Kinda new...looking for opinions

**DDC** · 09-05-2008, 01:10 PM

i found myself buying a 40gallon tank from a frined. he started it...but then he found out his wife was pregnant. as its been started for about a month..i told him id pay for it. My family had one about 5 years ago and ive always been intrested in them.
here are the specs
40gallon tank
protien skimmer (uses airpump to creat the bubble and skims, looks very cheap)
2 powerfilters (just two pumps with a filter on the bottom, and both are in the tank one on each side)
about 15lbs of LR
3 yellow tail damsils
1 (i think emerald crab..but its more brown than green)
1 signicicant size featherduster
and sand as the bottom
1 heater
2 50x florecent lights

i used half his water thats allready been cycled and then made my own for the rest.
also been testing and from what i have reserched everything lokos good
ph. 8.2ish
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
ammonia 0
salinity 1.022

i hope to make this into a reef with fish aquarium
any suggestions?
o yea almost forgot
my friend also orderd a 4 stage with uv sterilizer canister filter, and a prizm skimmer. i know the canister should be just sent back...but if i dont have room for a sump, what would you guys do?

Thanks

**bbl_nk** · 09-05-2008, 01:26 PM

First of all, welcome to Talking Reef

Keep coming back and asking questions, we love helping each other out. Also a great thing is our podcast archive....take a look at these and listen to as many as you can. There is GREAT advice and information that will bring you up to speed with the hobby in no time

Sounds like a great start to getting set up! The airstone driven skimmers have been given a bad rap in my opinion. Most salty dog vets will tell you they are one of the more efficient models, but require considerable maintenance since you have to change the airstones to maintain the best bubble size mix to be productive.

You could probably stand to use a bit more live rock. A lot of people say about 1lb per gallon, I would suggest maybe adding at least 10-15lbs more. The damsels may be something you should consider giving away to the local fish store or other hobbyists. They can be pretty aggressive and territorial and my bully other critters, corals and fish you may be looking at.

Also what kind of lighting is your flourescent setup? A few major types are the regular thick bulbs like you see in an office buiding (T8), the power compact or PC (thinner with a distinct U shape) or T5 which is like the width of you index finger. Also is it two 50watt bulbs? Is one buld white and one blue? Your lighting is fine for fish, LR and some hearty corals, but depending on what you want to keep, you might need to add more or change the bulbs.

You say you have no room for a sump...do you have a cabinet under your tank you can use to house some gadgets? Pics of what you have would be helpful too. A few shots of your tank and the general area where you will be keeping it will give people a better idea of what you can do.

**DDC** · 09-05-2008, 01:35 PM

the lighting is 2 50w PC
and no cabniets. right now useing a dreaswer fro the stand.
could the sump be set up on the same level as the tank (right next to it)?
And the LR. i do inteand on buying more..prolly tomarow actually
FYI...i live in korea on a military base. the LFS here....arnt like the states at all! so anything equipment wise i will be ordering online.
but fish and LR i can get here for a decent price.

**boyesreef** · 09-05-2008, 01:37 PM

sounds like you got a lot of good stuff, welcome to the addiction that is saltwater! as far as the canister filter, there is no problem having one if you dont have a sump, cause a filter is a filter when your starting. a sump is just an option, if you dont want one you dont realy need one, it is mainly to give you more water volume and to hide your heaters and filters and junk. if you have room for it in the display tank, you dont need a sump.

**DDC** · 09-05-2008, 01:43 PM

Canister....Really?
cause if i can use it and its new i will?
Ive done alot of reading for ive had this for about a week. so many pple dont like them for they are nitrate collecters and ect..
i do plan on haveing the reef with coral and anenomeas
if i can figuer how to put the pictures i have on my comp on this four i would...but im not a computer wizz. lol

**boyesreef** · 09-05-2008, 01:51 PM

canisters are fine if you keep them clean. very clean.

**DDC** · 09-05-2008, 02:03 PM

ok sweet.
so as far as i have...plus new light (what would you guys perfer), anything else so start putting in really cool stuff? like anenomes, soft corals, invertebreas?

**Skurvey Dog** · 09-05-2008, 05:00 PM

Hello DDC and welcome to our Reefing Family. Looks like things are coming along nicely. I also agree that you need to increase the amount of LR that you have to help stabalize your system. I am not keen on any damsels except the blue-green chromis as I find the others more agressive, territorial and bullies to other fish. And of course with the chromis, there will always be one main dominant one unfortunately. How long has the system been set up since you aquired it? The others here have helped you along nicely, but I feel the need to expound upon Boysreef's advice..... Keep the canister clean and by that I mean once a week! Canisters are very efficient and will collect a miriad of substances from your water column and if not taken care of promptly and on a regular basis will do far more harm than good.

As with anything having to do with your system and future purchases, I encourage you to research, reseach and research.

Every living creature has certain requirements and compatibilities in order to survive and thrive in our systems. If you plan on keeping corals in the future, you will need to raise your salinty as 1.022 is too low for a reef system. 1.025 has been the recommended level. Your current lighting should be able to support zoanthids, mushrooms and other soft corals, but definately not an anenome as they require intense lighting. Also, please be sure that you add phytoplankton to your system as the feather duster is a filter feeder and needs to be fed or he will slowly starve to death.

I am very excited for you and can't wait to see all your wonderful plans for your new project!

**DDC** · 09-06-2008, 03:07 PM

The tank has been setup for approxamitly 3 months. i bought new test equipment and did a new test today.
ph. 8.4
ammonia 0
alkalinity 2.0ish (normal zone)
nitrite 0
nitrate (i dont know what part to read, low or high so heres both) 100 high, 20 low
i prolly been feeding them to much...sry
salinity 1.023
i bought the new eqquipment because i was sceptacle about my last result...i just wanted to make sure and like i was thinking, my nitrate is to high
i also got my new protien skimmer "weipro 2011" its a venturi skimmer. i think it will do great. picked it up for 30 bucks with a pump. im sure the pump has the power because after 2 hours it was allready producing film.

just another thing why i dont like the LFS here in korea. i got a store to test my water...i watched him do it and he said everything was 0 and ph was 8.2 lol.....so thinking i was good, i bought 2 shrip, and 2 clowns. and a scooter blenny. (prolly 2 much fish at once but i was so excited...lol
dont hit me to hard for this but now i have high nitrate..how am i going to beable to lower this? will the canister filter fix the problem its a Aquarium Filtration & Water Quality: JBJ Lighting Reaction 4-Stage Canister Filter with UV
uv stage 4 canister. and it should be here this week

And thanks so mush for all the help...im learning something new everyday either from you all or reserching online!!

**Skurvey Dog** · 09-06-2008, 03:45 PM

I'm a little confused with what you are saying is the nitrate reading right now. What type of test kit are you using? Fish can tolerate a higher nitrate reading, but everything else can not. Water changes are the quickest, most logical way to start reducing impurities in the water. If you have not done so, please when you are able, purchase your own test kits. That way you can see for yourself that tests are done properly and you can recheck them for accuracy if needed or in doubt. When we add creatures to our tanks, we are increasing the bio load. By adding that many animals at one time to the water volume that you have, will cause you to possibly see changes in your readings until the bacteria colonies can catch up and try to stabalize. Do not over feed as any uneaten food sources will foul the tank and increase your nitrate issues.

Start by doing a 10 percent water change. Please get back with me on what your actual nitrate reading is. This is very important.

**DDC** · 09-06-2008, 03:51 PM

im useing the red sea nitrate NO3 p.p.m. im thinking ineed to use the low range for saltwater fish can only handle very little. and fresh water can handle much more from my understanding. so i did the test and approximitly 20 is my reading.
and yes i did buy new ones. and tested with them as soo as i got home with the fish

**Skurvey Dog** · 09-06-2008, 04:14 PM

I am unfamiliar with that test kit. If your reading is 20 that is not too terribly bad, but still not good. Start doing some small water changes to bring that reading down, while monitoring to make sure you don't get a reading on amonia and nitrates. I'm glad you were able to get your own test kits.

**DDC** · 09-06-2008, 04:44 PM

thats some nice not good but better than i was thinking, news to here. im in the middle of doing a water change..only bout 4 gallons. maybe less but no more. ill do more test in the morning and let u all know. if im on the right page as you skurvy, in the morning if the nitrates arestill high...do another water change??? or wait a little?
P.S. you all are amazing!

**rayme07** · 09-06-2008, 05:18 PM

Hi DDC and

to TR I cant realy add anything at the moment so just wanted to pop in and say good luck. Thanks
Raymond

**DDC** · 09-06-2008, 05:36 PM

Thanks for the "welcome" This site has allready helped me tons...i have no idea were I'd be w/o you all!

**DDC** · 09-07-2008, 03:10 AM

Thanks agian to all of you.
i did another test today, all fish looking great and happy
nitrite 0
ammonia 0-0.25
nitrate 10-20
ph 8.4ish
salitnity 1.023
alkalinity in the good
This is after the water change yesterday, i will do another today

**Skurvey Dog** · 09-07-2008, 11:18 AM

I would continue to do several small water changes every couple of days until your readings drop to zero. Then you could maintain that with a 10 percent every week or so. I'm glad you knew to introduce the pair of clowns together and not try to add the second one later.

**DDC** · 09-07-2008, 11:28 AM

Yea i was reserching them and alot of people said to introduce them in pairs. Everything is looking ok i guess. the damsils are mean, but havnt done any damage. the scooter blenn thus far is my favoite, just pioneering the tank 24/7 minding his buisness. i did another test and the the nitrate is still the same as yesterday. so i wil be doing another water change here very shortly. I cant wait for my canister filter..i think it will help alot. and it has a little uv sterilizer for extra cleaning. but for now nothing to add to the tank for maybe a month. maybe rock since i do need more, but thats it! this is getting to be alot funner than i ever thought it would be.

**DDC** · 09-08-2008, 02:04 PM

Well, heres an update. one clown died today...all my friends as well as i am are vey sad...and the other is starting to have little white dots on him. is this the famous ick?? none of the other fish have this, just him. not the damsils, or the blenny have it. . ALSO...i found a criter in my rock today...so colorful im suprised it took about a week to notice. a slug guy. i think he was in the rock when i bought the rock but im very suprised as i was suprised with my crab that cam along with the slug as well. i resurched him and its a nudibranch. also only experts have these. im no expert so what do i do? send him back? Also an update with the testing...my nitrat has gone down to 10. and i just installed the new canister today. Any suggestions with the ?ick?

**floodland** · 09-08-2008, 06:42 PM

DDC Welcome to TR!

Sorry to hear about your clown, do you know how long your LFS had the fish before you got them? Sometimes fish perish for unknown reasons so it's best to buy fish that look to be in good health, are eating and have been in a QT. You also need to QT the fish yourself if possible just to make sure things like Ich do not invade your system.

I know how exciting it is to jump into things and we are all guilty of moving too fast at one time or another

My Fiance acquired 2 clowns thinking that my tank was ready, it wasn't. I put them in the tank (stupid me!) and the next day they were very unhappy so I had to build a QT tank using water from a LFS's sump. They have spent the last few weeks there, happy and this weekend I moved them into the DT which has been stable as I had to do some other rescue operations involving another tank that had very very high Nitrates (off the scale). Everything seems to be ok with the tanks but I just won't know for a while.

I would monitor your other clown, watch for it to be scratching itself against the rocks, etc. If possible (I know you are limited being in Korea) you should try to do a QT for the clown, you can go as simple as a small tank with a filter and water from your main tank. If you end up having to treat the fish for Ich you should be aware that even though they are not showing it all of your fish could be carrying Ich and will have to be treated. You will want to do the treatment in a separate tank from your display as the inverts will not handle it well.

Sorry about your loss (you might check with the LFS about their return policy) and again welcome to TR and good luck!

**rayme07** · 09-08-2008, 09:19 PM

Hi DDC Im sorry for your losses if you could do you think you can get a pic of the nudibranch for us I would love to see it

Thanks
Raymond

**Skurvey Dog** · 09-08-2008, 09:52 PM

Hey DCC! I am sorry to hear about the clown. Even though you are running into some problems that many of us have experienced, I hope this doesn't dampen your excitement with reefing. "Reefing is hard work, but also an addiction with many rewards that are endless."

The more we research, ask questions and just hands on experience can get you over some hurdles. Even when bad things happen, they still can be used for good. It is a learning experience and opens up doors of new understanding about our tanks and their care.

I am not sure about the surprise creature you found. Could you post a pic of him? I noticed that you are now showing a small measurement of amonia. I thought perhaps you might after the introduction of new livestock. Just continue to do your water changes as planned. The bacteria colonies have to catch up. Below is a link to an article on ich, in case you haven't had a chance to read up on it and some of the treatment options available. If I can help you further..... just give a shout! Remember, it's a long way from here so you'll give a loud one.

J/K Take care!

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

**CarmieJo** · 09-08-2008, 11:55 PM

Hi David and

to TR. It's good to have you aboard. You have received excellent advice so far. How is your other clown today? Ich goes through a life cycle and only lives on the fish during one stage. Here is a really good article Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com about it. Be sure to follow the link at the end to part 2. The UV will kill bacteria, parasites and other nasties in the tank but it will not cure ich.

Is UAV operator like flying the drone planes?

**DDC** · 09-09-2008, 01:06 AM

I read the artical and thanks for the news. About the ich, the only sign i see is the white dots. in the morning when i turn the lights on, the ich isnt as bad as it is when i get back from work. you all ever notice this? and no iregular behavior or scatching, or even cloudy eys. with all the treatment, what have you guys expierenced and what worked?
And no this didnt kill the excitment, at all, just a challenge in my eyes. Im still waiting for the weekend to travel the 1 and 1/2 hour to the LFS just to see and look.
Also yes, uav operator is flying the drone planes.