fuge is twice as big as the DT. But we know what true reefing is all about..lol

    Also, phos reactor. Will need to step this up. Right now using HOT Magnum to do this. Will need to replace with something that can work in / with sump. Is this something that should be inline with the sump or work from the sump water? Can I have a reactor do phose and calc in one unit? What would be recommended with the limited space and needed for the tank size which is likely between 50 and 60 gal plus about 10 to 15 in the sump.

    gal is still alien for me, only cause im no good at converting your age old maths let get the reactor thing under control. ..... a reactor is nothing but a housing in which to flow. example is a typical PO4 reactor- is nothing more than a sack of medium in a womans stocking material in the dirrect flow of something flowing. reactor this & reactor that means sh^t ok. and yes, it can be deployed in the sump

    Water changes..... What is the best way to do a water change on a tank this size? Should I have a side pump to pull out/in water? Right now I use my HOT magnum to extract water when doing changes. Do you do water changes into the sump rather than into the main tank?

    what is a HOT mag. in my years, ive never heard of such things. water changes can literally be done anywhere. having a sump bu very definitgion means the DT will remain constant, and the sump will wear the brunt of the water levels. Typicly id perfor everything in the sump. gives greater flexability not to mention time to reach some sort of an equilibrium before it hit the DT

    New main tank lighting will be T5 and PC. I will likely have a setup of 2T5-1PC-2T5-1PC-2T5 if I can make it fit the hood I build. That will be 165Watts of T5 and 130Watts of PC. Plus a single center mounted moon LED. With 24 Inches of depth it should work. I have found that with my nano their are some things that have grown better once I have put in the PC and look better while my loan Hynophora SPS has done well under the DG Powerchome/UVL AquaSun combo. Don't need no stinking MH. The PC is a 10kK/Actinic. Once I burn through those I will use those as pure actinic only.

    High output T5 with a suplimental household HQI bulb on one side is all you need in most cases. Ity gives the correct ligting with the illusion of the shimmer effect of MH - PC i cant comment on, your ameroican counter paryts will im sure!

    Anyway, I will put a draft pic together soon. Give me thoughts so far though.



    Vquilibrium Productions

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    First draft of cabinet. In old antiquated american inches ;-)
    PapaMcEuin
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    hey swamp rat, include metric if you want propper western help ok...lol

    24 inch high total, is 2 foot. you want 1000 or 1 meter high to start. makes for a great viewing height for the DT



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    So the stand is 76.2 CM high (30 inches) so the top of the tank would be 137 CM (54 inches) . Conversion is 1 inch = 2.5 CM according to some web site. Anyway, part of what I am trying to decide is how high the base needs to be given the drawer and the height of equipment in the sump. If I put my Seaclone 100 PS in the sump then I will need to make the stand at least 4 inches taller. The issue I also contend with is viewing height for children and adults so likely to make it taller. I have noticed a good number of commercially produced stands are 30 inches in the US so maybe I will go with 36 inches which is near your suggestion ( that is 1 US Yard). It also will be dependant on the plywood that I have on hand as well...
    PapaMcEuin
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    Oh, another question. So I guess I would put additives for alk and calc in the sump rather than the DT? Only thing for the DT should be food right?
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    papa, my exclusive suggestion. make your stand 1 meter high standard, most people are not midgits, plus your not creating it so your kids can see clearly - make your tank 24 inches or 2 ft high. then given your talking typical reef setting - you have the standard oz / world spec for reefkeeping.

    Dirrect feeding comes down to the animals you keep.
    if your tank is full of long tentical softies, then shread the intake pump to the DT, if not, target feed your animals, cause depending on how you set your gear up, chances are its differenet for all!



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    Can you explain this one "you have the standard oz / world spec for reefkeeping"
    PapaMcEuin
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    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    This is like speaking Spanglish! I think by standard oz (Aussie)/world he means metric since most of the rest of the world uses this easy 10 base system.

    Having associated with lots of exchange students I now convert on the fly. A meter is about a yard. I'm 5' tall which is 152 cm and my skis (back when I could ski) were 175 cm. A liter is little more than a quart. To roughly go from degrees C to F double it and add 32. From F to C subtract 32 and divide by 2.

    My 54 is basically a 24" (60cm) cube. I have a Solaris and my corals do fine. I think it you used individual reflectors with the T5's and PC's for actinics you would be fine. You can get a bunch of T5's in 24".

    One thing to think about the stand is how tall are you? Will a package that is 5' from floor to lip be too tall for you to work in comfortably? Would you mind standing on a ladder to get in and out of the tank? I have seen very nice displays with tall stands and short stands. I think it actually depends on where you will be viewing it. If you will mostly sit on the couch then a lower stand may be nice. If you are going to be standing in front of the tank a taller stand will work.

    I keep everything stashed in my sump/cabinet. My skimmer is an old school Berlin which sets outside of the sump but in the cabinet. I would almost think you could use the HOT skimmer by hanging it on the sump.

    As V said, a sump is an extra container of water, usually below the level of the tank, that gives you a place to stash equipment and provides additional water volume. A fuge is a refuge from predators. Many people see a fuge as a just place to keep macro algae. I also see it as a nursery for pods and often baby snails. To maximize nurient export it is desirable to have a slower flow through the fuge. You can easily make an area for a fuge just by sectioning off part of your sump. This can be as simple as adding some eggcrate to keep the macro contained. I don't keep any hermits or other perdators in the fuge area of my sump.

    I just run carbon and phosphate remover passively in bags in my sump. This isn't as efficient as running a reactor but it seems to work for me. Hang on to your Magnum (canister filter), I use mine for water polishing.
    Carmie


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    I will likely expect to be on a stool for either the 30' or 36" setup. Mostly it will be viewed standing but my wife is 5'1" and I am 5'6". Not tall but not overly height challenged. I will expect though that my children will take height patterns from me and be quite short until mid teen years and then have a big growth spurt.

    Regarding equipment, I guess I could operate those as HOT and have the sump designed to work in that manner but the issue with the SeaClone is the pump sits relatively high in the tank so the sump level has to be very close to the top. I would prefer to have a pump that will operate at lower levels of the sump. What experience/preferences do you all have with in sump skimmers. The sump will likely be between 15 to 20 gallons.

    Same for the canister filter. What about having the first section of the sump with filtration media of some kind?
    PapaMcEuin
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    can you add an DIY extension piece to drop the pump any?

    skimmers i'll leave to american counter parts for info.

    sorry if i ragged on ya or confuzed you at all last night bud. a few vodka chasers & its pistol pete in the wildwest if you know what i mean

    canister filters can be used for water polishing. add a bag of phozban or activated carbon ect, other than that i would rid the filtration component & just pack it with coral rubble



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    DIY is what I am thinking. Should be able to modify the lines to have it stand in the sump and overflow into a filter bag to eliminate bubbles. I put a bag of phosban in the canister case. The HOT Magnum though is not the best shaped with its design for adding bagged media and phosban is too small to work loose. Goes right through. What does activated carbon do in the saltwater environment?
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    I would just use LS and LR as your filtration. You could have a holder for filter socks in your sump. They would remove the larger debris, can be changed frequently and can be washed in the washing machine. Here is a great DIY by Brian. http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/di...ifference.html
    Carmie


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    Ok, so I have another question for you all. What If I didn't go with acrylic? What do you all have to say about acrylic vs glass?
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    ok, and another think I am looking at. I want the tank to take up most of the corner. That would mean 26" cube instead of 24". So having it custom built is likely the best way no matter what. Here is a pic of the space I want to use. The tank is 24w by 12 deep and I think 18 tall.
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    I would go with acrylic because its more clear to see through and plus its lighter but the bad thing is that it scratches easy. On your tank what about going with a corner tank it may be more expensive but it would take up much of the corner or you could kiddy corner your tank to.
    Ray or Raymond
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    I have thought about that as well. Only thing is a corner tank may maximize front viewing space it will greatly reduce tank size and floor space for critters.
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    Yea you have a point there you could always kiddy corner you tank like I was saying but that might look weird.
    Ray or Raymond
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    What about a bowfront/corner tank? It would maximize viewing area and sq footage for the fish.

    Tom

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    The thought there is finding one that would fit in a 28" corner area. I have done some searches and did not find exactly what would fit without being significantly smaller in space. Also that will create an interesting case on what lighting I use.
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    Well, I have sold several things and have about $130 towards the new tank so far. I have another $300 coming from a work insurance based "Healthly Living" program. Still have some extra crap sitting around to sell and pay for the new tank and materials. Took this pictures of the existing tank this morning.
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    Nice pictures!
    Carmie


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    Ok, so after all the talk and pricing and consideration of where this tank is I have decided to not do this project. Well, it will still be an upgrade but of the 20G instead of from the 20. The tank is situated in the loft above the bedroom which is in a house with a full walkout basement so essentially 3rd floor. After consideration of the amount of weight that a 60 G plus its sump and stand I am going to forgoe that large of a tank. What I am going to do is still replace the stand. To save time I have bought a stand from my LFS and will take it to a local guy that can custom fit a sump in the stand before I place the existing tank on it. I wll get a overflow siphon setup and move the skimmer to the sump and ditch the H.O.T. filter. I will be building my own hood to cram in as many lights as possible. Likely 2 PC's and 4 T5's. Anyway, more to come.
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    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    A sump will be a great addition to your nano!
    Carmie


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    Ok, so I am now waiting on getting a $300 gift card from my company's wellness program to make my next purchase for the sump addition. This is my shopping list from petsolutions. What do you think.? I will be dropping in a large bag of Phosban and see how that works. If not well enough then I will get a reactor chamber.

    89089124 - Eshopps Reef Sump Filter MODEL 75 $124.99 $124.99
    89089014 - Eshopps Siphon Overflow 300 GPH $46.99 $46.99
    89089234 - SMALL CYLINDER FOAM $1.99 $9.95
    41400542 - KORALIA NANO $27.99 $27.99
    25002513 - MAG DRIVE PUMP 3 $54.99 $54.99
    88350128 - CUSTOMFLO WATER SYSTEM $37.99 $37.99
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