Culturing Phyto - Video Podcast Episode 39

[wordley]

Hi everyone, i have just finished my first batch of Nano Phyto.

I thought i would test the phyto with some nitrate strips before i added it to the tank and the reading was a wopping 200ppm

Does anyone know why the reading is so high?
Does fresh phyto have to sit for a while before it can be used?.
I used Miracle Grow as my fertilizer 5ml for 2 litres.

Darren

[Fishie Nut]

Use less Miracle Grow or let it grow longer so as to eat up the nitrate.

I actually used Miracle Grow and Kent Essential Elements, but found the FAF Microgrow was a better way to go. There are very few nitrates left.

[CarmieJo]

Hello wordley and to TR.
Fertilizer always has an N-P-K (nitrogen-phosphate-potassium) rating that tells you what % by weight of these elements is in it. It will look something like 20-10-15, this hypothetical fertilizer would be 20% nitrogen, 10% phosphate and 15% potassium.

[wordley]

Thanks for you comments ill keep the phyto going a little longer

[wordley]

Been growing the phyto for a while now with great sucess however i have noticed one of my bottles of nanno has turned almost brownish colour while bubbleing away, does anyone know why this is happening ? I am lead to beleve it should be a dark green !!!

[Rob]

yes, nanno should stay quite green...
Are you cleaning out the bottles after each split?

[MikeT307]

Rob or anyone else with phyto experience,

Would this method work just the same with isochrysis? I've heard it's a little more touchy with the conditions, specifically lighting.

Have you tried culturing Iso or know anyone that does similar to your Nanno steps?

Thanks,
Mike

[Rob]

yes this method does work with T. Isocrysis
i have found that you just need to add more food to the culture and add more about half way through
so you start on day one, instead of letting it sit for 7 days, on day 3 or 4 you put more fertilizer in there.

[THEJRC]

all,

I couldnt help but notice a few confusions about nitrates and food sources as an ongoing peice here. I continue to wonder why so many are still using the miracle grow formulations when so many better formulations are out there (often cheaper and better to boot). Carmie hit a lot of the nitrate confusion on the head with the NPK profile but it's also important to note that many off the shelf fertilizers have trace minerals that are not needed, used, and often cause problems in marine cultures.

My personal favorite formulation is the good old tried and true Guilliards (aka guilliards F/2, F, and derivatives). With Guilliards simply note that the F stands for full strength and the following number is typically the division of strength used ie. F/2 for half strength. Also important to note that some studies have used the number to delimit additions and changes to the formulation itself but this is rare. Guilliards can be obtained from a number of sources such as florida aqua farms and carolina biological supply.

If your interested in other formulations feel free to look around for them, some of these are necessary for other cultures. I add Silicate to my FAF guilliards for many species that require it, and use many others for other species such as prov for my gymnodinium as it is soil derived and fits the needs better. A good site for those that are interested is the CCMP (provasoli-guillard national center for marine phytoplankton) linked here -
CCMP - The Provasoli-Guillard National Center for Culture of Marine Phytoplankton

If you've got a good interest, do take the time to look through the site, it's chock full of some serious information and you can purchase medium's and cultures directly from the center as well!

[ClearAquarium]

Rob, do you have any idea why my phyto is turning brown. It always happens after the 1st split from the culture disk.

[CarmieJo]

Hello ClearAquarium, to TR.

I don't grow phyto but turning brown sounds like it could be a fertilizer issue.

[rayme07]

Hi ClearAquarium welcome to TR.

[THEJRC]

most likely a contaminate issue, what are you washing your vessels with and are you getting a good clean rinse? Also, what medium are you using (guilliards, the miracle grow mix, etc.). Check temp of your cultures during the split and make sure there are no major differentials between vessels. Also double check salinity.

What species is this (I assume nannochloropsis?), how long are you waiting to split? How dark is the master culture you are splitting from? could be a lot of problems here.

[ClearAquarium]

I rinse with bleach and hot water and then dry. I use micro algae from Florida Aqua Farm, the split and new 1.009 salt mix are in the same room as far as temp which is about 75 F. I purchase my water from a local aquarium store in austin tx, I use nannochloropsis FA. I have been waiting 9 days in between each split. Maybe this is way to long. The master split is very dark, I can't see through it up against my lights. Should I wait less time after the master split. I have started over this week with 2 new fresh cultures in 2 different 1 gallon containers, bubbles going, lights on 16 and off 8. 40 drops of michro algae in each container. Right now both are nice and green. In the past, after I split the master 1 gallons in half, add my water and food, 4 days into the process they turn brown. Maybe they need more food. What do you guys think. Thanks. Check out my web site if you like. Thanks again for all your help. O'yea, i don't have any problems with Rotifers they seem to be very easy.

Welcome :: Clear Aquarium :: Let us take care of your tank!

[THEJRC]

I would up the fertilizer count for sure, or dose a second @ 4 days I use a syringe for adding my fertilizer as I can judge exactly how much is being added. Generally in 1 gallon cultures I add 7.5ml (pretty much full F strength) for CO2 assisted cultures and 4ml for non CO2 assist (F/2 ish). I tend to prefer using 3 liter bottles for my cultures to ease the calculation, typically running 1ml per liter or 2ml per liter.

Co2 assisted cultures I split every 5 days regardless of color and non assisted are split on a 7 day cycle for the most part. I do have a shelf of cultures that I run tests on adjusting fertilizer and split ratio's from time to time to adjust my regimen.

I'd also cut split time to 7-8 days, and up the salinity (I've had best luck in the 1.019-1.022 range) Bear in mind that as SG drops a lot of the organisms will drop metabolism rates Might also try using cold water on your rinse as bleach rinses easier in cold water

I've also found that over time it's best to discard jugs and start fresh, plastic is in fact porous to a small degree and of course theres the whole chemical leeching thing. I typically run a container for 3 cycles before discarding. Every 24 cycles I change and discard my airlines as well. Rigid is changed at each cycle and I keep all of the sticks in a jug of water with humidifier bacteriostat added. When the rigid is pulled it is scrubbed and rinsed and tossed in the jug, a fresh one is pulled from the jug and rinsed before use. I recently started this discard / bacteriostat soak / change out regimen and have had 100% culture success since the start (no crashes). I've also had faster ramp up times on lighter cultures due to better cleanliness and lack of competing organisms.

Also important to note on my cultures, if I need to run cultures for an extended period I move them from Co2 injection and add a second fertilizer dose. Since my goals of keeping cultures is for LIVE cell usage I do not refrigerate and all cultures are fed near direct. Any unused is either tossed or stored on the rack as a maintained culture

[ClearAquarium]

That really helps, I will start uping my food dose and consentrate more on cleanliness. I am also going split earlier than 9 days on cultured splits. Also, thanks for all the welcome from rame07, CarmiJo and of course all the fresh insite. ClearAquarium. I will let you guys know how things turn out.

[sunny d polyp]

Thanks Rob for all you do, you're a wealth of information.
I started a phyto culture the 28th of Dec and split it on the first of Jan.
sg 1.019
ph 8.0/8.2
per 2 liter bottle I added 1.5 mL of Algae Grow f/2
16 hrs of lights per day
good aeriation and good clean culture water r/o mixed with TM Pro Reef salt, It's not getting that dark green color as of yet, as a matter of fact the new 2 liter bottle I made from the original looks a little darker. Its a brilliant color green and you cannot see into the bottle at all. Is this alright? should I in 9 days harvest the culture anyway? Will it keep getting darker or begin to lighten up. Sorry to be such a but I also started a rotifer culture as well as hatching brine to feed my tank.
The phyto is nanochloropsis and the rotifers are brachionus plicatilis (they are multiplying like crazy). I'm also thinking about raising isochrysis to enrich my rotifers and artemedia.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[CarmieJo]

I don't grow phyto so I don't know. But here is a for you.

[sunny d polyp]

Whelp, thanks anyway. Is there a time limit from the time you post until you get a bump? It's better than being ignored completely I guess. I have been trying to get answers on the forum for several issues, one is my culture of Is. galbana, no one seems to know whether or not it's needs are similar to nanochloropsis; like fertilizer, sg, ph and light. I think I may just be posting on the wrong threads or it could be something more serious.

[CarmieJo]

There is not a time limit for bumps and you may always bump your own post. I was out of town over the holidays and have been catching up. When I saw your question wasn't answered I bumped it as I think a lot of people could have been in the same boat as me.

I am going to cross post your question in the AlgaGen - The Talkingreef Community forum. A post there will usually elicit a response from Erik who is very knowledgeable.

[sunny d polyp]

Thank you Carmiejo, I'm new to TalkingReef even tho I joined last year so I'm still trying to acquire the proper etiquette for posting.
This is the best forum available to us that are deeply devoted to this hobby and I thank every one of you that make it possible. I have been a member of Reef Central for a few of years and I have to say I haven't been back there since discovering this phenomenal site. The first Pod cast that I watched was the one for culturing Phyto and Rotifers, I literally watched or 6 or 7 times and now have 2 kinds of phyto (Oculata and Galbana) along with 3 vessels of Rotifers (I.Plicatilis). I'm happy to say that my first endeavor has so far been successful thanks to Rob and the forum. Please keep up the great work and also I would be honored to help out in some way to show my gratitude. Please feel free for you or another admin to send me a pm to tell me how to help keep this forum going.