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Thread: End of my rope - Tank Issues all around

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    Apprentice mcastfalk's Avatar
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    Red face End of my rope - Tank Issues all around

    I really don't know where to begin here. I've been doing this since last April and things started out fine - fish only with live rock tank, 30 gallon, penguin bio wheel filter, eventually added a protein skimmer. Read Paletta's book (own it) "The New Marine Aquarist" It really helped me.

    Then about last July I had a complete die off in my tank. I had been using a quarentine tank, but the employee at That Fish Place advised me against its use saying I would stress the fish. Taking his advice, I placed unquarentined livestock in my system. After a couple weeks, I had a complete die off due to either over population in a young tank, ich or both.

    I got my act together and quarentined for 30 days regularly. But now I'm having major issues again and I can't figure it out. I'm about ready to throw in the towel. Here's what's going on can someone PLEASE help me out that has experience in this?

    A. Quarentine Tank. This is a 10 gallon tank I had used years ago (maybe 25?) for freshwater fish. Bare bottom, pvc pipe and plastic planters for the fish to hide. Simple air pump hooked up to a simple sponge filter for bio filtration. This is how the manuals all say to do it. I also keep the salinity low, typically 1.012.

    Lately, I can't seem to keep anything alive for more than a few weeks in the tank. Even more so, it doesn't cycle completely. I clean the tank out after each use with a water and bleach solution. This includes the sponge filter, which I rinse thoroughly along with the rest of the gear. I then cycle it for 4-6 weeks using just a small bit of frozen fish food to rot in the bottom. Ammonia drops, but I can't get the nitrites to drop bellow .5. When I ask the local dealer about the cycling issues they tell me I need something living in the tank. This particular dealer only stocks the easier to keep species of fish. I had been having good success with the fish he has - so I purchase a fish. The last two fish devolped velvet and/or ich and died in the third week. Furthermore, they never helped in cycling the tank - the nitrite levels just would rise and the nitrates would stay around 10, never going above. The first fish to go was a clown, the most recent one was a 6 line wrasse. Both fish were kept during separate quarentine periods and were extremely healthy up until the 3rd week. The clown developed velvet, the wrasse seemed to get ich. Both fish died shortly after - even though I began to treat the tank with SeaCure copper treatment. After putting the seacure in, my bio filter just went through the roof. Even partial 1-2 gallon changes didn't seem to bring ammonia & nitrites down. That's $50 worth of fish in a period of about 4 months. What am I doing wrong????? How do I properly cycle the quarentine tank? Is the bio filter not big enough? Is the sponge not able to hold bacteria any more due to use in copper treated water and/or the bleaching process in breaking down the tank? I could never keep more than one fish in the tank anyhow - this always caused a die off eventually and I learnd to do one fish at a time. That's a SLOW process to stock a display tank.

    Needless to say, I did buy a new 10 gal tank at walmart along with a small mechanical/bio filter from Marineland. This will be my new quarentine tank. The old one did start to leak and I was in the process of replacing it when I noticed the wrasse had ich. I'll give it another shot, but I would really like to have some hand holding from someone who has experience in keeping saltwater tanks. I'm hoping your forum can help.

    B. Display tank. Has 3 fish, two pajama cardinals and one firefish. Tons of snails and hermit crabs, one arrow crab. The big thing with this tank is that I recently upgraded the light to a 96 watt 50/50 bulb. Bought a 36 inch Coralife fixture to accomodate a future tank upgrade. Coraline alagae was growing great on the rock (about 30 lbs) up until this point. I get my water from the local grocery store which has a Culligan filtration system. Ive tested it numerous times & there's no problem with the water. All my reading in the tank are fine - all zero on Ammonia, Nitrite and about 5 on the Nitrates. Regardless, I now have a tank that is being overcome with hair algae. The crabs (did have about 50 of them) don't seem to eat it, then they just die off. I added a shipment from GARF and that didn't help, made it worse - the GARF Grunge added diatoms or some kind of brownish algae in to the tank. I now have algae growing in my protein skimmer (which I empty about every 2-3 days or so). I have algae growing on everything. I scrub it off and it comes back with a vengence.

    Basically, between the quarentine tank and the algae issues in my display, I'm about ready to hang it up. I've gone way over budget on all of this spending close to $2k. That's a heck of a lot of money to keep only 3 fish, crabs & snails alive in a tank. All the warnings I've had from people (most of whom NEVER had a fish tank) saying that saltwater is tremendously hard hobby seem to be coming true. The forums and the books lament the loss of hobbists and say that this really isn't as hard as it seems.

    Can somebody please help me out before I become a statistic? E-mails are greatly appreciated, starting with the quarentine issues especially.

    Thanks.

    Michael

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    Insightful Reefer PreauxPhoto's Avatar
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    I feel you pain Michael I've been there. first off dont throw in the towel yet you've ome to the right place there are many people here that can and will help. starting with me.

    A. it seems to me that everything you put in your QT seem to come down with the same problem.

    Ich is most often brought into the tank on new fish or plants (not if they are quarantined!). However, it is also believed that some survivors of an Ich infection can become latent carriers, with the parasites forming a latent stage at protected sites such as the base of fins or the gills. it usually takes about 3 weeks from initinal contraction for it's free floating stage for you to be able to see it on your fish.

    i would guess that it might be coming from you LFS this will usually apply if you keep buying fish from the same place. try going to a new store and see what happens. do you see ich in the store on other fish? most stores have one large filtration system for all the tanks so if one fish is sick they all can get sick.

    B. I'm battling hair algae also as alot of us are. first thing is keep pulling it out of the tank keeping as little of it from floating around as possible. next try to remove as much phosphate as you can for your tank by either getting a phosphate removal system such as a phosban 150 or a phosphate removing filter pad these are usually cheaper and can be found a LFS they are an aqua/green color. then shorten you photo period. hair algae id photosynthetic shorten you photoperiod and it will greatly inhibit it's ability to thrive. my tanks light are on for about 8 hours a day while I'm trying to get rid of it.

    well I'm don't ranting you'll get alot more advice here and i hope we can help you through this to keep the hobby alive with at least one more person.
    My idea of an amusement park story is getting adventurers to go tour environmental disaster areas. After all, if the entire Great Barrier Reef gets killed, which seems like an extremely lively possibility, what are you going to do with all that rotting limestone?
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    Grand Master Reefer Amphibious's Avatar
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    Hey Michael, Welcome to TR and to the saltwater hobby. It seems you have been bitten, got your feet wet, experienced tragedy, got discouraged and need help. All that seems normal to me. Just kidding. OK, first bit of good news, you've come to the right place. TR has a growing number of knowledgeable reefers willing to share experiences and lend a hand. And, Rob keeps us under a watchful eye to be sure our advice is appropriate.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's sad but oh so true, "The worst place to get advice on saltwater aquariums, be it FOWLR or a reef system, is your local fish store (LFS)". That seems to fly in the face of reason but after 60+ years in the hobby, thats my opinion and it's echoed through the ranks of reefers around the forums. So let's see if we can get you back on track.

    First, it's always a good practice to quarantine, keep up that good habit. Your 10 gallon QT is a bit small but workable as long as you understand it's limits. The quarantine tank doesn't need to be elaborate but it does have to meet certain criteria. It needs some kind of biological filter. Some people would say a sponge filter is adequate. Not in my opinion unless it is large and properly seeded. The QT should not be set up new to house a fish, it should be aged. It's purpose is to allow the fish (or whatever) to relax, adjust to captivity, allow diseases to manifest their presence, allowing you to treat them, allow the fish to adapt to foreign food and gain strength, all in a peaceful environment.

    My personal experience taught me to use water from the display tank to fill the QT. That is assuming your display tank water is of optimum condition. Have a small amount of sand covering the bottom of the QT. Use a biological filter that is seeded with bacteria. Employ a UV Sterilizer. I like to use a couple of pieces of carved out coral rock for hiding places instead of PVC. (My preference) I have not used copper in 40 years. It is a killer, unpredictable and too easy to overdose. My choice is to keep a Vortex DE filter on the QT for the first two weeks. They can be a pain in the butt to use but, are worth every penny of their cost if used properly. Fish in QT should be fed anything you can get them to eat. Don't spare the cost here. If they will only take live food, provide it in abundance and try dry or frozen at alternate feedings times. Monitor the QT water conditions at least every other day. Change water, if needed to maintain optimum conditions, from the display tank. Keep new water on hand to replace the display tank water. By using this system you can maintain the proper salinity 1.026 and accomplish the goal of QTing, which is to bring your fish back to health from the rigors of capture, holding, transport, holding again, transporting again, holding again and finally transporting to your LFS. Realize, during all this time in transit to your LFS they are not fed!!! Or fed very sparingly.

    I hope this helped you with the QT part of your questions. I'll give others a chance to get in on the discussion. I have more to say but need to get something done first.

    Dick
    Amphibious

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    Master Reefer Astrivian's Avatar
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    Welcome to TR!

    Welcome to TR Michael! i have some words of encouragement for you regarding your problems. I started in this hobby about a year ago after two complete failures. To demonstrate you are not alone, let me explain:

    Failure #1: No reading, research, or advise except from my LFS, which was a large national chain Pet something (*ahem*) who seemed more interested in selling me stuff than ensuring my success. They too said i needed a living animal in the tank to cycle it. So i added some water and salt, then a damsel, then more salt. Yea, i mixed the salt in the tank with the fish What can i say, we all start somewhere.

    Failure #2: Tried to make my own custom tank. Very bad idea.

    But, then i came onto Talkingreef. I listened to Rob's podcasts at least 5 times each, read through the threads, and started reading books. Now, i have a 100 gallon tank almost set up and finished. You have come to the right place my friend.

    So, advice regarding your issues.

    Cycling
    My first thing to say is to not cycle a tank with a fish, or any other animal, in it. Personally i think it is cruel; like stuffing a person into a room with toxic air and hoping their lungs will filter out the bad stuff. Not only that, but that fish will be so stressed it will likely die. The simplest way i have found:

    1) Mix up your water and such.
    2) Get a cup of water, sand, or a piece or two of live rock from another hobbiest and add it to the water.
    3) Use Rob's table shrimp method. Add a whole uncooked shrimp (i.e. human food shrimp) to the tank and let it rot.

    Fish stress

    A huge mistake i made in the beginning was impatience. When you get a new critter, think in weeks, not days. I used the "bag floating" method of acclimation the first few times. I just floated the plastic bag in the tank water, added some water here and there, then dumped the fish in. I lost every fish i have ever acclimated in this way. My suggestion is to try the drip acclimation. Grab some cheap airline tubing and create a slow siphon of about a drip per second. Add the fish to a clean bowl (or something ridged and larger than the bag) and let the water from your QT fill the bowl. After several hours, like 2 or 3, net the fish and quickly add it to the QT. Do not add the water from the store into your tank! I have introduced all sorts of diseases by doing so!

    When in the QT, give the fishie time. I am still haunted by the ghosts of the damsels, angles, and dottybacks i have killed with my impatience I would get all excited and add the fish to the display in a few days, where it was chased, harassed, stressed, then eventually killed by the other inhabitants. Most of them would have been fine if i had left it some time to chill out first. Try leaving it in the QT for 2 to 3 weeks or longer, at least until it starts swimming and eating normally.

    One last note: I don't trust bleach. It takes so much rinsing to clean the residue off of the equipment. If you have a wine and bear making store in your area grab some no-rinse sterilizer that uses oxygen. Take a look here. this stuff uses ozone to kill bacteria and such and leaves no harmful residues.
    Samuel

    "If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards the ocean with me.... There is magic in it. Let the most absent-minded men be plunged in his deepest reveries--stand that man on his legs, set his feet a-going, and he will infallibly lead you to water, if water there be in all that region."

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    Curious Reefer reefer_stc's Avatar
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    Have you tested the water you are using for water changes for phosphates? The reason you have a lot of algae growth is because of excess nutrients. If you don't mind that it's not so "pretty", I'd recommend letting the back wall of your tank grow freely with algae, and just giving it a good trim every now and then. This should act as a good export of nitrates, phosphates, and nutrients. I believe there is an actual name for this method, but I can't remember it as of right now. What kind of snails and hermits do you have? Your hermits may be carnivorous, and thats why they are not consuming the algae. Also, having too many snails and hermits may throw off your water quality as well, especially in a smaller tank- it's just more your biofilter has to take care of. How much LR and LS do you have?
    Scott

    *Information that I provide is a combination of knowledge and personal experience, which should not be taken as "The Word", but simply as a personal opinion.

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    Grand Master Reefer Seahorsedreams's Avatar
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    One thing you'll find out is that we all have different opinions on everything! Here's a little QT article from out "spin-off" site, if you will. ReefReaders

    I had 3 uncycled tanks going for a year... all with seahorses in them. Last week I finally placed the last 2 horses in their display. I use the sponge method and the rest of the stuff is "artifical". A tank with any sort of biofilter should not be a hospital tank... which it becomes when you add any medications in there. Ya, after copper you will need to seed a new sponge. I always toss mine after I finish a QT... they are cheap. And I pull it out if I need to medicate. Frequent water changes are a must and products like Amquel+ and Ultimate are heaven sent. The common denominator in all nuisance algae problems is nutrients/organics. There are all sorts of contributing factors but without the nutrients the algae will not grow. And once it is established it is definately difficult to get rid of.

    What is your pH and alkalinity in the tank with the hair algae? I'm sure there are nitrates in there with all the hermit deaths... probably only minimally detectable because the hair algae is consuming it. And inverts don't particularily care for such a low salinity.

    I use bleach with everything... but I also use a use a de-chlorinator and let that sit awhile before rinsing.

    As you can see we really do have many different ideas on how we do stuff. And it is perfectly fine to pick out different pieces of peeps advice to follow.... just make sure the different pieces fit together. Sometimes it is better to stick with one person's method if it is doable for you. Or at least when you have a game plan after reading everyone's advise, bring it to us to see if there is any problems with it.
    Renee

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    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Hi Michael & reefer_stc, to TR.

    Michael,


    Don't give up. You've found a great community and we can help you work through this.

    As you can see, we have different opinions concerning methods of performing QT but not on the necessity of QT.

    I think that your cycling questions pertain to your QT tank, not your display. I don't try to cycle my QT tank. I keep a sponge filter in my display tank's sump so it is already biologically active and use water from my display to fill my QT when I need it. I test for NH3, NO2 & NO3 every other day and use water changes to manage water quality.

    I presume you are using hyposalinity as a anti-parasite strategy. Others may disagree, but I only use hyposalinity if I am fighting a parasitic infection, not as prophylaxis. Regardless, are you gradually lowering the the SpG or taking the fish from the LFS, acclimating it and putting it in a tank with a SpG of 1.012? Even if you drip acclimate for a couple of hours that would be pretty stressful for your fish and could certainly lead to ich. Any time you are using hyposalinity you should gradually lower the SpG over the course of a few days.

    As far as your the algae in your display, thinking back, did it start about the time you got your new lights? That is pretty common. Whether it started then or not, I'd suggest that you leave your lights off for a few days. It won't hurt anything in your tank except the algae. When my tank was new I fixed my diatom algae problem by accident. We went away for the weekend and I hadn't bought a timer yet. When we came home Sunday evening and I turned the lights on my tank was beautiful! Not a diatom was in sight!

    Depending on how much HA you have you may want to scrub your LR first. Save the water from a water change, scrub the LR with a brush and then dunk and swish it in the old water before returning it to your tank.
    Carmie


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    Master Reefer JayBeDriften's Avatar
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    Hello Michael,

    Welcome to the Talking Reef. Don'y give up on your Aquarium yet. There are many individuals here that will be able to give you the time and advice that are needed to provide a flourishing Aquarium or Reef Aquarium. Just take a step back, relax and listen carefully. These people here are better then a local fish stores advice would every be.

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    Insightful Reefer salt-rookie's Avatar
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    NUMBER 1...DO NOT QUIT!

    A. 10gallon OT is very small! Yopu have to have biological filtration. Sponge will work, live rock will work, a protein skimmer will help. Try a sponge, seed with Biozyme, and do your ammonia drops. DO NOT stop feeding the nitrosomas bacteria and nitrobacter bacteria when the nitrItes peak.....continue until ammonia and Nitrites BOTH hit zero, do a 25% water change and give it a try. Get the specific gravity up to at LEAST 1.024. Hyposalinity will surpress the symptoms of ich and most other parasitic infestations, bu will NOT erradicate them. Also elevating the temp to 82-3 degrees Farenheit will hatch out the ich and make it easier to kill. Much like cryptosporidium in drinking water. Penetrating the case is the toughest part of the battle.

    If you quit now, the $2K is wasted...you will regret the loss every time you see a tank! That which does not kill you makes you stronger! In this hobby, the TOUGH lessons learned are NEVER forgotten! Good Luck!

    Phil

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    We are not all the same.I work at a LFS ,and I have helped many people save their stock.The problem is people not the stores.Honesty is first,if I dont know I say so.I ask many questions then come here for help if I cant.I give all my customers this site at the risk of ticking off my boss ,wich I do often.Everyone here is great but its kinda mean to say that all LFS are incompetant.

  11. #11
    Our Brotha Down Unda
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    wow, thats a story.

    salt rook, i differ with the bio active QT, not a given & dependant on whats being QT



    Vquilibrium Productions

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    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Penny, of course all LFS are not incompetent and I believe that most employees really like animals. Unfortunately some employees just aren't educated and they give bad advice. I think it is hard for a beginner to sort out whether the advice is good or not. We have several LFS here that I would purchase fish from but only 1 that I would send a beginner to. This store would take the time to find out how long the tank has been up, what is currently stocked, and the experience levels of the hobbyist. I would discuss a problem I was having with some employees at the other LFS but would filter it through what I know. Then we have the big chains that have some saltwater where I would neither buy fish nor trust their advice. I don't even think it is all about money with the LFS as some do. I think it is about educating the owners and employees and giving advice that is appropriate for the level of the hobbyist.
    Carmie


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    Apprentice mcastfalk's Avatar
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    Exclamation I didn't give up....

    All:

    I've been trying to figure out how to respond to everyone at once to this thread. Don't know if this will do it, but I'll try to respond to each of you separately if needed. I really appreciated all of your input and I look forward to more advice and participating in this forum.

    Here's what happened: I posted this thread back in late May. I read all the replies and wanted to reply back with some questions. Unfortunately, my computer was fried after a series of electrical storms during Memorial Day weekend and the first week of June. I've never seen anything like this - the first storm blew out my router AND on-board NIC, then the second storm blew out the new NIC I had installed in the computer (yes, I tinker with computers AND fish tanks, I just don't know how to use online forums that well). Needless to say, I didn't get back online until the end of July after the insurance company had its go around with me about the computer.

    My new computer is up and working and my e-mail is now active again.

    Here's where I'm at with the fish tank:

    I haven't been able to rid the tank of the green hair algae. I tried covering the tank for a week, scrubbing it off, picking it out - I even tried a "natural" algae removal product that DID work, but it made my skimmer foam and then the algae came back anyhow. I also tried removing a few pieces of live rock and treating them in a separate bucket. I still have a few more to put back in the tank, but I'm not hopeful this will do much since the algae is still in the tank.

    Recently I started to remove my substrate, which was the large coral chunk type, and replacing it with smaller substrate. I'm hoping that this will stop some of the growth since there was algae all over the larger substrate. I then started to do 10% water changes every week NOT every other. This, for now, seems to keep it at bay but doesn't rid the tank of the hair algae.

    The QT:

    I bought a new tank (still 10 gal, I don't have room for anything else). I also added to this a small power filter from Wal Mart to help circulate the water in addition to the foam biological filter I had already. It also did seem to help me to cycle the tank with a piece of store bought shrimp. I now have had two tank raised ocelaris in the tank for 3 weeks. Levels seem to be ok. Salt water is at the salinity of the display tank. This is the time where I would loose the other fish, the 4th week of quarentine. Hopefully that saga is over.

    Again, forgive me for not responding. It was virtually impossible for me to get to the web without my home computer.

    I'm full of more questions and will be posting more when I get a chance.

    Thanks.

    Michael

  14. #14
    Grand Master Reefer Amphibious's Avatar
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    Hey Michael,

    Welcome back!!! I'm glad you didn't give up. Quitters never win, winners never quit.

    The one thing that struck a note with me in your last post was - "Recently I started to remove my substrate, which was the large coral chunk type, and replacing it with smaller substrate."

    I'm assuming it is crushed coral. Keep getting rid of it if possible. While it looks good, it traps everything, uneaten food, detritus, dead animal carcases breaking down, etc. This could be the source of nutrients fueling your algae problem. If you can find it use Aragonite sand either a shallow sand bed (SSB) 1 to 2" or a deep sand bed (DSB) 4" minimum. I prefer a DSB because 4" or more allow both aerobic conditions in the top layer for cycling Ammonia and Nitrites and anaerobic conditions in the deeper layers for cycling Nitrates into Nitrogen gas which is released into the atmosphere. You will find reefers on both sides of this issue.

    In an established tank, such as yours, it may be too difficult to do a complete change. Only you can determine the amount of work/effort you are willing to put into the project.

    Hope this helps.

    Dick
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  15. #15
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Michael,

    My first thoughts were exactly the same as Dick's. If the algae went away with an algae remover (BTW what product did you use) and then came back there must be nutrients coming from somewhere. What are your water parameters?

    I had a really bad HA outbreak when I came home from vacation in July. My fish sitter had overfed and my BTA split and the clone died but of course the fish sitter didn't even know what to look for with that. So there were plenty of nutrients in my tank.

    Of course I am back to feeding correctly. I have been doing an lights out for 2 -3 days each month. I don't think that this will get rid of the algae but it does weaken it. (I plan to continue with this as general maintenance in my tank. The water always looks great after I do this.) I have continued with my 10% weekly water changes. I have scrubbed some of my rocks in buckets of change out water but only the couple that are easy to remove. The HA is weakening and is now mostly easy to pull out. So, I have been siphoning the water into a jug with a fine mesh carbon bag rubber banded in the neck. The HA is often loose enough that the siphon pulls it out in clumps. The bag traps the HA and I dump the water back in my tank. I've been doing this almost every day.

    I think that getting the HA that is loose and must be starting to die out of the tank is important. I bet your nutrient levels in your tank and all close to 0. Why? Because the HA lockes them up. But, if it dies and decomposes the nutrients are released and feed a new generation of HA.
    Carmie


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    Apprentice mcastfalk's Avatar
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    Dick & Carmie:

    I am replacing the crushed coral substrate with an aragonite substrate, CaribSea's Flamingo Reef. However, I too had a bed at least 4" deep of the crushed coral. I'm only removing the top 2" of the coral and then adding the Flamingo Reef in on top of it. I want to keep the deep bed and thought that the lower half of the coral would allow for good flow of water through the substrate.

    I did about 3/4 of the tank's substrate the other day. I'm going to remove the other side of the crushed coral's top layer today (after I'm done posting). I'll let that sit for about 24 hours, then add the rest of the Flamingo Reef in on that side.

    I just did my water tests for this week. Except for the Nitrates (at about 5-10), it is all zeros for both the Ammonia and the Nitrites. PH is about 8.2 (but my lights were off,so this was the closest color I got and what I expected). This brings me to another question - I use the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kit. I bought the main test kit when I got the tank for all 4 parameters. I recently had to replace the Ammonia chemicals because I ran out. The card that came with the new chemicals has colors on it that are WAY darker than the one that came with the original kit. Which one should I use? I'm suspecting that the newer card is off and I should use the old one, but are the cards formulated as a standard or are they formulated to reflect the chemicals they're packed with?

    Also, I"ve never been able to get the Nitrates down to zero. Close, but never zero - unless I'm reading it wrong. Perhaps it is the size of my tank (30 gal). I also recently had two Mexican Turbo Snails that I JUST bought die in the tank. The hermit crabs, peppermint shrimp and brittle star had quite the feast.

    The product that I used to remove the hair algae was purchased at a local pet store but it is available on the web. I may get some more and try it again after my substrate is settled in. It is called STOP Hair Algae and is from a company called Chem-Marin (Chem Marin, Inc.). Seems to be more of a hobbyist driven company than a big corporation.But I'm only judging from the web site. What I liked about this product was that it was A. Natural, B. You apply it directly to the algae using a modified syringe applicator, C. It did seem to work. I had to go back and apply it a few times, but it did get rid of algae that I would put it on.

    Michael

  17. #17
    Grand Master Reefer Seahorsedreams's Avatar
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    I guessing the Stop Algae stuff doesn't list active ingredients on the side, does it?
    Renee

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    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Nitrates of 5-10 are not outrageous but zero is achievable and desirable. I would guess that the detritus trapped in the crushed coral is responsible for you not being able to get it down to 0.
    Carmie


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    Apprentice mcastfalk's Avatar
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    It has one ingredient, but I discarded the bottle. It is supposed to be all natural and reef safe.

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    Apprentice mcastfalk's Avatar
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    We'll see. I finally switched the top 2" of substrate over to the smaller grains.

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    Expert Reefer doctorthompson's Avatar
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    A reading of 5-10 with the AP kit (or any "yellow-to-red" liquid nitrate test) isn't all that bad since your actual nitrate levels are probably somewhere between >0.5ppm and <3.0ppm.
    If it's within your budget, consider grabbing one of the Salifert nitrate test kits to use while monitoring your nitrate levels over the next couple months and see if the extra substrate is being effective. They tend to be more accurate for nitrate measurements.

    For curiosity's sake, if nothing else, I'd probably test and record the readings of both a Salifert kit, which measures Nitrate-nitrogen (NO3-N), and the existing AP kit, which measures “total nitrogen” not just nitrate-nitrogen. If you want to compare numbers between the two kits you'll have to multiply the Salifert result by 4.4 (ie. 10ppm with a Salifert nitrate kit == 44ppm with an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals kit). If the numbers don't jive your AP kit might be past it's shelf life.
    Lucas "Doctor" Thompson

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    umm idk if anyone has said this but someone told me on one of my posts that biowheels create nitrates. as a matter of fact it was CarmieJo
    love the weather in memphis so unpredictable!

  23. #23
    Grand Master Reefer Amphibious's Avatar
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    More correctly...

    The Bio wheel doesn’t eliminate Nitrate and therefore it builds up. Nitrate is a natural part of the “cycle” and is present in every aquarium. Without an anaerobic area to convert Nitrate to Nitrogen gas the bio wheel is less than adequate as a filter on a marine aquarium.

    Dick
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    Apprentice Captinsmooth's Avatar
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    Not sure if this has been mentioned in the other post but your specific gravity being at 1.012 is a drastic change on any fish that you are adding from a fish store. Typical spg is 1.022- 1.026 for most places. It is said that no more then a .003 change in 24 hours in your tank is recommend. Anymore then this can be not only very stressful but damaging to your fishes internal swim bladder, due to drastic osmotic pressure change in the fishes environment. This alone could kill your fish.

    Also just adding new substrate on top of the preexisting and not stirring in to the existing substrate will kill any living organisms or helpful bacteria that was in preexisting substrate already. Also raising your levels to a dangerous amount .

    Good luck with getting things straitened out. It sounds like you are on your way.

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