New Marine Tank..

[Dalescarface]

Hi, ive been using this site for the last few weeks without posting, as most of my questions have been answered before, but ive got a few that different sources sort of contradict. Ive started downloading the podcasts, and will listen to them tonight after work.
Ok, im looking to start a salt water aquarium, and have done LOTS of research over the past months, so pretty sure i know what im doing. Ive only got a little 75 litre tank, but only want a simple set up with some live rock and a couple of fish.
My LPS has some very nice fish, and am in the process of creating a shortlist of potentials. I need a couple of suggestions of which fish may be good to start with, that will not fight as much as others do, as want to minimise casualties!
I have my heater, protein skimmer and a powerhead, just waiting on sand/sediment, test kits and salt.
My LPS also has some live rock, at quite expensive prices, but since my tank is only small, was thinking about getting some of the peices of rubble they have, which are quite big for rubble. Anyway, sorry for the long post, just trying to give you lots of info..
Im from England by the way.
Loving the site,
Thanks in advance

[rayme07]

Hi Dalescarface and welcome to TR glad your here on the sight and enjoying it. And welcome from the USA. Hows the weather in England. Is it nice and sunny. Over the past few weeks Iv been getting some rain and cool then it turned to heat.

Ive only got a little 75 litre tank,

I need help don't know litres can anyone help please. thanks

No worries for the long post I am grateful of reading long post and helping you out. I was wondering what type of fish do you want is there a certain color or size you want.
But before you think fish you should set the tank up and get it into the cycling stage and wait about a month or more before you get anything until the cycling stage is complete. Then once its compleat you got to make sure your perimeters are still in check and then you can start deciding on what your going to keep. Hope this helps little. Thanks

[Skurvey Dog]

to TR Dale, glad you decided to join us. It thrills me to see people using their heads and some common sense as you are doing..... research, reseach, research. Although your tank is small, a little under 20 gallons, you still will be able to do some wonderful things with it. You will just need to go a little slower and monitor it with an eagle eye as the smaller a water volume, the quicker things can get out of whack. I would encourage you to get a couple of pieces of LR that would enable you to build a little structure which would enable fish to find shelter in and feel secure. Using too much small pieces of rubble could cause detrius to build up, unless you had alot of water flow to keep it clean. You know you could purchase dry rock and then a few nice pieces of LR to seed it, which would cut down on the cost. It will be just as beautiful as the rest in a few months. Same with your sand, as it can be seeded also. These are great ideas for cost conscience people and those like myself who have more time than money.

The selecting fish will be a tough job as the more you research and learn about each species, their personalities, care, feeding requirements, maturity size, and proper tank mates..... that alone will really limit what you can keep successfully. Please don't be tempted to buy that cute little Great Dane puppy when you live in a small apartment. All will be heartbroken in the end. J/K But you get the picture.

What type of fish did you find interesting? Alot of folks like lil Nemos, firefish, gobies or blennies, cardinals and a few others. The Damsel fish species tend to be highly territorial and have caused many aquariusts to regret ever introducing them into their tanks. The blue-green chromis tend to be the least aggressive of the bunch, but still will want to be dominant. Would love to hear and see your set up! Can't wait, how exciting.

Here's something to look at, if you haven't already done so.
http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/ge...hier-fish.html

[Dalescarface]

Thanks for the quick replies, the weather here is starting to get chillier as we come closer to winter, but mainly dry as i live in the east, where it is moderately warmer. Back to fish, I would prefer to have smaller fish with interesting colours, but i dont mind too much about their appearance. I love the little percula clown fish my LPS has, also they have a lot of damselfish which look nice, but i want to stay away from them due to their aggressive temperement. wouldnt mind gobies, hawkfish, bennies, anything like that, but it seems nowhere can really give me a definitive answer to fish fish are not aggressive towards eachother.
Also, the cycling process brings a question or two, as this is the only other area where i cannot seem to find definitive answers. How would i begin the cycling progress? Would it be a good idea to place some live rock in the tank to start the ammonia boost, then moniter the various levels? Also, would i clean the tank whilst this is happening? And would i have my skimmer running? I will be sure to keep you up to date with my tanks progress as things happen.
Thanks again for the help already.
Hope to hear from you very soon.

[Skurvey Dog]

Dale, if you are starting up a new system, the quickest, easiest way is to cycle all at one time and be done with it. I'd get it all set up, adding your sand, LR and salt water. Get the heater on it and some flow going. Find a raw, uncooked shrimp, can be frozen and throw it in your tank for a few days and then remove it. That will generate some bateria into the system and get things going. I would not buy any quick cycle, cycle starter, etc...... use the shrimp method. Do not let the LFS tell you to use a live fish to cycle your tank. Make sure you have some basic test kits(amonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, unless you were planning on letting the LFS test your water. I'd advise you to start testing from the beginning on your own to give you some experience using the tests. Start yourself a journal if you have the time and record your readings. You should start to see the nitrogen cycle, amonia starts to build to be replaced by nitrites and then nitrates, all feeding and building populations off of the other like a food chain. It can take anywhere from 4-6 weeks or more to complete the "initial" cycle. All tanks are an unique environment on their own and what can happen in someone else's tank, doesn't necessarily mean it will be exactly like that for you or me. . :heart After the cycle, you could then introduce a clean up crew and wait for several weeks for the tank to catch up with the new load. You'll need to do everything at a slowwww pace.

I adore the percula clowns. a pair is good, but would need to be introduced together. I feel if you have plenty of LR, a firefish could live in a tank with the clowns, but I would add him before I put any clowns in as they are very shy fish. They can also be kept in pairs. Blennies are very interesting fish, mainly only one and introduced into an established tank as they tend to graze off of the LR and stay in the lower regions of the tank.. You'll have to check each of their feeding requirements and needs. The percs are the most aggressive of the bunch. The blue-green chromis can be kept with any of those fish, but remember if you get more than 2 of those, you'll eventually wind up with only 2 as there is always one main dominant chromis. They are a member of the damsel family.

[CarmieJo]

Hello Dale and to TR!

Raymond, for a ballpark liter to gallon conversion divide liters by 4. To convert degrees C to F double the C temperature and add 32. These conversions are approximate and won't do for science class!

[Dalescarface]

Ok i understand now, that was what i thought the cycling process was but a couple of other sources confused me! Still waiting on my skimmer and powerhead due to unreliable mail system in England! Thanks for the help again, and ill be sure to keep you updated and ask some more questions as i slowly move on.

[Dalescarface]

Also, would anyone recommend the royal gramma, Hawkfish, wrasses or the sharp-nosed puffer?

[Amphibious]

I Would stay away from the cute little puffer because in a 75 liter (approx 20 gal) he's more likely to cause problems with nipping fins and eating some invertebrates. It's been reported some puffers release toxins into the water when disturbed. The Royal Gramma and Hawkfish are probably good choices. Some wrasses can get large so check the ADULT size before you buy a small cute one.

I commend you for doing your research ahead of time. Here is an article, written by me, that has proven to be quite popular. If instructions contained therein are followed, your adventure into this most fascinating hobby will be more successful.

By the way, welcome to TR.

Dick

[Dalescarface]

That is what i was worried about with the puffer. Thanks for the advice. Ill be sure to do lots of research on the fish before i buy them as it would not be fair on them if all goes wrong, not to mention my wallet!
Another question... What should i do about live rock? My LPS sells good size pieces but very expensive, and also LR rubble, which are still decent sized, especially for my smaller tank. Would you recommend a couple of pieces of LR and then the rest rubble? Or even base?
Also, i may have a few questions about curing the LR, but will save them for closer to the time.
Thanks again..

Oh, how does this sound? Start with one firefish, then introduce two percula clowns, then in time a longnose hawkfish and royal gramma?

[Dalescarface]

Sorry to be a pain but couldn't seem to find a link to the article you were referring to..

Here is an article, written by me, that has proven to be quite popular. If instructions contained therein are followed, your adventure into this most fascinating hobby will be more successful.

[Skurvey Dog]

Sorry to be a pain but couldn't seem to find a link to the article you were referring to..

I "think" maybe Dick was talking about his article that I posted in my first reply to your thread? Not positively sure as he has written several articles. Dick is a fountain of valuable information and am very glad he chimed in on your thread.

Don't ever feel bad about asking questions..... there are no dumb questions! How are we to know unless we ask.

You could use some base rock for the foundation and then some larger pieces of LR rubble and LR to finish it off. It's sort of like sculpting with 2 purposes in mind. You want it to look pleasing to the viewer and make safe havens for the fish to swim through, live amongst and hide in for protection. Look at a few of the links I have placed below for some nanos and the way their rock work is laid out so you can get a better idea of what you like, while understanding the fish's needs concept.

http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/me...mies-cube.html

http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/me...-aquarium.html

http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/me...g-biocube.html

Don't worry about curing the LR. If you set up the tank with all of the ingredients, sand, LR, salt water as we spoke of earlier, it can ALL cycle at the same time.

As far as fish, I would go with the firefish first. I am not too familiar with the royal gramma or hawkfish temperment traits. I do know the docile or peaceful fish, need to be added first to get them established and stake out a safety area/zone and become comfortable with no added stress. I believe the percs would be the last to be added.

[rayme07]

Thanks Carmie and dick for the info on how big the tank is and how to convert.

Oh, how does this sound? Start with one firefish, then introduce two percula clowns, then in time a longnose hawkfish and royal gramma?

I think thats a good idea. I had a firefish and a royal gramma and loved both. I would do like you and Lori said on adding the firefish first then the more agressive fish next. In my experience with the royal gramma I would say they are alittle agressive some being very agressive. The one I had was perfect he got along with my bicolor dottyback which I would highly avoid doing because Royal grammas tend to be agressive tword other tank mates that look alike just because I got lucky doesnt mean you will. I dont have any experience with hawkfish so I cant help you there. Good luck. Thanks

[V]

Im from England by the way

haha, welcome bud.

dont worry, the americans wont hold that against you, but that doesn't mean i'll hold back..lol

hope you enjoy your stay, its good to see a wider network these days

[CarmieJo]

That is what i was worried about with the puffer. Thanks for the advice. Ill be sure to do lots of research on the fish before i buy them as it would not be fair on them if all goes wrong, not to mention my wallet!
Another question... What should i do about live rock? My LPS sells good size pieces but very expensive, and also LR rubble, which are still decent sized, especially for my smaller tank. Would you recommend a couple of pieces of LR and then the rest rubble? Or even base?
Also, i may have a few questions about curing the LR, but will save them for closer to the time.
Thanks again..

Oh, how does this sound? Start with one firefish, then introduce two percula clowns, then in time a longnose hawkfish and royal gramma?

Dale, I agree with Lori that you can start with base rock and just use the LR (either big pieces or large rubble) to seed it. This is a great way to save money.

I am conservative but I think that your stocking list is heavy. If it was my tank I would have no more than 3 fish.

[Dalescarface]

Thanks again for all of the replies..
Ill be sure to take all of your advice, as it is spoken from experience. Most of your answers are what i thought i should do, but they have just reassured me. At least i have a definate clear picture of what i am going to do now, almost step by step.
I did think that that was the article he was referring to as well.
Thankyou for the pictures, they were a real help in giving me some ideas about what i could do with my sort of sized tank. And if i don't cure the live rock, and just let it all cycle at the same time, would that be ok? and not have any negative effects? I don't think that there would be too much die-off anyway as i only live about 20 minutes from my LFS.
I will definately be sure to do lots of research on the fish before i buy them, its just most of the sources that i use don't really tell me which fish get on with others, so was hoping your experience would help, which it has done so far.
Thanks again everyone

[Dalescarface]

My Powerhead and Protein Skimmer just turned up! Very excited.

Another question has just sprung to mind though. How many watts of lighting should i have? or is the standard light the tank came with ok? don't know how many watts it is though. Hope this light is ok as don't want to be having to buy a completely new hood to be able to fit more light! Also, would blue light do any harm? or would you recommend just using white light?

Also, sorry for the amount of questions again, but which invertebrates would you recommend to clean the tank first?

[CarmieJo]

Dale, although you will hear people talk about having so many watts of light per gallon (or liter) it is not a helpful standard. The amount of light you need depends on what you want to keep, the tank depth and your budget. Many people like a blue cast to their aquarium and either use more blue high K lights or supplement more yellow lower K lights with actinic (blue) lights. The blue is mostly for you and your eyes.

I think this article The Building of a Reef (tank) is really good and will go a long way to answering your clean up crew questions.

[Dalescarface]

Thanks again for the advice, and will read the article now. So will my tank consisting of fish and live rock, and possibly some easy corals in the future be ok with the blue light? or should i just stick to the normal one that i have?

[CarmieJo]

You would not want only actinic bulbs but something like a 20K bulb would be fine.

[Dalescarface]

Ok will do. Thnaks again, ANOTHER question came to mind last night when i was trying to get to sleep! Im getting my salt, live sand and test kits next saturday, and was wondering would it be ok to fill the tank up with the sand and salt water, check all the parameters, and then maybe a week later put the live rock in? Or would the nitrogen cycle start when i put the sand in, because it is live? and then would putting the live rock in after ruin the cycle? or would it be ok to put the sand and water in, then a week or so later add the live rock when i get it?

[CarmieJo]

I would save some money and buy dry sand. Your live rock will make the sand live in short order.

[Dalescarface]

Yeah i thought that too but my LPS sells the live sand at only 7 pounds more than dry sand so thought i might aswell just go with the live one. Would putting this in with the water kick start the nitrogen cycle? If so, would i then have to wait for the tanks levels to get to zero before adding the live rock, or could i add it straight away?

Also, should i run my skimmer while cycling?

[Amphibious]

Hey Dale, welcome to TR.

Seven pounds is 7 pounds. It represents money you do not have to spend. Buy dry sand, rinse it a little, add it and the LR to your tank at the same time. In a few short days your cycle will begin. Yes, definitely run your skimmer during the cycle.

Dick

[Dalescarface]

Ok thanks that clears everything up about cycling... I think! Ill post any questions i think of, thanks for the help so far.