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Thread: My Chunk of the Ocean

  1. #26
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Hello Matthew,

    It is good to see you back. Wow! It sounds like you have been pretty frustrated. What are the parameters of your tank now? I know that you have RO water do you know what the TDS is? Could it be time to change your filters? Since you are using RO we can probably eliminate water as a source of phosphates. What are you feeding? Some frozen foods have phosphate in the binder.

    Until we get your tank under contorl I would advise not adding anything else to it. How are you acclimating your snails? How long do they lve?
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    Curious Reefer nbkcu33's Avatar
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    I did a 10% water change yesterday so I waited to check the parameters, which are:
    Salinity = 1.025
    Ph = 8.6
    Alkalinity = Above 300
    Nitrate = 50
    Nitrite = .5
    Calcium = 360
    I have just finished my second bottle of Stability and the numbers are still not changing. I have been adding a Buffer and both parts of Tech CB. Nothing seems to be helping. I am at the point I am ready to pay someone to come in and get this tank stabilized or I might end up selling it. I really do not want to do that.

    I am feeding the same frozen food since I first added the fish. I do not have the bag in which the slab of Mysis shrimp came in.

    The RO system is a whole house system the flushes itself every thrid day. There are no filters to replace.

    ANYONE, PLEASE HELP!!!
    Last edited by nbkcu33; 08-06-2007 at 08:49 PM. Reason: add information
    Matthew
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    Curious Reefer sscheitel's Avatar
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    stability chemicals are not the answer...but I think you know that now.

    Feed the fish every 3rd or 4th day...

    Do 50-60% WC's every other day...

    But you need to find the root of the problem in order to solve the issues you are having.

    The WC's will only stunt the issue and buy you time to figure out what the issue(s) are.

    How new was the rock when you put it in your tank? Were the tank was new were the parameters near zero? and than they went haywire? What changes did you make?

    Hang in there...don;t ditch the tank....see maybe if you can find a place for your fish and corals until you get to the bottom?

    Good luck....Let us know.

  4. #29
    Master Reefer Small Fry's Avatar
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    I would almost say it was the LR rubble you added?? Approx how much did you add, keeping in mind that most LR sold in the LFS is not always completely cured, and even then, there can be some sort of die-off expected in the transport (they are usually out of water, soaked in wet new-papers??). Personally, thats what i would tag as the issue, as nothing else is being red-flagged at the moment.

    Unless you count the whole house RO system, i know there are no filters to change, but maybe its that reason that the water could never be 0 ppm??? I dont know, i would check up on both these issues, of course getting a sample of that house water TDS tested (perghaps even invest in a handheld or in-line unit)

    I greatly agree with sscheitel on this (perhaps not the 50-60% WC's every other day, that could throw any creatures still hanging in there to go into shock due to changing params, i would stick with 10-15% every other day, or even less perhaps), but i would find a safe haven for your fish and coral RIGHT AWAY, and not add anything else. Pretty much empty the tank of all life and watch the levels.

    It sounds to me like you could be right, there could have been something introduced to throw it into a second cycle, and if that be the case, Congrats, you get to experience the beginning of the system again

    Either way, keep us
    Josh

    Small Frys 120

    Fish- 1 Percula Clown, Black fin Shrimp Goby

    Clown and Goby are just chilling in the NanoCube 12

    120 almost ready for re-cycle


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    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Matthew, I think that your high nitrate level is what is killing off your corals. I would definitely do more frequent and larger water changes to help bring it down. Nitrate should be no more than 10 and nitrite should be 0. Has nitrite ever been 0? What is the lowest your nitrates have ever been?
    Carmie


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    Grand Master Reefer rroselavy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbkcu33 View Post
    I have just finished my second bottle of Stability and the numbers are still not changing. I have been adding a Buffer and both parts of Tech CB. Nothing seems to be helping. I am at the point I am ready to pay someone to come in and get this tank stabilized or I might end up selling it. I really do not want to do that.
    You may want to begin to question the advice of your local LFS. I am assuming that they are recommending these stopgap solutions (chemicals) instead of leading you down a path of learning about natural nitrate reduction methods. Selling you products is more profitable solution (in the short-term) for them. What they may not realize is that keeping you as a long-term customer (and successful Aquarist) would return them more profit than having you fail and give up.

    Since Gwen lives so close, I would recommend (if you have not already) that you ask her about more reliable/upstanding LFS's in the area. Apart from that, do extensive research on various sites from talkingreef.com, reefreaders.com, reefcentral.com, wetwebmedia.com and advancedaquarist.com, and read several excellent publications:

    The Reef Aquarium: Science, Art, and Technology, Vol. 3
    The Conscientious Marine Aquarist
    Aquarium Corals : Selection, Husbandry, and Natural History
    Reef Invertebrates: An Essential Guide to Selection, Care and Compatibility

    I am feeding the same frozen food since I first added the fish. I do not have the bag in which the slab of Mysis shrimp came in.
    Rinse the thawed Mysis in RODI before adding it to your tank.

    The RO system is a whole house system the flushes itself every thrid day. There are no filters to replace.
    I would consider getting a full RODI system. TDS readings are going to help you determine the purity of your water. RODI filters need to be diligently replaced to avoid introducing contaminants. I am not sure what your "filterless" RO system is...

    -Scott
    Last edited by rroselavy; 08-09-2007 at 02:28 AM.

  7. #32
    Curious Reefer nbkcu33's Avatar
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    Thank you every one for all the advice, all the levels are back to normal and have been for about three and a half months. The tank is now stable and I am not adding any chemical besides Calcium once a week. In fact the tank is so stable we have added a few new members to my slice of the ocean.

    Since it is a pain to reach the bottom of this tank I enlisted some help, a Diamond Goby. It has dug out a few hiding places under the rocks. In fact the Tang sometimes hides in one of those holes.


    We have replaced our White Star polyp that died during the second cycling of the tank, with a Green Star. I liked the White Star better but this one was on sale.

    We also added a Green Candy Coral which has already begun to split.


    We also added a pair of Pajama Cardinals. They are the opposite of the other fish in the tank which are very active the Cardinals are very mellow.


    The last addition is a Sebae anemone for the clowns, only to find out that our clowns will not host in it. Thanks LFS for the great advice, again. I need to find a better LFS. Anyway the anemone looks nice in the middle of the tank under the shelf.


    Here is a new photo of the entire tank.
    Last edited by nbkcu33; 12-17-2007 at 05:15 PM. Reason: spelling correction
    Matthew
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    A pie shaped chunk of the ocean in my house. AGA 54 Corner Reef Ready
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  8. #33
    Curious Reefer nbkcu33's Avatar
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    I can not believe I forgot the clam . We added a clam to the tank as well. I need to take a better photo of it
    Last edited by nbkcu33; 12-17-2007 at 05:17 PM. Reason: spelling correction
    Matthew
    [
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    LPS Mixed

  9. #34
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Hi Matthew,

    I am glad that you have your tank stable. It looks nice. I don't think I would believe anything your LFS tells you. Seriously, do make sure you research everything before you add it.
    Carmie


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  10. #35
    Curious Reefer nbkcu33's Avatar
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    I have learned that Talkingreef knows MUCH more then my LFS. Before adding anyting else to my tank I will be checking Talkingreef and other websites.

    Now that things are better in my “chunk of the ocean”, I have a few questions. I have been thinking about adding a fuge to my tank but I am not sure of the benefits. Can someone clear up what I will gain by adding a fuge? While I have been thinking about this addition, I have been trying to figure out a way to add a fuge and keep everything in the base of my tank. While surfing the web I came across this blog 7 Gallon Forums: Got my ac500 fuge setup on my minibow..., in which a reefer added a power filter housing, as a fuge, to a 7 gallon bow front reef tank. What do you, my Talkingreef friends, think of this solution? I think that would work for me if a fuge is a necessity.
    Last edited by nbkcu33; 12-18-2007 at 04:59 PM. Reason: Adding information
    Matthew
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    LPS Mixed

  11. #36
    SPS Reefer / TR Admin lReef lKeeper's Avatar
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    a refugium is not a necessity on any tank, BUT they are VERY good to have. not only do they give you a place to hide equipment, if in the sump, but they can also provide a place for macro algae to export nutrients out of the system and help control unwanted algae. mine besides two types of macro algae, also houses a DSB with LR rubble for pod reproduction.
    lReef lKeeper (Bobby) Admin and Reefer

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  12. #37
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    I agree that a fuge is very desirable. Here is an article that may help you Reefreaders - Refugium.
    Carmie


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  13. #38
    Curious Reefer nbkcu33's Avatar
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    Now that I know I should add a fuge, how? I read this article: 7 Gallon Forums: Got my ac500 fuge setup on my minibow... and it sounds like a solution but I need a more sessioned option. What do you, my reefer friends, think about using a Powered filter as a fuge?
    Last edited by nbkcu33; 12-19-2007 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Font Change
    Matthew
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  14. #39
    SPS Reefer / TR Admin lReef lKeeper's Avatar
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    i say that i do not think they are big enough, BUT it could work. depending on you stand size and how much room you have under it, i would try to add one to the sump or one next to the sump.
    lReef lKeeper (Bobby) Admin and Reefer

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  15. #40
    Curious Reefer nbkcu33's Avatar
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    As you can see from this photo, and Carmie will back me up, there is very little room under the tank. Sorry about the salt and yes I know the bio balls should go.. The only way I can see adding a fuge is to use a power head to pump the water out of the sump and another power head to pump it back to the sump but still the fuge would be small. Besides using a power filter as a fuge can anyone come up with another/better idea?
    Matthew
    [
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    SPS Reefer / TR Admin lReef lKeeper's Avatar
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    i would ditch the bio balls and whatever that is that they are sitting on and put the skimmer where the bio balls are, then add about 3-4" of sand, a little LR rubble, and some cheato or calurpa macro algae in the middle of the sump. you should have pretty good flow, but not to much, through there so the macro algae can export the nutrients.
    lReef lKeeper (Bobby) Admin and Reefer

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  17. #42
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    I have caulerpa in the bio-ball compartment of my sump and cheato in a 2L bottle that my skimmer flows into (cuts down on microbubbles). The skimmer is sitting outside of the sump behind the Ocean Spray bottle.

    Yes, I know that I have a mess of cords and salt creep. I promise I'll clean it up soon.
    Carmie


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  18. #43
    Curious Reefer nbkcu33's Avatar
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    With the first anniversary of “my chunk of the ocean” approaching, I have some happy news and a question. But before I get to that, here is a better photo of the clam.


    On to the happy news: The candy coral has split. We started with 3 heads and now we have 4.

    The ricordia has also split. The (Percula) Clownfish are hosting in the anemone!!! We added the Sebae anemone on 12/17/07 with the knowledge that if the clowns are not Sebae clowns they will probably not host, but one month and 10 days later they are hosting. When I showed my wife and son what is going on they stood there and watched the clowns roll around in the anemone. The coolest part for me is the way the anemone wraps around the fish when they sleep, kind of like a blanket. I need to try and get a picture of that!


    Now for the question, Can anyone identify the animal below? The one in the photo is about an inch and a half across minus the tentacles and is the largest in the tank. There are at least 30 of these, on the rocks and even 4 on a power cord. Is there a way to get rid of them or just control their number?


    Thanks for all the support!!!
    Last edited by nbkcu33; 01-29-2008 at 02:30 PM. Reason: modify text
    Matthew
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    Insightful Reefer dkone's Avatar
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    !!!! AIPTASIA !!!!

    It is considered a pest anemone and was the bane of my life for over a year.

    There are a variety of treatment options out there, from injecting it with vinegar, pickling lime, Joe's Juice, Stop Aiptasia, Aiptasia Control etc... Whatever you do, don't scrape it off the rock or attempt to hack it up in the tank, you will end up with hundreds of the darn things ! There is a podcast which talks about Aiptasia and if you enter a search into your browser you will get thousands of hits regarding them. WWM (wet web media) has a plethora of information on them also. It does look from the photo like you have a nice farm of Aiptasia already, you want to deal with them soon.

    Warm Regards,
    John
    Member of The Southern Colorado Marine Aquarist Society

    180 mixed reef, 75g sump/fuge, ev180 skimmer, CLM with Sequence Flo Dart. 1134w Odyessea HQI/PC fixture. 2 x Phosban 150 reactors, 2 x 40g frag tanks hooked to main system with 600w P/C lighting

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    Curious Reefer nbkcu33's Avatar
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    Thanks dkone! That is not what I wanted to hear but now I know what I am fighting.
    Matthew
    [
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  21. #46
    Master Reefer Small Fry's Avatar
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    Joes Juice is working for me. At this point, you are talking to a defeated reefer. I hate to say it, but i have lost the great battle against aptasia. All i can do now is nuke the ones that i can see. But i know they are in the rock work.

    This was all becuase i wasnt thorough enough when i first started to take care of these pests. Take the advice from from, start now, be thorough, so you dont regret it later.

    BTW, fuges pwn all, for any gamers out there

    On that note, how much room is there above the sump.......
    my thinking is that perhaps you can find a very long, not necesarily tall tank to fit on a shelf you make above the sump, have it drilled, shove a powerhead into your sump to act as a fuge and boom there ya go.

    OR, you can do a dark fuge pipe. Dont remembere who but someone did this on this site i believe. It basically entails taking a pipe, largest diameter and height you can manage, stuff it a little bit with LR rubble, and then layers of eggrate. I know you must think i have no life, but im bored, so i offer my help.

    I painted up a lil schematic for you

    The basis of this is that there are many critters, sponges, and other things that do not need light to grow and breed. With all the surface area presented by the egg crate and live rock rubble, sponges can colonize and grow, sea squirts and tube worms can establish themselves, and pods will have a place to breed. Mind you this is all relatively low flow, nothing to extreme.

    This hasn't been proven handsdown to be a miracle, but it is definitely something that you can do with that space. Speaking from experience oi have tons of squirts, worms and sponges growing in the areas of my sump that get very little light.

    Hope this helps you out a bit,
    lol, i need a life eh???
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Josh

    Small Frys 120

    Fish- 1 Percula Clown, Black fin Shrimp Goby

    Clown and Goby are just chilling in the NanoCube 12

    120 almost ready for re-cycle


  22. #47
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Matthew, happy 1st anniversary! I know that The Cultured Reef carries Joe's Juice. I've never had a plague of aiptasia but I know that they will quickly get out of hand. Nuke 'em!
    Carmie


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    Curious Reefer nbkcu33's Avatar
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    Thank you, small fry for the fuge ideas. I never would have come up with mounting the fuge on a shelf! Carmie the tank's 1st anniversary is on February 25th, but thank you in advance. I will look in to "Joes Juice"
    Matthew
    [
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  24. #49
    Curious Reefer nbkcu33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkone View Post
    !!!! AIPTASIA !!!!

    It is considered a pest anemone and was the bane of my life for over a year.

    There are a variety of treatment options out there, from injecting it with vinegar, pickling lime, Joe's Juice, Stop Aiptasia, Aiptasia Control etc...
    That Joe's Juice is DE BOMB! It was as if a bomb went off in the tank the moment I started to apply Joe's Juice. In three minutes or less all the Aiptasia was gone from the tank including the "Mothership" the Aiptasia that was two plus inches wide pictured in a prior post; GONE!!!
    Matthew
    [
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    LPS Mixed

  25. #50
    Our Brotha Down Unda
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    The biggest source ive found them to obtain access is though our edditions from the live rock curing bins at the LFS or suppliers. A bare bottomed glass tank & light will show you what animals are often hitchiking, howerer fantasia's are sneak b@st@rds that can live within bolt hole, cracks ect ect even during inspection period, & more often than not to the untrained eye people often think "bonus" a new coral & feedem. Just like clinton you find out latter that was a mistake..lol , why am i slagging off a president of another country because i can...muhahahah



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