Refugium Maintenance Do's and Dont's

**Enrique** · 04-26-2008, 03:32 PM

Should the macro algea be cleaned from all the detritus that gets stuck on it?
There are so many pods and living fauna in for example cheatomorpha Macro algea.
But would it become a nitrate factory if not cleaned?

**Skurvey Dog** · 04-26-2008, 05:05 PM

Hello Enrique! That is a very good question. I like to disturb my fuge as little as possible. I do keep the glass clean, but allow a little algae to grow for my snails and I use a turkey baster now and then to blow off heavy sediment on my LR. I also once in a while will use a shish kabob skewer and insert it into the macro algae(I have a large quanity of spagetti

) and give it a little shake to lift off any heavy sediment, all of which rises into the water and is transported to my filter mediums and then to my skimmer. I don't want to disturb my fuge too much as I do not want to heavily decrease the populations of various pods there. The macro algaes and other life forms in the fuge are living off of these nutrients that are coming from your DT. And of course I am no expert, but this is the method that I have found that works best for me and the set up that I have. All systems are different. I will maintain my regiment like this as I have a growing population of mini serpents and they appear to like the fuge and help keep it clean.

I meant also to ask you.... do you have snails and any other life forms besides the pods in your fuge?

**CarmieJo** · 04-27-2008, 06:23 PM

Hello Enrique and

to TR.

I routinely harvest the caulerpa in my fuge and occasionally harvest cheato, this serves to keep them free of detritus. I would not want debris building up in mine. What kind of macro are you growing?

**Enrique** · 04-27-2008, 11:34 PM

I am growing Caulerpa on one corner away from the cheatomorpha that I am also growing. I have a lot of snails in my display tank and I have no snails in my Refugium. Are snails beneficial in the refugium?
Will they do any harm to the living fauna in the refugium?
Can they remove too much algae from the glass and starve all the pods that are always crawling on the walls?
Or on the contrary remove more nitrates by eating the algae?
Do snail feces contribute to nitrates?
I also have another question in which I have found contradicting information all over the internet.
Are bristle worms bad or beneficial for you refugium? I know there are diferent size bristle worms and different species. I also learned that the most common found in aquaria is the fireworm species. I recently Added a piece of live rock to my refugium and I quarantined the rock and noticed 4 bristle worms that were about 2 inches long and about 1cm wide. They had a red pigment and I proceeded to remove them. Better safe than sorry. After adding the rock I noticed really small bristle worms crawling in the refugium millimeters wide and about half a centimeter long. Should I hesitate to remove them? I have read in some places that bristle worms are good scavengers and that they do not kill other species. I also read that people missunderstand them because when they see them eating pods in general they think that they killed the pod but the reality of the situatiion is that either the pod was already dying from starvation or was scavenged and missunderstood.
I am so confused by other sources of information were they say the contrary.
Is removing bristle worms part of my refugium maintenance?

**CarmieJo** · 04-28-2008, 08:17 PM

Snails are beneficial in the fuge and I routinely keep them there. They will eat film algae off the macro. Bristleworms are good detrivores and a valuable part of your clean up crew. I don't think they eat pods unless they are dead.

**Skurvey Dog** · 04-28-2008, 09:15 PM

Are snails beneficial in the refugium?

As CarmieJo stated, snails help keep your fuge clean and are a welcome addition. It is just a matter of preference.

Will they do any harm to the living fauna in the refugium?
Can they remove too much algae from the glass and starve all the pods that are always crawling on the walls?
Or on the contrary remove more nitrates by eating the algae?
Do snail feces contribute to nitrates?

Snails will not harm your macro algaes or your pods as they love that green algae film. There are several different varieties of snails and some are well known for keeping the SB loosened and free of detrius. My macro algaes grow so fast I could have a macro eating monster in there and never know it.

Many people will "trim" their MA to help it grow more and also to remove any dead or dying sections as they consume nitrates and when they die they release those nitrates back into the water. (This is my understanding) I would not be concerned over snails' waste products being a factor in the nitrate equation unless they are dead and/or decaying.

Are bristle worms bad or beneficial for you refugium? I know there are diferent size bristle worms and different species. .... Is removing bristle worms part of my refugium maintenance?

As CarmieJo stated, bristle worms are good and some consider them part of the clean up crew and are not known for eating corals unless they are dead or dying. Some people make an effort to "remove some" when they have a population explosion by manually removing them or by introducing species of live stock that are known to prey on them. I also have them in my Nano and DT. I have only removed 2 so far and that was because they had grown to 8" long in my nano and I had so many. I have some 3" to 4" long come out every time I feed my nano and I like it because they help remove any uneaten food during feeding. They are actually a beautiful animal if one ever really takes the time to examine them. The babies start out to be the typical brown and red bristle worms, but when they start maturing and growing, they turn into a beautiful gray with irridescent blue and pink hues. Hopefully if yours grows another 2 inches you will be able to see the awesome color combinations.

Here is a link to a thread that has photos of bristle worms and one of the members stated that it was highly unlikely that a person had a "fireworm" versus a bristle worm.

There is a lot of "Information" as well as "Misinformation" out there in the public and on the web. I personally will take the advice of someone who is a successful reefer and has been in the hobby for some time any day over something I found on the web or what someone at the LFS told me. I take all information and thouroughly research it. As CarmieJo so eloquently stated one time. Look at the source, and if all those agree with it, then it is more than likely quite accurate. (Advice here on TR) Hopefully others will chime in on this post and give you their HO and suggestions and ideas that were not discussed.

**Skurvey Dog** · 04-28-2008, 09:19 PM

Here is the link to the post as it didn't link in my original post. ;P

http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/ge...-parasite.html

**almondsaz** · 07-28-2009, 12:00 AM

Great question(s) that you have posed in this thread. My understanding of a fuge was that it should be a "Refuge" from any predators. So while snails would be ok, you definitely don't want hermits or shrimp (other than the mysid size) in your fuge. The purpose is to export nitrates and to provide an area for the pods and mysid to grow and thrive. They will eventually make their way to the display tank via the return pump. As was mentioned earlier I do have a nassarius (the larger tonga variety) in the fuge to stir the sand. I have lots of little bristle worms and other beneficial worms in the sand bed. The population of which grows and shrinks as the food source changes. I don;t clean the fuge at all. I was always told that it isn't for looks....its for function. I have found that the algae on the glass seems to provide a great "home" for the copepods which crawl all over the glass and the amphipods like to be in the macroalgae (i have caleurpa prolifera and chaeto and some kind of reddish cotton candy looking MA that the amphipods love). I hope this info is helpful. Again, this is just my point of view.

**badger** · 08-02-2009, 01:35 PM

any advise for someone getting readu to start a fuge in their sump??

**almondsaz** · 08-02-2009, 01:54 PM

Best advice is one you have it set...leave it alone. I hate not to be able to see through the acrylic and see all the little flora and fauna. For some reason I find it incredible fascinating. Once I left it alone, I got blooms of mysid and copepods all over the sump. I have tried a couple of things to reduce the flow by placement of the LR, etc. You will need to prune your macro. I have never had outstanding luck with Chaeto because I could never seem to get it in a "rolling" pattern so all sorts of other less desirable bits get trapped in ti. IMO and there are those with a lot more experience and certainly expertise, is that a deep sand bed in the fuge is a good thing - I would go for the DSB over adding LR. Theory is that you have the LR in your DT so it is a bit of overkill. A small mound of LR Rubble is great to encourage pods to grow. I hope these ramblings help.

If you have any specific questions, ask away.

**CarmieJo** · 08-02-2009, 04:53 PM

I too get a kick out of the micro critters so I occasionally clean a spot on the front of my fuge so I can see into it.

**almondsaz** · 08-02-2009, 05:00 PM

Carmie: I went over the top today and totally cleaned my sump (left the sandbed alone) becuase when I ordered some macroalgae for the fuge a while back they didn't have all I wanted and sent me some "bonus" red cotton looking macro that is great for the pods and the other critters, but heck on the pumps when it breaks loose. So put some filter floss over the return pump area to catch anything that came loose and cleaned all the surfaces of the red pest macro. On the bright side I have a nice big clear view of the LR and all the other critters :-) I spend as much time looking into my fuge as I do my DT. David

Oh and by the way I am very impressed with the TR Forum. Really nice people and solid advice.

**CarmieJo** · 08-02-2009, 05:12 PM

David, I do that total clean out every once in a while too. I too find macro frags on my pump intakes. Consequently I am currently battling caulerpa in the DT and I don't even have any of it in my fuge right now. I think my cherub angel must have kept it eaten up. He went carpet surfing several months ago and I have been pulling it ever since.

I am glad you are enjoying our community. We like to think that we have the nicest forum members on the internet.

**almondsaz** · 08-03-2009, 12:02 AM

I had a real problem in one of my earlier tanks when I tried gracilaria and it grew into the Overflow and really stuck itself on to everything. Was a real problem cleaning out. I know what you mean about the caulerpa. It has its issues as well.

As for the looking at the critters in your sump......are your nerd enough to have a magnifying glass? I confess that I am and use it a lot. Could be old age and the glasses thing or just being a nerd. :-)