need hair algae ideas

[Astrivian]

Okay...remember in the tank maintenance podcast where i said i have a bryopsis dominated tank? well i am not kidding. The hair algae is out of control! It is covering everything, even coralline algae. I need some ideas on how to control this crap. First let me give you a rundown:

• Tank size: 100 gallons.
• Sump/fuge: 75 gallons
• Salinity: 35 ppt
• pH: 8.2
• Temp: 80 to 82 (depends on outside temp)
• nitrate, nitrite, ammonia: All zero, not that i would be able to detect any nitrate with so much algae anyhow.
• KH: 10
• CA: 320
• Lighting: 2 38-watt T5 bulbs 10,000K
• Deep sand bed.
• Coralife Super skimmer (rated for 220 gallons).
• Two ocellaris clownfish (about 1.5 inches long each)
• Two sea urchins (Caribbean hitchhikers)
• I had 10 hermits.
• Flow: two Maxijet 1200s, Quietone 750 return pump.
• Cycle: Tank and dsb have been up and running since May 07.

The food i use (flakes) does not contain any nitrate or phosphates and i only feed a very very small pinch twice a day. The fish eat just about every flake, although a few float over the overflow into the sump.

I use, and have always used, RO/DI water. I also use IO Reef Crystals salt mix and have been trying to get my calcium levels up.

In the sump, there is a huge (basketball size) ball of chaetomorpha algae and even some ogo. There is a Light of America light pointing directly into the sump water on top of the algae. It is on 20 hours a day.

The lights up top are on for 10 hours, and i have tried turning them off for several days, to no avail.

I know the two key nutrients must be coming from somewhere, but where?

Here are some plans i have for this crap:

• Purchase: 3 fire shrimp, 2 emerald mithrax crabs, 24 blue legged hermits, 24 scarlet hermits, 15 cerith snails, 12 margarita snails, 15 nerites.
• Rearrange the structure of the sump so that all of the tank water (instead of just half) flows over the dsb before the skimmer.
• Add 50 pounds of base rock, or cheap live rock, to the sump.
• Remove all of the live rock from the display and scrub it down. I know this is not a great idea but i cannot remove the algae via siphoning. While this is appart, i will give the sand bed in the display (not the dsb) a good cleaning with the siphon to take out any dead animals.

Any ideas or suggestions? This hair algae issue is like none i have ever seen. The dumb stuff has stopped all of my progress to this point. I cannot add coral until i add more lights and i cant add more lights because the algae will just take over the tank.

[Phurst]

Is it hair algae or bryopsis? They are 2 different things. Either way, it sound like you're on the right track. When I first set up my tank, I bought my salt water from a LFS that used RO/DI, but I used tap for my topoff. When I swithed from 20K bulbs to 10K, the algae just exploded. It is receding now, slowly, due to several actions on my part. I was growing cheato in my hang on fuge, but it wasn't very much. I rearanged my sump and moved some down there with lighting and have been letting it grow without pruning. I have stepped up my water changes from 10 gallons a week to 20. I have added 2 phosban reactors. one with carbon, and one with phosban. Also, I have been removing it manualy as best I can. i just pull out whatever i can reach and put it in a bowl of fresh water, so i can dip my fingers in it and get all the little pieces off. This allows my cheato to absorbe more of the free nutrients and out compete my hair algae. After a good round of manual removal, i also blast my rocks with a powerhead to blow off all the detritus that was trapped by the algae.

If it's Bryopsis, similar methods should work, and you may want to look into the magnesium thread on Reef Central. I can find the link if you need me to.

Basicaly, you need to find out where the nutrients are comming from. They are there, or your algae wouldn't be growing.

Battling algae is also one of the few times i would advocate using a UV filter to kill off the free floating spores and whatever little pieces get broken off, so they can't attach somewhere else.

[lReef lKeeper]

Calurpa is also an EXCELLENT nutrient exporter and could help starve out the the hair algae or bryopsis, which ever it is.

[Amphibious]

I am battling the same enemy and it is a pain in the reef!!! If you have trouble getting your Calcium up, I would strongly suggest testing your Magnesium. Mag is directly related to the ability of raising Cal levels. NSW carries Mag at 1250ppm. My guess is your Mag will test out at 850. With proper dosing you should be able to reach 1400ppm giving you a bit of leeway.

[Astrivian]

Hey thanks all. Yes i need to test Mg, which means i need to get a kit. I suspect it is quite low. However, i am about to move to calcium chloride (dow flakes), Epsom salts (mg sulfate) and washing soda (sodium carbonate) as a supplemental routine, according to a recipe by Randy Holms-Farley.

Also, thanks for the claupera suggestion Bobby. I used to have lots of it (now that i think about it, i had lots of it before the hair algae outbreak) but it was all eaten by my oxynoe, which is now dead (didn't find out what it was and what it ate until just before it starved). I will add some to my Marine Depot order.

Another thing i was thinking: maybe i should get a phosphate test kit anyhow. It might be worth testing my RO/DI water just to make sure it is clean.

[Astrivian]

Oh, and i thought bryopsis and hair algae were the same thing? Are they completely different or different species?

[CarmieJo]

Samuel,

When we went on vacation the beginning of July I came home to a tank full of HA. My BTA split and the clone died. My tank sitter would not have known to look for the clone. She also fed a packet of flake food every day instead of every other day. By the time I got home the HA had taken over. It is finally starting to get under control.

What I have been doing is manually removing the HA. It is getting easier to pull off the rocks which is a good sign. When I do a water change I pull at least one rock out and scrub it in a bucket of change out water. I then swish it in another bucket of change out water so I don't add fragments back into the tank. I can now sometimes siphon globs of it off, something I couldn't do a few weeks ago. I have been changing my water more frequently, 10% twice a week instead of weekly.

I grow both caulerpa and chaeto in my sump. I think that pruning it regularly encourages it to grow and enables it to take up more nutrients. During this episode neither has grown much at all.

[JeffDubya]

I am batting some of these same issues. Today my LFS hightly recommended a Rainford's Goby (Amblygobius rainfordi) to me.

Apparently if you are looking for a critter to eat some of this nuisance algae, there's no better way to go.

[Astrivian]

That's good to know Carmie. I have noticed mine comes off of the rocks easier now.

Part of the problem, i have now discovered, is the complete lack of hermit crabs and any HA predators. Why? Something is eating them apparently. I had something like 15 hermits and all that's left is empty shells. Typical. Time to find the damn mantis, which, i think, is a major cause of the problem. Check the progress. I think i know where it's home is, and now those rocks are going into the sump!

Oh, speaking of which, does it matter if HA is growing in the sump? At first i didn't think so, but i guess it would allow spores and sections to get sucked back up into the tank.

[CarmieJo]

Samuel, I've heard of people growing HA in their sump with a if you can't beat them join them philosophy.

Jeff, I had heard that about Rainfordi's goby too but my research showed it is an omnivore that may eat filamentous algae. I haven't given one a try.

[Astrivian]

Hmm, interesting point Carmie. Last weekend i started the second step in fighting this crap. The first step was to remove the mantis rocks into a separate tank. I will let him get hungry and lure him with some shrimp. The second step, a major one, was to rearrange the entire sump. Now, all my water flows: DSB w/ chaeto --> skimmer --> carbon + phosphate sponge --> return. Hopefully this will boost my denitrification.

Step three: get the inverts.

[RockDoc]

I don't know if this is a popular remedy, but several friends and myself have had excellent results using "Marine S.A.T." to eradicate hair algae. It is reef safe and doesn't destroy "good" algae. It is a live bacterial culture that competes with binding sites of the HA, so you need to turn off your UV sterilizer for 10 - 12 hours when you use it. Within a week you will see the HA turning brown, and then it quickly disappears. It is an excellent sole or adjuct HA approach.
Since I haven't seen much written about it here on TR, I wonder if it is out of favor for some reason I'm not aware of. All I can say is it has worked for me in more than one tank.
Jay

[Phurst]

I have heard of it, but never knew anyone who had used it. I assume after the algae dies off, you have to do a massive water change? Still need to address the root cause too. I've been looking for some localy off and on, but haven't seen any yet.

[Mr. Tang]

Have you tested your RO/DI unit yet??? I wonder if your problems are from there??

Mike

[CarmieJo]

I think that Rob used Marine SAT and actually mentions it in one of the podcasts. I hate to add anything to my tank that I don't have to but was to the point of considering it. I think it is like when I finally used Chemi-Clean for cyano (which I also got while on vacation with a different fish sitter). I had fixed the problem, added flow, and kept siphoning the evil stuff but it kept coming back. So I finally broke down and used it. It is effective when the underlying problem is corrected but probably a waste of time if it isn't.

[doctorthompson]

The second step, a major one, was to rearrange the entire sump. Now, all my water flows: DSB w/ chaeto --> skimmer --> carbon + phosphate sponge --> return. Hopefully this will boost my denitrification.

Step three: get the inverts.

I'd seriously consider putting the skimmer first. Anything the skimmer is going to take out it is going to take RIGHT out (rather than "banking" it like macroalgae). Skimmer -> DSB -> Macroalgae -> Carbon -> Phosphate sponge. Careful with the calcium dosing if your DSB is in your sump, localized pH swings are the cause of "fusing" or "clumping" in aragonite substrates. (FWIW: the idea that a DSB will become fused or clumped due to nutrient accumulation is a myth, if it happens it is almost always due to localized pH swings)

Pluck out what you can by hand, do as much as you can every day - and keep up with regular water changes and replacement of your carbon and phosphate media -- and without even having a clue how much carbon you're using I feel confident in saying you could probably use 50% less. For a 175 gallon system you could probably get by with 4-5 tablespoons of carbon (100% changed weekly) if it's in a high flow area and not sitting passively in the bottom of a sump chamber. At the very least the carbon and phosphate media should be rinsed with RO water to clean off any detritus and to prevent any nitrifying bacteria from taking hold.

Don't go overboard on inverts or you won't be able to support them when the algae is gone - and it will eventually be gone! Algae waxes and wanes in cycles, so have patience, keep it off your corals, and enjoy the extra denitrification in the meantime!

My $0.02 (Canadian funds, which are actually worth something these days!)... sorry I'm so late to the party on this thread.


PS. What's the full pH range of your tank? is 8.2 the high or the low? I've found hair algae has a very hard time taking hold in my display tank since I've started keeping my daily pH in the 8.6 to 8.8 range. 8.8 is still well within range for most reef livestock -- although I wouldn't recommend a peak pH higher than around 8.5 for newcomers to the hobby or anyone at risk of water quality problems, even brief ones. A slight short-term ammonia spike that would go unnoticed in a mature tank at a pH of 8.2 could be deadly in a younger tank with a pH of 8.8.

[Phurst]

Hey Doc, how do you get your PH up that high. I don't think I've gotten much ober 8.3.

[doctorthompson]

I know the two key nutrients must be coming from somewhere, but where?

I'm the only person in my circle of local reefkeeping friends who buys phosphate test kits... in 6 out of 7 of my friends tanks that had detectable phosphate there was also a huge (anywhere from 2oz to 6oz) bag of carbon sitting somewhere in their system that hadn't been changed or even rinsed in over a month. All granular activated carbon can potentially cause elevated phosphate levels. If I remember correctly, this is due to the phosphoric acid used to wash it at the end of the manufacturing process...

[doctorthompson]

Hey Doc, how do you get your PH up that high. I don't think I've gotten much ober 8.3.

Kalkwasser. Mostly added as "slurries" - up to 1.5g of calcium hydroxide paste squirted in front of a powerhead or manifold return over a period of 60 seconds or so - at night in the dark so our stupid stupid stupid lyretail anthia doesn't burn her mouth trying to eat the paste, which can have a localized pH of up to 13!! This should not be done without a calibrated electronic pH meter in your other hand (and you should stop squirting when it says 8.7!!!), nor done anywhere upstream of a DSB - I have a couple of MJ-1200s below my return manifold that are aimed almost straight up to keep the surface agitated so I typically dose above one of those - the kalk stays in the top 1/3 of the tank until it dissolves. There are other factors to take into account as well, such as how much calcium your tank uses and, thus, is capable of absorbing - or you risk a snowstorm of calcium precipitate. Anthony Calfo covers the kalk slurry method quite will in his Book of Coral Propagation.

[Phurst]

Hmm, very interesting. How far away are you measuring the pH with your meter? Other side of the tank? Think it would be OK to dose slurry into my overflow? I've read Anthony's overview of the slurry on WWM, just never tried it except ocasionaly when my ATO kicks in while I'm mixing in kalk in my top off tank..

[doctorthompson]

Hmm, very interesting. How far away are you measuring the pH with your meter? Other side of the tank? Think it would be OK to dose slurry into my overflow? I've read Anthony's overview of the slurry on WWM, just never tried it except ocasionaly when my ATO kicks in while I'm mixing in kalk in my top off tank..

I kept the probe in the middle of the tank, split the amount of calcium I had measured out (plus an extra 10% or so during the period I was trying to get the pH up). If it hadn't gone up a full 0.1 within 15 minutes I'd add the second half, otherwise the second half went into the top off water for a slow 8 hour drip. Anthony says it's safe to raise it by up to 0.2 in a 24 hour period but I preferred a localized increase of 0.05 or so every 3 days -- I was and will always be a bit paranoid about kalkwasser.

I confess that I haven't used a pH meter in about 4 months (ok, so I'm not THAT paranoid), just a calcium test kit and a digital postal scale to measure the calcium hydroxide -- but my calcium needs are very minimal (although much more than I thought they'd be, those sun corals use calcium like crazy). I also use a few mL of saturated kalkwasser (just the clear solution, no sediment or grit) to bring up the pH of replacement water for water changes if needed. To be honest, the slurry method probably isn't a very safe way to increase pH, and I think the only reason I didn't kill anything in my tank was probably because I took 3 months to get the average range from 8.0-8.4 (too low and too wide!) to the current 8.6-8.8 range -- a reverse lit refugium was also added to help maintain that range.

Dosing into your overflow would result in precipitated calcium carbonate settling in your sump and not getting to your corals, a calcified buildup on your return pump, possible fusing of any DSB in your sump, and you'd also miss out on most of the beneficial phosphate precipitation since any phosphate in your system will tend to be in higher concentrations in your display water, not your sump water.

Hrmmm, we've strayed WAY off topic now haven't we? Perhaps this should have been it's own thread

[SoCalReefer]

i have an eel in my 10 gal tank, along with some live rock and a few shrooms, and uncontrollable HA. The hermits in there, are pruning it down the best they can. I also have calurpa, cheato, and red grape algae in there but the HA is overgrowing it. My eel is small but i think he is dishing out too much waste. I only have a hang on filter with mixed media, that i change regularly. The tank has been up for almost 5 months and i've never battled with HA like this before. She's one mean mother to get rid of.

[doctorthompson]

i have an eel in my 10 gal tank, along with some live rock and a few shrooms, and uncontrollable HA. The hermits in there, are pruning it down the best they can. I also have calurpa, cheato, and red grape algae in there but the HA is overgrowing it. My eel is small but i think he is dishing out too much waste. I only have a hang on filter with mixed media, that i change regularly. The tank has been up for almost 5 months and i've never battled with HA like this before. She's one mean mother to get rid of.

A 10g tank? Just pluck out all the hair algae you can, manually. Do this every day for the next 7 - 10 days, and also start increasing the size of your weekly water changes from whatever your current water change schedule is. I do 50% weekly changes in a little 5g tank I recently set up with a bunch of yellow and black sun corals - cuz salt is cheaper than filtration equipment! I'd get rid of the media from the hang-on-back filter other than maybe carbon, as long as you change it regularly... using small amounts and changing 100% of it at a time can be extremely effective: no more than a tablespoon (yes, 1 tbsp) of good quality carbon placed in a small filter bag and changed weekly should keep dissolved organics to a minimum.

Caulerpa is quite noxious to keep in a tank this size, your shrooms and your eel might both do better without it.

Consider adding a small powerhead aimed perpendicular and slightly below the flow from the hang-on-back filter, the extra flow and turbulence from the intersecting currents will get more bang-for-the-buck out of your live rock.

[SoCalReefer]

That seems like it should work, I do 25% water changes weekly so I guess I'll increase that. Pulling it out manually is an epic task. BTW noxious, how so? When it gets pruned?

[doctorthompson]

pull out what as much as you can handle every day, keep a glass of freshwater handy to rinse your fingers/tweezers/whatever in each time before putting them back in the tank.

noxious as in the chemicals it releases to prevent being encroached upon by other plants/corals