Culturing Phyto - Video Podcast Episode 39

**wwest** · 08-11-2006, 12:59 PM

I to had my first crash this week. except for i beleive it had to do with the temp of where is was being stored. when i came home and found the crashed phyto the temp was 91.5 degrees.

**m8298** · 08-12-2006, 11:50 AM

Are either of you using Miracle-Gro? I was gonna ask if a culture could be re-started with some from the fridge. I haven't crashed yet, but I do get a bit of settling. I've been filtering it out though a paint filter bag that I doubled-up and made a filter similar to the one Rob uses. I'll probably break down and buy the one he posted the link for, not sure. The one I made does seem to be working.

**wwest** · 08-12-2006, 12:34 PM

yea im using MG. everything is good untill the temp gets to high then it all settles to the bottom. i had some in the fridge as well and restarted it in a diferent location a cooler location lol and everything is working perfect again. actually it seems like the colder it gets the healthier it looks but im not sure about that yet.

**m8298** · 08-12-2006, 02:39 PM

Mine as been going really well, growing quick, getting dark, it just seems like there is a fair amount settling also. Is yours like that when it is going good too?

**wildeone** · 08-12-2006, 03:16 PM

I think that setteling may have something to do with the MG because I have very little. I mean almost negligable setteling, thats why I see no need to strain it.

**wwest** · 08-12-2006, 07:03 PM

i have settling in mine. if you remember the vidcast of robs container thats what mine looks like. but i thinking about cutting the MG down alittle and see what happens. it could possibly crash but oh well...

i took a filter bag and made my own like the one rob had. $1 for the bag and i cut the bottom out of a plastic cup and glued it to that cup and then cut another cut and slid that over the first cup sealed up perfectly and it works really well also..

**CarmieJo** · 08-13-2006, 12:26 AM

I was at a saltwater meeting today and a question was asked about culturing phyto. The speaker indicated that you should always filter it because whether you are using Miracle Grow or something designed for aquariums it should not go into your tank. This is due to the metals and the nutrients in it. It made sense to me.

***Rob*** · 08-13-2006, 01:59 AM

the filters that are in question here are the 53 micron plankton filters, these will not filter you the metals or other elements, so thats almost besides the point.

i recommend filtering, as i get mush stronger cultures when filtering on each split.

do you have to? no..

but you just be cause you can drive a car with your feet, does that mean its the best way..

sorry, thought it was funny, so i threw it in there...

**jorge_omar23** · 08-14-2006, 01:09 AM

I started my cultures using tap water, previously being sterilized in the microwave. In some cultures I had problems with settling and not in others. I guess this was because of the bulid up of too much nutrients (F/2, salt mix and tap water).

Now I´m using RO/DI water and I dont have any more settling (clumping). I read that settling occurs when there´s excess of Calcium, Magnesium or Phosphorus.

I guess this means that adding too much nutrients can inhibit the phitoplankton growth.

**m8298** · 08-15-2006, 05:43 PM

I bought a better air pump than the old one I was using, turned up the bubble rate and my settling was greatly reduced.

That point with Calcium, Magnesium, or Phosphorus is kinda interesting, I hadn't heard that. I am using Reef Crystals, which means there is probably a surplus of Calcium and Magnesium. It's what I use on my tank, maybe I should buy some regualr Instant Ocean for my culture.

**jokeloma** · 08-17-2006, 09:35 AM

I have made three cultures from phycopure and done a split, so far so good.

**AlgaGen** · 08-17-2006, 06:25 PM

That is great! In testing the PhycoPure we were able to obtain a bloom even after 7 months in the refrigerator. The thing is, we did not design PhycoPure to be used as a starter. And have found with many cultures that the longer it sits in a container in the refrig the more tricky it is to use as a starter...it has to be nursed back into shape which can be time consuming with not always 100% success. In my opinion it would be much better to buy starter, a mono-culture, and use it specifically for culturing purposes.

Truly anything in a bag or bottle that has some level of shelf life is a product designed for convenience...just my opinion. If you (hobbyists in general) want the best results I suggest buying clean starter, not PhycoPure, not DT's, not PhytoFeast.... IN the past we experimented with large scale cultures of mixed microalgae(Phytoplankton) and got growth but did not get the same performance achieved by using a fresh monoculture, and inevitably one or two of the species took over the entire culture.

We are very proud of PhycoPure, alot of work goes into the product but once again I feel for culturing purposes one should purchase starter specifically for that purpose.

Regarding nutrient..I believe one can over do it as well and create limitations on growth or kill the culture. I think of it like over fertilizing a plant. Once again I worry about using MG in algal culture. I worry (not scientifically substantiated) about excess heavy metal in the trace component and its final affect on the corals. We have access to starters as well as lab grade f/2 media. If you can't find any contact us.

***Rob*** · 08-17-2006, 06:41 PM

Awesome Erik..
i appreciate the reply and honesty about the products and what there designed for..

**jokeloma** · 08-17-2006, 07:19 PM

My choice was purely out of convenience. I could not obtain a starter locally and did not want to pay the shipping. I had tried a starter from FAF several months ago but it crashed likely due to something I did wrong.

Time will tell if this works out, Ideally I would love to have many different strains going or together. Miracle grow most likey has some things in it. I used the food I had purhased from FAF.

I understand and agree that what ever results I have will not give me the quality or biodiversity Alagens products provides to the hobby.

**wildeone** · 08-17-2006, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by AlgaGen

And have found with many cultures that the longer it sits in a container in the refrig the more tricky it is to use as a starter...it has to be nursed back into shape which can be time consuming with not always 100% success.

I suspected this Erik, thanks for confirming it. I had one crash since I started and I was able to innoc again with some I had in the fridge. Since then, I have been been more consistant in marking my storage dates and rotating the jugs so I always have the freshest to start again if I have to.

I do have a question though, can I get your lab grade F2 from Seahorse Source, or do I need to go to you? And does f/2 need refrigerated?

***Rob*** · 08-18-2006, 01:12 AM

i do know that seahorsesource has the stuff i use (micro algae grow)
i do not refrigerate it

**m8298** · 08-19-2006, 10:06 AM

Rob how much Micro Algae Grow do you use per 2qt culture?

**m8298** · 08-19-2006, 10:15 AM

Nevermind, Rob. I found where you said 1 tsp per gallon of medium.

So where can you buy F/2?

This thread has made me paranoid about my Miracle-Gro use. I kinda had the mindset that if it was good enough for Melev, and his tanks are awesome, then it's good enough for me. But when someone says there may be long-term effects from the metals in it...

***Rob*** · 08-19-2006, 04:58 PM

here is the stuff i use
http://www.seahorsesource.com/cgi-bi....cgi?id=201150

and from a seller i know and trust, have had very good experience with them

**AlgaGen** · 08-21-2006, 08:03 PM

Wildeone, SHS has the f/2. I refrigerate because the vitamins are an organic (B12, thiamin). Super concentrated solutions such as Fritz are not refrigerated. Dan at SHS said he does not refrig his and it has been fine. Perhaps out of habit I do it.

**Paintbug** · 10-30-2006, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by AlgaGen

Truly anything in a bag or bottle that has some level of shelf life is a product designed for convenience...just my opinion. If you (hobbyists in general) want the best results I suggest buying clean starter, not PhycoPure, not DT's, not PhytoFeast.... IN the past we experimented with large scale cultures of mixed microalgae(Phytoplankton) and got growth but did not get the same performance achieved by using a fresh monoculture, and inevitably one or two of the species took over the entire culture.

im looking to start my own culture of phytoplankton. mainly to feed my current tank, probably will start some rotifers in the future, and then shrimp or something else. starting with a monoculture of Nanochloropsus. would it be possible to also grow a culture of another algae or more, keeping them all seperate. then mixing them together as one to make a feeding culture? if so what would be a good mix?

im looking to get the MINI CULTURE KIT from Florida Farms. they also sell Nannochloris, Tetraselmis and Isocrysis culture disk. should look else where for some cultures? any advice will be helpfull!

**Nyles** · 10-30-2006, 02:50 PM

Last podcast reffered to Isocrysis as the one to have.. Mixing in tank would be fine. See episode #73

**Paintbug** · 10-30-2006, 02:58 PM

man i love this place!! thanks for the info

**JustDavidP** · 10-30-2006, 03:46 PM

Welcome Paintbug! Yeah... I kinda like this place too

Dave

**AlgaGen** · 10-30-2006, 05:04 PM

We can supply clean liquid starters if you are interested.

In most cases starting a culture from a plate is the way to go. The idea behind using a plate is to pick single colonies to obtain as clean a culture as possible. Also storing algae plates/discs is easier. The down side of starting from a plate is that it can take days for the culture to "come-up" and if you select for single colonies it can take 1week or more.

If you use clean (no contamination minimal amounts of bacteria) starter from a test tube or other source you will be in slime very quickly...Something to think about.