What does it mean if my perculas are shuddering?

**MrGone** · 09-01-2008, 06:10 PM

I read in this thread it's part of the pairing/mating process, they don't seem to be attacking each other, they'll just swim near each other and one will do the shudder thing and the other one is indifferent about it, not acknowledging it and isn't afraid either. It seems like one will do it, then the other will but I'm not completely certain. It seems like one is doing it more than the other. I introduced them to the tank yesterday and they started doing it within hours which seemed way too soon.

**CarmieJo** · 09-01-2008, 06:19 PM

Hi Shawn and

to TR.

The shudder you are seeing sounds like pairing behavior to me. To really help tell us a little about your system, size, age, parameters, etc. Did you just get two fish from the LFS or did you buy a mated pair?

**MrGone** · 09-01-2008, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by CarmieJo

Hi Shawn and

to TR.

The shudder you are seeing sounds like pairing behavior to me. To really help tell us a little about your system, size, age, parameters, etc. Did you just get two fish from the LFS or did you buy a mated pair?

I have a 10 gallon tank but the water column is really only about 9 gallons. Age is just over a week (eek! I know), if by parameters you mean ammonia/nitrate/nitrite levels... I don't have a test kit :-/ (my dad said not to waste my money on them... although just a few years ago he said a 10 gallon marine wouldn't work and now he's more excited about it than I am). I know I'm playing with fire right now.

The fish were from the LFS, except local being 275 miles away (my Dad came to visit and brought some live rock and the two perculas for me because there is only one store here and they seem to be more interested in selling kittens). I setup the system using RO water, Instant Ocean salt, and CaribSea Aragonite sand. I have a small Marineland 100 filter on the back of it. I don't have a protein skimmer and I'm not sure if I should (I'd prefer not to until I can get a bigger tank but I know that's not how it works ;-) ). I moved the tank into the common area of my suite because it has air conditioning (I was going to need a chiller if I kept it in my room). The light is a standard 10 gallon hood with a 19watt fluorescent, no idea on the specs. I use the bobbing style hydrometer.

Normally I do far more research with my hobbies and feel like I am being a little reckless so I greatly appreciate your input!

(I know the background isn't right but I can't find a good squeegee for the life of me and the credit card trick left the streak marks :-/ my dad pointed out that algae will be growing there anyway

)

**rayme07** · 09-01-2008, 07:55 PM

Hi shawn sencse you dont have a test kit your gonna have to get one soon its asential to have one for a reef or marine tank. also how old are you and just like carmie said it sounds normal with the clowns oh by the way I almost forgot Welcome to TR. and one more thing your tank looks great.
Raymond

**CarmieJo** · 09-01-2008, 07:57 PM

Are you a college student there? There is Palouse Reefers in your area. I'd recommend that you get in touch with them and see if any of the members have a recommendation as far as the LFS goes.

The clowns look pretty and your design is nice. I'd turn the big shells with the opening down so detritus doesn't collect in them.

I would respectfully disagree with your father in regards to test kits. They help you know where you are in the cycle and are an indicator of water quality. I think that this is even more important in a 10 gallon nano where things can crash in a heartbeat. For instance, I don't test for ammonia on a regular basis but if anything doesn't look "right" in one of my tanks it's the first thing I do.

It may be that the behavior you see it because they are stressed from being plopped into a brand new tank. You need those test kits but for now I am going to recommend that you do a 1 gallon water change every day. Is the Marineland filter a bio-wheel? What is the SpG? Make sure you tap the hydrometer firmly to knock bubbles off of the swing arm.

As far as the background goes, did you try spraying the outside of the glass with water? That makes applying the film easier. Try Wal-mart in the window washing area or the paint and wallpaper department for a squeege.

**MrGone** · 09-01-2008, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by rayme07

Hi shawn sencse you dont have a test kit your gonna have to get one soon its asential to have one for a reef or marine tank. also how old are you and just like carmie said it sounds normal with the clowns oh by the way I almost forgot Welcome to TR. and one more thing your tank looks great.
Raymond

I'm 23 and thanks! Do you guys have some recommendations on test kits. I know they can get pretty spendy and I've hard mixed things about using the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals ones (although if they work well enough I'd prefer spending $15-25 to $60-100 :-/ ). Also a my LFS will do free water tests but he only sells tropical fish.

**rayme07** · 09-01-2008, 08:03 PM

Try Wal-mart in the window washing area or the paint and wallpaper department for a squeege.

Or also what I do is I use a cloth or small towl and wipe it off or i also use a fish tank glass cleaner from wallmart both work great. The test kits I use is the liquid and test strips both work well but iv herd liquid is more acurate but iv also herd the same for the strips but I like liquid better I like the feeling im in a lab. hehe normally the test strips run from 15 - 20$ around my house but Iv seen them cheeper.
Raymond

**CarmieJo** · 09-01-2008, 08:10 PM

I have the API test kit that contains ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and it is OK. If I am buying them one at a time I prefer Salifert or Seachem. You need your own kits but see if the LFS can at least test for ammonia tomorrow. I think the freshwater test may work on salt as well.

**MrGone** · 09-01-2008, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by CarmieJo

Are you a college student there? There is Palouse Reefers in your area. I'd recommend that you get in touch with them and see if any of the members have a recommendation as far as the LFS goes.

The clowns look pretty and your design is nice. I'd turn the big shells with the opening down so detritus doesn't collect in them.

I would respectfully disagree with your father in regards to test kits. They help you know where you are in the cycle and are an indicator of water quality. I think that this is even more important in a 10 gallon nano where things can crash in a heartbeat. For instance, I don't test for ammonia on a regular basis but if anything doesn't look "right" in one of my tanks it's the first thing I do.

It may be that the behavior you see it because they are stressed from being plopped into a brand new tank. You need those test kits but for now I am going to recommend that you do a 1 gallon water change every day. Is the Marineland filter a bio-wheel? What is the SpG? Make sure you tap the hydrometer firmly to knock bubbles off of the swing arm.

As far as the background goes, did you try spraying the outside of the glass with water? That makes applying the film easier. Try Wal-mart in the window washing area or the paint and wallpaper department for a squeege.

Yeah, I'm a student at WSU

thanks for the link, I'll definitely check them out.

yeah, it's the Bio-wheel filter, what is SpG? I also have an older Marineland Penguin Bio-wheel 100 that is missing the pickup tube but wouldn't be too hard to make one, do you think running both would be a good idea? The one I have currently says it flows 100gph, the 110 does 110gph. I also have some older Penguin 550 Powerheads that flow 145gph but don't have them in the tank. The hydrometer is the thermometer/hydrometer combo kind that floats in the tank, I normally turn the filter off to get a good reading but have been thinking about getting a refractometer... I know it might be overkill but I'm a fan of accuracy and having the right tool for the job (ironic considering the whole not having test kits thing).

Yeah, tried the water/soap trick, I'll check out Walmart next time I'm over there, it's been hectic the last week or two with everyone moving back, they finally restocked the ice cube trays.

**MrGone** · 09-01-2008, 08:17 PM

oh if SpG is specific gravity then 1.024, temp is 76*F, no idea on the PH or the other parameters (yet)

**CarmieJo** · 09-01-2008, 09:06 PM

SpG is specific gravity. The floating hydrometers are pretty accurate it you read them in still water. I prefer to put tank water into a graduated cylinder and read it that way. Probably more than one HOB filter is overkill. You could add one of the powerheads aimed across the flow from the the other filter.

**MrGone** · 09-01-2008, 09:10 PM

I'm about to order test kits and was wondering what do if the ammonia/etc is too high?

**rayme07** · 09-01-2008, 09:40 PM

I'm about to order test kits and was wondering what do if the ammonia/etc is too high?

If the ammonia, nitrates, nitrites etc are too high you would normay do a water change of about 10% to 20%.
Raymond

**CarmieJo** · 09-01-2008, 09:47 PM

That's good advice Raymond. Shawn, I would recommend mixing up a batch of SW and having it ready to go. Do you have 5 gallon bucket you could use? I use a small powerhead to mix my SW with.

**JeffDubya** · 09-01-2008, 11:08 PM

Wow.... a lot to comment on here and not a lot of time.

First, if your LFS sells only tropical fish in Pullman, I am assuming you are talking about Barnacle Bills. He doesn't know a damn thing about marine aquariums, stay far away from him.

Try Pets Are People Too in Moscow or possibly Palouse Pets in Moscow. Neither is great, but Pets can be decent. I can try and help you also or I can put you in touch with some people who are knowledgeable.

You have several things going against you, and I am going to give them to you straight up. Hope I don't offend, but I am willing to take that risk.

First, jumping into a marine tank like this is irresponsible. You should understand a bit more how things work before purchasing living things and just expecting it all to work. Second, your dad is 1000000% wrong on test kits. Third, while clowns are fairly hardy fish, I believe this tank is too small and if you are using Pullman tap water, you are going to have HUGE problems.

I would welcome you into my home this week to discuss your situation and go over stuff with you. I am no expert, but I believe I can assist you. I also have a propagation system with a relatively large refugium, I would be happy to clean it out a bit and give your clowns a place to live until such time that you have cycled your tank properly and are ready for livestock.

In Pullman water, in an un-cycled tank, you will be lucky if these poor little guys are still alive by Friday.

As an LFS your BEST bet is really going to be Aquatic Dreams out of Spokane. Bob's in Lewiston is a decent source for livestock, but not for other goodies or advice. Pets in Moscow is also decent for livestock and supplies. Ask for Keith, he's pretty good - Chris is also decent... but over the course of time I have gotten far better feedback and education from this site than any LFS with the exception of Aquatic Dreams. The only problem with Kevin and AD is that his business is really set up for a more advance hobbyist, not a beginner.

PM me through this site and I will get you my contact information.

**JeffDubya** · 09-01-2008, 11:10 PM

The problem with levels being out of whack at this point is there is no biological filter set up and a water change will not solve anything. You need to get the nitrogen cycle in this tank rolling prior to adding livestock.

**MrGone** · 09-01-2008, 11:28 PM

Hey Jeff I sent you a PM

**CarmieJo** · 09-01-2008, 11:53 PM

Shawn, you'd be in good hands with Jeff!

**MrGone** · 02-01-2009, 02:18 AM

I thought I would update, I completely forgot about this thread and forum (it had stopped working shortly after I last posted).

Here is the tank a couple months ago. I never was entirely sure what that green macro was growing in the middle but it died off over the 3 week winter break.

I have since switched to a 29 gallon I found on Craigslist (very lucky). The dominate clown was acting very aggressive towards the other so I wanted to get them in a bigger tank so they had more room and it for the most part seems to have done the trick.

Here is what my tank looks like now (well a few weeks ago, hasn't changed much)

**rayme07** · 02-01-2009, 02:28 AM

That's a very cool and beautiful tank. I like the way you did your rock work.

Looks like you have a hair algae problem In my opinion I would get rid of it before it gets more out of hand. Other than that love your tank.

**Amphibious** · 02-01-2009, 09:12 AM

Hey MrGone, You've come a long way in a few short months. Tank is looking great. Did you ever get test kits?

**jengotfish** · 02-09-2009, 03:37 PM

MrGone, your dominant clown is a female it sounds like your other clown is a female as well, they will fight until someone gives up and becomes the male. this activity is normal. If you want them to spawn I recommend low traffic, not allot of fish and only community fish so that there is no aggression. just a tip. Good luck and congratulations on your new tank!