live food/export/ALGEA SCRUBBER???

**clintos** · 03-22-2009, 08:55 PM

I just hooked up a mrc and will be planning a refuge

I would like to cultivate live phyto/rotifer's and dose using a bubbling drip

was wondering if anyone has had a quality protein skimmer,refuge then added a large algea turf scrubber with them and reduced nitrate/phosphate lower then with only a protein skimmer,refuge?

It's just that I get info saying the protein skimmer usualy take out the food before it break's down leaving Nitrate and phosphate in the tank while a scrubber take's out the phosphate and Nitrate while leaving the healthy food in the tank i'm confused?

I have no acro's but was wondering if 8-t5's in a standard 90G with lot's of blue 2 bulb's of 10 000k while feeding high level's of live protein nutrient's while being able to properly export would satifsy them as good as 250 watt halides 10 000 k and 2 -t5 blue supplimental with average nutrient's from fish and their frozen/flake food using the same calcium/mag/alk procedures ?

Not looking to step on no one's toe's just want the fact's I know the closed system is different then the real reef

thank's

Reef Food by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com

Both of the photos above are from reefs on the Great Barrier Reef, Australia. The left photo shows the clear "nutrient poor" (oligotrophic) waters of the outer reefs. The right photo is of an inshore "nutrient rich" lagoon reef off Townsville. Notice how coral coverage in both systems is high, and even though the green phytoplankton-filled lagoonal reef is nutrient rich, it supports a high density of Acropora. Photos by Eric Borneman.

**Phurst** · 03-22-2009, 09:10 PM

I've never used a turf scrubber, but it's my understanding is that it's a more efficient form of growing out macro in a fuge and harvesting it for nutrient export.

Skimmers will indeed remove phyto as well as other zooplankton and fuge critters, but it primarily removes dissolved solids (fuge critters just get caught up in the foam tower and exported with the other waste).

8 T5s would be plenty of light as long as you get individual reflectors for the bulbs. The more daylight bulbs, the more usable light. Actinics are primarily to balance the color for our viewing pleasure.

**clintos** · 03-22-2009, 09:23 PM

?
is there any way I can take a a slightly lower par light with extra protein nutrient's through phyto and rotifer's and equal the growth of a slightly higher par light regarding acro's
that only relied on the nutrient's from the fish/frozen/dry food and get the same growth?

**clintos** · 03-22-2009, 09:27 PM

any possability if I had the most extreme amount of phyto/rotifer and form of export?

**clintos** · 03-22-2009, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Phurst

I've never used a turf scrubber, but it's my understanding is that it's a more efficient form of growing out macro in a fuge and harvesting it for nutrient export.

Skimmers will indeed remove phyto as well as other zooplankton and fuge critters, but it primarily removes dissolved solids (fuge critters just get caught up in the foam tower and exported with the other waste).

8 T5s would be plenty of light as long as you get individual reflectors for the bulbs. The more daylight bulbs, the more usable light. Actinics are primarily to balance the color for our viewing pleasure.

thanks
Asking because other site's just laugh when I bring this up but.... I seen 5 feet by 5 feet turf scruber's that were hooked up to the out side in a green house connected to people's tank's and figured there might be some truth that a tank with t5's and extreme addition's of phyto/rotifers may make a better tank then one with slightly higher light any chance? or does this only apply to lps,softies?

**clintos** · 03-22-2009, 09:44 PM

So for example I have a 90G with individual reflector's tech lighting 2-10 k 4-blue blue like radium mh and 2-half purple/blue
and I only want acro's at the very top tri colour 12" directly under the 8-t5 then slightly lower on the rock work will be monti's then lower zoo's then lower recordia and acan's/ chalices and a crop zoo's/paly's

is this possible or do I have to leave the 2 -10 000k instead of switching to 2-12 000 k my light is bright crisp white but I want a slightly more blue color while feeding lot's of live food?

**clintos** · 03-22-2009, 09:52 PM

Or should I just stay clear of acro's I'm not looking for supper growth just growth

or should i go 3 -12 000k-3 blue blue and 2-blue/purple fugi purple

**Phurst** · 03-22-2009, 10:01 PM

I'd go 5 10k and 3 actinic. You'll have no problems with that setup. IME acros don't get a whole lot of nutrients from actualy consuming food. They will eat zooplankton, but not phyto. They're not like some anemones who can supplement less than ideal light with feeding. They NEED the light.

**clintos** · 03-22-2009, 10:37 PM

Thank's i'm really happy with my light and you made my mind up i'm sticking with my 2-10 000k
and going all blue for the rest no purple and no acro's

So rotifer's which will they feed,acan's,chalice,echino,zoo's,ric's?

and phyto is it just for the feather duster's and copepod's,amphipod's?

and will increasinf phyto help at all with the natural food that feed's the above coral's.

**Phurst** · 03-22-2009, 11:04 PM

Zoas and rics don't seem to readily take solid foods (the larger palythoas will). The acan and other LPSs will take rotis, but can take, and may be better served with larger food like mysis.

Phyto is great for filter feeders like feather dusters and pods. Increased phyto will boost pod poulations as natural food, but it really only takes very little. Too much will just foul the water.

**clintos** · 03-23-2009, 12:17 AM

for zoo's and ric's what do they eat?

**clintos** · 03-23-2009, 12:21 AM

I'll have a mrc what size refuge would you suggest if I were to just feed rotifer's and phyto and something for the acan's,ric's,zoo's?
and have a decent size to large fish population and a 12"x12" 5G turf scruber I have lot's of room

If I were to grow for pod etc for acan,zoo/ric's what would you suggest?

and if I had a large natural myslid or brine shrimp population would I need to spot feed or can I get a nice healthy marine snow going?

**Phurst** · 03-23-2009, 12:21 AM

Light

They will utilize dissolved organics from the water, but like most corals, they primarily get their nutrients from their zooxanthellae.

**Phurst** · 03-23-2009, 12:29 AM

The biggest you can fit.

You will not be able to sustain a tank on phyto and rotifirs. The fish will need more than that. IMO, there's no real need to feed rotis and phyto. They're OK if you're already breeding them for raising fry, but there's already a fair amount of phyto and zooplankton in the tank anyway.

**clintos** · 03-23-2009, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Phurst

Zoas and rics don't seem to readily take solid foods (the larger palythoas will). The acan and other LPSs will take rotis, but can take, and may be better served with larger food like mysis.

Phyto is great for filter feeders like feather dusters and pods. Increased phyto will boost pod poulations as natural food, but it really only takes very little. Too much will just foul the water.

If ric's and zoo's don't take solid's do the take waste product's inwhich a large fish population would help with?

**clintos** · 03-23-2009, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Phurst

The biggest you can fit.

You will not be able to sustain a tank on phyto and rotifirs. The fish will need more than that. IMO, there's no real need to feed rotis and phyto. They're OK if you're already breeding them for raising fry, but there's already a fair amount of phyto and zooplankton in the tank anyway.

interesting wow I got confused for the last 5 year's your not the first I believe you

**Phurst** · 03-23-2009, 12:49 AM

To a very small degree. It's perfectly possible to keep zoas and rics in a tank with no other fish or inverts, that never gets anything but water changes. I kept a 12 gal nano full of zoas and no other livestock. They can get 100% of ther required nutrients from their zooxanthellae.

**clintos** · 03-23-2009, 12:51 AM

no wonder I alway's added phyto to feed the coral only to scrape the glass every day

**clintos** · 03-23-2009, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Phurst

To a very small degree. It's perfectly possible to keep zoas and rics in a tank with no other fish or inverts, that never gets anything but water changes. I kept a 12 gal nano full of zoas and no other livestock. They can get 100% of ther required nutrients from their zooxanthellae.

If I would be able to add alot of fish but at the same time be able to export really good and have high light and have acro's on the top would this beable to feed most mixed coral underneath or do I need to pick a sps or a dominate zoo,acan,chalice,paly tank or can i get a even mix if I want

**clintos** · 03-23-2009, 01:05 AM

Any nutrient suppliment's that will help or will having a large fish population and lot's of flake/frozen food do

will a small coral frenzy/mix powder food help

**Phurst** · 03-23-2009, 09:40 AM

You definitely could have acros at the top and lps/softies/zoas/rics down lower. Many SPS will esentialy eat fish poop. There's no need to supplement. You can target feed the LPS with mysis or baby brine if you want, but it's not at all necessary. I've heard good things about Coral Frenzy, but again, it's totaly unnecessary. I kept a primarily SPS tank for a long time without doing anything except making sure my water parameters were in check.

While SPS do benefit from fish poop, they strongly prefer a low nutrient environment. While they can and will grow in higher nutrient environments, growth is stunted and the acros in particular tend to turn brown. You need to keep in mind that our little boxes of ocean, even if very clean, are high nutrient in comparison to the ocean.