DSB Substrate Grades

**rroselavy** · 10-24-2007, 12:19 AM

Hello-

I did a fair amount of research recently about what grade of Aragonite substrate I wanted for a DSB. I decided against Southdown, only because there seems to be none on the west coast, and shipping it (if you can find it) seems prohibitive.

What I ended up buying is 4x30# bags of dry Aragamax Sugar-Sized (oolitic) sand (0.2mm-1.2mm) plus 1x20# bag of Aragalive (1mm-2mm). My thought was to place the courser Aragalive sand on top of the oolitic sand.

Now I am having second thoughts about the Aragalive. I bought it because it was "live" sand, and also to help keep the finer oolitic sand from getting blown around as much. Now I am thinking that it will be easier to keep detritus suspended with a finer substrate, and that the courser (1-2mm) substrate may not be ideal for some sifting inverts (not sure about that).

Any suggestions? I already have 4" of the oolite in my newly-cycling tank. I am just wondering if I should bother with the Aragalive sand.

Thanks!

**CarmieJo** · 10-24-2007, 12:25 AM

Your sugar fine sand will become far more live from the bacteria and critters on your rock than from anything in a bag.

Once it has a biofilm on it you will not have problems with it getting blown around.

**rroselavy** · 10-24-2007, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by CarmieJo

Your sugar fine sand will become far more live from the bacteria and critters on your rock than from anything in a bag.

Once it has a biofilm on it you will not have problems with it getting blown around.

Thanks. Great points...I think I will save the Aragalive for another tank...

BTW: Buying the Aragamax and Aragalive (total of 140#) from drsfostersmith saved me a bundle on shipping. Marinedepot and PremiumAquatics wanted premiums for shipping. Marinedepot even tacks on an extra $12/bag (apart from shipping) just because... I got the 140# from drsfostersmith shipped to California for $13 total.

**Amphibious** · 10-24-2007, 06:28 AM

Carmie is right on, on both points above. Also, DSBs are most effective when the finest sand particles are utilized. I don't know if, during your researching DSBs, you found articles by Dr. Ron Shimek. He has written extensively about DSBs. Here's a link to my site where you will find a thumbnail picture of his book, "Sand Bed Secrets".

aragonite

Drs Foster and Smith, from my home state of WI, is my favorite source for things I can't get through my wholesale vendors. Easily one of the best run businesses in the industry. I highly recommend them.

Dick

**PSH** · 10-24-2007, 07:10 AM

DR. F&S shipping is the best. I get 5 buckets of Reef Crystals for $13 in shipping. The Fed ex guy isn't all too happy though.

**NaClFinatic** · 10-24-2007, 11:53 AM

I havethe sugar fine substrate in my 90g. After over 4 months, I still need to be careful of the placement of my Tunze 6060 (1600gph) as it will blow the substrate around. (There is also a 1200gph Tunze6045 and at least 450gph from my return in the tank.) It is seriously deflected by the rocks to reduce the force of it. So I would say that with very high flows the super fine sand might not be the best choice. But being what Shimek reccommends and it looks good so I still like it. I plan to get a smaller or variable powerhead so I don't have the blowing issue. Also I will spread some more smaller rock peices around to help disrupt the heavy flow accross the sandbed. I got some of the seafloor special grade (forget what the size spec is for this) to topoff my refugium DSB and some low spots in the display but IMO it does not look as nice as the sugar fine. I should get in the sand in this weekend so I will update on how it works out compared to the sugar fine.

**rroselavy** · 10-24-2007, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Amphibious

I don't know if, during your researching DSBs, you found articles by Dr. Ron Shimek. He has written extensively about DSBs. Here's a link to my site where you will find a thumbnail picture of his book, "Sand Bed Secrets".

Thanks Amph-

I already read it from your site a while ago. I will probably re-read it now that I have things underway. Just skimming the article now, I see that Shimek recommends an average particle size of 0.125mm. The Aragonite I used is advertised as 0.2mm-1.2mm, but the Caribsea site says "0.1mm average small particle size, 1.0mm large particle size" They offer screen sizes of their other substrates, but not the Aragamax. I remember reading a webpage where someone screened Aragamax and listed the particle size percentages. Can't seem to find it now. I am guessing that the Aragamax will do well, even if it doesn't have the finer particle sizes of Southdown.

BTW: Has anyone tried pulverized limestone? I just ran across this as I was searching for the grading article...

Drs Foster and Smith, from my home state of WI, is my favorite source for things I can't get through my wholesale vendors. Easily one of the best run businesses in the industry. I highly recommend them.

Drs Foster and Smith also uses the bio-degradable packing material, which I really appreciate. Marine Depot still uses styrofoam pellets...

**rroselavy** · 10-24-2007, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by NaClFinatic

I havethe sugar fine substrate in my 90g. After over 4 months, I still need to be careful of the placement of my Tunze 6060 (1600gph) as it will blow the substrate around. (There is also a 1200gph Tunze6045 and at least 450gph from my return in the tank.) It is seriously deflected by the rocks to reduce the force of it. So I would say that with very high flows the super fine sand might not be the best choice.

NaCL-

I hear ya. My new tank has one Vortech powerhead (100-3000gph), and even set close to the lowest setting it slowly blows a trough through the sand. I have an opening between to massive pieces of LR, so I think some of the water is channeled through there, causing the trough. Not too bad however. I am sure the placement of the Vortech will take a bit of trial and error. The biofilm will help, no doubt...

I should get in the sand in this weekend so I will update on how it works out compared to the sugar fine.

Sounds great! Please do..

-Scott

**CarmieJo** · 10-24-2007, 07:28 PM

My Southdown, bought from a guy who was tearing his reef down, blew for months but now it is pretty stable.

**NaClFinatic** · 11-04-2007, 10:19 AM

Sand update

I now have my refugium setup. I put 25-30lbs (3-4") of CaribSea sugar sized (0.1-1.0mm) down then covered that with another couple inches of CaribSea seafloor special grade (1.0-2.0mm though I thik it is actually a little larger than that).

And the verdict... I think it gets blown around just as much. I couldn't use a MJ1200 in the fuge (half of a 30g tank) and had to reduce to a MJ400. However, there is no biofilm there yet either so that may help quite a bit. I know in the 90g display with sugar sized that I could only run an MJ1200 for at least a week or two.

The one huge advantage that I do see to it is that there was no coulding of the water when I filled it. Even when it gets blown around. So I was quite impressed at how clean this substrate was. I expected it to be covered in some dust. It was nice to be able to immediately start circulating the refugium with the main water system.

So I like it but still prefer the sugar sized based on Dr Shimek info. I would use this larger seafloor size for a SSB.

**CarmieJo** · 11-04-2007, 07:16 PM

Are you still seeing two separate layers or is it starting to mix?

**NaClFinatic** · 11-04-2007, 07:41 PM

It might be mixing some but there is definitely still a difference in the top vs lower portion. I have the flow low enough to not blow it around too much and there isn't really anything in there to mix it up yet. (Only trochus snails so far.)