let's try it again!

[mysterybox]

My acros are not growing that much, and when phosphates exceed higher than 0.024 & nitrates are higher than .5, the tips of my acros recede, grow algae, and then they will die unless I correct the nutrient situation. I have a "makeshift" fuge in my sump with live rock, sand, & caulpera, & I have a CPR fuge (small) with Chaeto in it. Both algae's do not grow very fast. I have some diatoms & cyno in my tank. What do you think? Here's my tank.

web page with pics:

Ralph's main.html


Fish: Yellow Tang, Royal Gramma, 2 False Pecular Clownfish, 2 Blue-Green Chromis, 2 Dragonface Pipefish, Talbot's Demoiselle

Stony Coral: Rose Millepora, Green Millepora, Blue Tortuosa, 2 Tenuis, blue bottlebrush, Montipora Capricornis, Orange Digitata, Montipora Purple Digitata, Turbinaria Peltata

Other Inverts: Crocea Blue, Crocea Green, Peppermint Shrimp, 1 Emerald Crab, a few Scarlet & Blue Leg Hermit Crabs, Astrea, Cerith, Top Crown, Zebra Turbo, Nerite & Nassarius Snails, Blue Tuxedo Urchin, Black Brittle Star, Various Bristle Worms, Feather Dusters, Euniclid Worms, Pods

Equipment: 55 gallon drilled 48" tank, 30 gallon sump w/ refugium (race caulpera), additional CPR refugium Chaeto & Xenia, ASM G-2 skimmer (mod pump), 2 150 watt AB 13K metal halides w led, 2 phosban reactors 1 phosar 1 carbon, APC 950 backup battery, 3,000 watt generator, Aqua medic doser for 2 little fishes 2-part or B-ionic, Cooling: sump fan, 2 Tunze Turbo Streams 7095 controller 3,360 gallons per hour


Parameters: Alk: 11.2/4.00, Calcium: 450, Ammonia 0, nitrites: 0, Nitrates: 0.470, Phosphates: <.024 (merk), Silica: 1.9, PH: 8.2, Salinity: 35 or 1.026 , Temp: 80F (moving to 82F due to Eric Borneman’s advice and a few other credible sources. Strontium: 9.02, Magnesium: 1300.

My tank is shallow, so I went with 2x150 which Eric Borneman, Mike Paletta, Sanjay, & Fenner all said would be plenty. My bulbs are AB, so they should last at least a year. My flow is awesome. Alk & calc is great & steady. Mag is steady. What could it be? Too many fish? Nutrients? I am confused, Thanks!
Ralph

[CarmieJo]

I think the nutrients are the issue. The question is where they are coming from?

[lReef lKeeper]

what kind of lighting do you have on the refugium ?? macro algae needs light to thrive and reduce nutrients in the tank.

BTW ... your tank is way to small for a yellow tang. these fish cover miles of reefs in the wild and NEED a lot of swimming room.

[mysterybox]

I think the nutrients are the issue. The question is where they are coming from?

I feed my fish 3 small cubes of hikari brine shrimp soaked in Selcon with 1 cube of spiruella (so) brine daily

3x's a week I also feed either frozen or dehydrated cyclopeeze

2 to 3's a week I feed my corals oyster eggs

I feed my very happy & very, very, very healthy Tang Nori soaked inSelcon 2to3's a day.

That is it. Food is gone in 30 seconds to 1 minute. Light for cpr five is flurescent that comes with unit other five is like a 22 watt 56k compact flouredcent

[CarmieJo]

Do you rinse the brine?

[lReef lKeeper]

where are the acros placed in the tank ?? with only 150w halides at 13k (IIRC, the par on the bulbs is very low), i would recomend placing any light demanding coral up high in the tank. i would not suggest less than 175w, but would recommend 250w. a buddy of mine runs 2 250w 10k's on his 75g, and it is only a few inches wider than a 55g.
BTW ... the tank is still to small for the tang. no matter how happy and healthy it seems.

Yellow Tang (Zebrasoma flavescens)

this says 75g, but IMO, that is still to small. i say at least a 6' tank.

[mysterybox]

Do you rinse the brine?

I barely rinse the brine, so I don't wash off the vitamins & selcon) & Hikari does not have a lot of excess crap(that is visible to me). I portion up a weeks worth of food in individual miniature Tupperware containers while they are frozen at 4 per container. I place 2 drops of selcon and place them all back in the freezer except for one, which is placed in the fridge to defrost overnight. When I'm about to feed, I empty the defrosted cubes in a brine shrimp net over my sink to drain. I pour a small amount of water in the container and pour that in the net to remove the rest of the shrimp that was stuck in the container. THIS IS ALL I DO TO RINSE.

However, let's start there. How about I start rinsing the brine, but since it is brine and not very nutritious, and Selcon seems to keep the fish healthy (and they will not eat any mysis, not one!), what would you suggest i do? Should I maybe defrost, rinse, than add Selcon? Add selcon just before feeding? Is that too much food? Should I stop the cyclopeeze?

[mysterybox]

[QUOTE=lReef lKeeper;63403]where are the acros placed in the tank ?? with only 150w halides at 13k (IIRC, the par on the bulbs is very low), i would recomend placing any light demanding coral up high in the tank. i would not suggest less than 175w, but would recommend 250w. a buddy of mine runs 2 250w 10k's on his 75g, and it is only a few inches wider than a 55g.
QUOTE]

I realize that my tank could support 2 x 250 MH. The research that I did with those incredible 4, suggested that I would be "better off" with 2 x 150 since my tank is very shallow. They thought that it would be too washed out with light, and that I would have a lot of heat related issues. However, at this point, that is what I have, and I know many people that have the same lighting, and they are very successful with it. I thank you very much for your comments and help!

[mysterybox]

Do you rinse the brine?

maybe should I stop soaking everything with Selcon? Maybe should I just soak the nori with Selcon for the tang?

[CarmieJo]

The reason I ask about rinsing the brine is because the medium used to freeze most foods contains phosphates. I feed mysis and I soak it (and everything I feed) in vitamins and garlic. Here is what I do. I take the mysis and thaw it in a strainer. Then I rinse it with RO, let it drain a couple more minutes and then soak it with vitamins. Especially good call to enrich the brine as you are 100&#37; correct about its nutritional value. I would hesitate to thaw, rinse, soak and refreeze as I think that would degrade the food. I don't try to thaw and rinse Cyclopeeze as I think it is so fine I would loose most of it in the rinse process.

[mysterybox]

thanks!
may I ask what brand of vitamins & how much? Do you think I might be overdosing with selcon & or
food?
I will immediately start rinsing as you have stated! We might have a start to something!
thank you!
ralph

[CarmieJo]

Hi Ralph,

I use a couple of drops of Marine Zoe by Kent. Since I don't think that any one food, even soaked in vitamins, is sufficient nutrition for every fish or coral in your tank I feed a wide variety. Right now I am feeding Formula 1 & 2 flakes, frozen mysis, Cyclopeeze, ORA Gold granules, DT's Phyto, and Coral Frenzy. I have to make another batch of fish mush which I make with a variety of seafood, nori, and Cyclopeeze. Sometimes I feed a couple times a day and sometimes every other day.

You said that all the food is cleaned up in 30 - 60 seconds so I don't think you would be overfeeding and I don't think that 2 drops of Selcon is excessive.

[mysterybox]

I think rinsing my brine might have been a factor. I'll try for more variety and do what you do! Thanks!

[CarmieJo]

keep us posted. I am interested in seeing if this keeps your phosphate from creeping up.

[mysterybox]

Thanks! I will!

[V]

Ok, I took my 9mm & shot the tang! Can we now get to my problem, please?
Thanks!

ha-ha, cheeky

[mysterybox]

keep us posted. I am interested in seeing if this keeps your phosphate from creeping up.

Dear CarmieJo,

I really appreciate the great.......scratch that.........AWESOME follow-thru that you have given me! That is very rare & special. So, I just want to say, "Thank-you!".

Ralph

[mysterybox]

Hey CarmieJo,

two questions
1. I shut my return pump down when I feed (once a day). Is that ok?
2. I timed the feeding today, and it's actually about 3 to 4 minutes for my fish to eat every crumb! OK?

Thanks!

[CarmieJo]

Hi Ralph,

Thank you for your kind words. I am glad I have been able to help.

I always turn my return pump off when I feed and leave it off for a half hour or so. I let the powerheads in the tank run so that the food mostly stays suspended. The reason I leave the return off for a half hour is so the corals can eat too. Conventional wisdom says that it should take <5 minutes for your fish to consume all the food. What I do is feed mine in little portions over 5 minutes. I just figure this way the fish actually eat more of the food and less ends up uneaten and trapped in the LR.

[mysterybox]

corals looking better already! Crazy! Also, Halmeda has just started growing crazy & Calc Algae, too! Thanks so much!
Just a head's up that it was phosphates (again!).
RECAP:
I think you figured out what I was doing to myself! Hikari frozen has very little liquid & stuff in their cubes. I would take 4 frozen cubes of Brine Shrimp (or whatever), put it in a container, drop Selcon on each cube. I would just put it back in the freezer, and I would take out 2 containers at a time and put in frig to thaw. Feeding time, I would just tale out the thawed product, and I would put it in a net to drain. NO RINSING (I wanted the vitamins to stay!) DOH!

Corals are recovering already!
Thanks!

[CarmieJo]

I am glad to hear that your corals are looking better!

[mysterybox]

I tested phosphates (Merk) about an hour after feeding < 0.024. I also tested my RO water just in case =0.0

[CarmieJo]

Hopefully this will resolve the tissue recession problem.

[mysterybox]

dramatic results so far! All corals will recover with the exception of 2. One millie I lost about 2 months ago, and I have a beautiful purple bottle-brush that is 50-50 right now. I think he'll make it. All others are not only starting to heal, but are starting to grow. I think changing the ROWA/PHOSAR reactor every 2 weeks has helped a lot also. However, that was the band-aid, not the fix! Thanks for your diligence! I'd give you a hug if I could!

[mysterybox]

As Carmie fixes phosphate problem plaguing Ralph's Reef for 2.5 years................just in case you missed the other thread to the same topic...................................



Dear Carmie,

I really appreciate the great.......scratch that.........AWESOME follow-thru that you have given me! That is very rare & special. So, I just want to say, "Thank-you!".

Ralph



corals looking better already! Crazy! Also, Halmeda has just started growing crazy & Calc Algae, too! Thanks so much!
Just a head's up that it was phosphates (again!).
RECAP:
I think you figured out what I was doing to myself! Hikari frozen has very little liquid & stuff in their cubes. I would take 4 frozen cubes of Brine Shrimp (or whatever), put it in a container, drop Selcon on each cube. I would just put it back in the freezer, and I would take out 2 containers at a time and put in frig to thaw. Feeding time, I would just tale out the thawed product, and I would put it in a net to drain. NO RINSING (I wanted the vitamins to stay!) DOH!


I tested phosphates (Merk) about an hour after feeding < 0.024. I also tested my RO water just in case =0.0

dramatic results so far! All corals will recover with the exception of 2. One millie I lost about 2 months ago, and I have a beautiful purple bottle-brush that is 50-50 right now. I think he'll make it. All others are not only starting to heal, but are starting to grow. I think changing the ROWA/PHOSAR reactor every 2 weeks has helped a lot also. However, that was the band-aid, not the fix! Thanks for your diligence! I'd give you a hug if I could!





Corals are recovering already!
Thanks!


let's talk some numbers on the solution (not the band-aids) that FIXED the issue
eric.....3 sites no solution
fenner...no
sprung........no
reefcentral.........no
web sites.................no
lfs...................................no
books.................................no
ARC.........................................no
randy...........................................no
boomer...........................................n o
marine depot.....................................no
tunze............................................. ...........no
ripasso........................................... ............no
prozac............................................ .................no
CARMIE!........................................... ..................YES!