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Thread: Paul's 50G fish only tank

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    Apprentice pmartin's Avatar
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    Paul's 50G fish only tank

    Hello all, let me introduce myself

    I am Paul from Dublin, Ireland and I decided to post my tank journal online because since I started using the site, Talkingreef, I found everyone so helpful and non-judgemental, which makes a huge difference when stepping into the unknown.

    I have been keeping fish for about 7 years now. It started when my wife’s work place closed down and the office fish tank was left parent less so I adopted three Lionhead fish which I name Axl, Slash and Duff. I had the fish for 2 years and when the Gn’R 3 headed for rock n roll heaven (separately there was no R n’ R massacre) I decided to step it up a gear and to keep African Cichlids.

    For the last 4/5 years I have been keeping the Cichlids with varied success. One of my favourite fish, Bellers, turned out to be a bully and killed 12-15 fish in a year. I found out later that this was mainly due to two things, having a tank that was too small and receiving poor advice on the compatibility of fish. So I got him a new friend, a blue lobster called Pinchie (the first Lobster i got climbed out of the tank dropped down the press crossed the room and hid under my guitar amp and died Rn’R).They appear to get on well and now the stress levels in the tank have decreased dramatically.

    13.03d.jpg 13.03a.jpg

    Bellers & Pinchie

    About two months ago I bought myself a 50 Gallon corner tank with the intention of filling it with African Cichlids. That was until I discussed it with a LFS (freshwater only) owner who informed me that Bellers would always be a bully regardless of the size of tank he was in. He suggested keeping Marine fish instead (which I secretly always wanted to do but thought it best to wait until retirement when I would have more time)

    So I went to the Marine fish store for the next couple of weeks, got on the net, downloaded the Talkingreef podcast (which has been of huge help and a credit to Rob and the rest of the guests) and read a great book “The new marine Aquarium” by Michael S. Paletta - a great step by step guide and is very simple for €25.

    fish.jpg

    After all my research I set up my Juwel “Trigon” 190 litres / 50 Gallon bow-fronted corner tank. The tank has an internal overflow with a heater, filter and power head (600l/h) which cost me €600/$780 from the internet including free delivery, this was nearly €150 cheaper than any shop I visited, who incidentally also refused to deliver!!!!!!!

    I then went to my LFS to buy my start up kit which consists of

    1. Salt (instant Ocean) €40
    2. skimmer (in tank) €130
    3. Powerhead (Maxi jet) (1200l/h) €50
    4. sand €80
    5. Hydrometer €25
    6. Tap water filter €100
    7. Marine lab €50

    Total € 475 / $620

    I did a leak test first, then drained the tank and replaced it with filtered tap water, which was a slow process as the flow rate through the filters quite low.

    After filling the tank, which took nearly a day in total, I turned on the heater and as soon as the temperature levelled at 24°C / 77F I added the power heads and salt

    15.02a.jpg

    I left the tank for a week, monitoring the salinity regularly to make sure it was a constant 1.024. Once that was done I got some live rock (Fiji reef rock) for €350 for 20kg/ $450 for 48lbs and headed home with my now empty wallet.

    Image013.jpg

    Along with the live rock I added an in-tank skimmer, carbon filter (Rowa Carbon POI=1,3 and Rowa Phos PO4 & SiO2 absorber to the tank).

    With everything now set up I started to keep a Marine log - something I would highly recommend to any beginner - with the following sections:

    Dates of purchases etc,
    Record tests for the cycling of the tank,
    Conversion chart (salt measurements per gallon/litre etc),
    Maintenance record (Rob’s 3 week rotation of power head and skimmer maintenance),
    Shopping list (because I always arrive home and I have forgotten something) and
    A single sheet calendar so I have an idea of what I have to do on a weekly basis

    At present I am doing my Marine lab testing for the Nitrogen cycle and waiting for my ammonia to rise (nearly 2 weeks now and no changes)

    pH 8.2,
    Alkalinity 2.9,
    Temp 25ºC/77ºF,
    Specific Gravity 1.023,
    Salinity 31,
    Ammonia NH3/NH4 ppm 0.25,
    Nitrite NO2 0.2 &
    Nitrate NO3 7.0

    I have also added a new glass thermometer with 0.2 ºC increments as my strip thermometer that came with the tank is not that accurate.

    The water movement around my tank is 1800l/h about 10 turnovers per hour, however due to the fact my 600l/h power head is on the flow side (the filter will restrict flow when clogged) so I plan to buy another 1200l/h.

    This will be a fish only until I get to grips with the tank and then I will upgrade the lighting etc.

    So here is the latest picture of my tank. The shining light at the top you see is my skimmer cup. I thought about modifying my skimmer cup by reducing the height of it so it wouldn’t be popping up through the tank lid (and after some great advice from David) I plan to modify the casing of my skimmer and place it in the overflow unit within the tank thus removing the filter and allow the live rock/live sand to do my filter work for me. Coming from a freshwater set-up it is hard to imagine a tank without a filter but I am willing to take the experts advice.

    13.03f.jpg

    So now I have started my research into what fish types I hope to purchase.

    I hope my tank will be half as good as Carmie's 54 Corner (check it out if you haven’t already)

    Thanks for reading my tank journal and I would welcome any suggestions or feedback you may have.

    Thanks a million for all your help so far and stay tuned for more updates.

    Paul

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    Apprentice pmartin's Avatar
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    Smile Well Done

    Hi there Paul

    I really enjoyed reading your tank journal. It's great to have someone with such enthusiasm on the site.

    Keep up the good work.

    Elaine

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    Master Reefer iglowce's Avatar
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    welcome to TR paul.. my pleasure to read your journal.. keep us updated and more pix

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    Grand Master Reefer Seahorsedreams's Avatar
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    You put all that info in one post! Brave man! With my luck the computer would have burped on the last word loosing everything.

    Your tank looks like it will be sweet!
    Renee

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    Apprentice lanesreef's Avatar
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    Great journal. The book you mentioned is probably the best out there! I used the same to get my tank going. Keep us posted with news and pics!
    __________
    Seth - Novice Reef Aquarist
    Aquarium Blog - http://www.lanesreef.blogspot.com

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    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Hi Paul,

    Thanks. Your tank is looking good already. I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine. Here is a link to a Yahoo Widget that I have found helpful for reminding me of my maintenance tasks.
    Carmie


    Only disasters happen fast!





    Carmie's 54 Corner Tank
    Carmie's Cube


    Show people you value their advice! Click the STAR icon at the bottom of the post to add to their reputation.

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    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Nicely done, Paul. I'm looking forward to many more post and many more pixs.

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    Grand Master Reefer Reefbaby's Avatar
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    Welcome to TR Paul! It's wonderful to have you on board!

    I love the look of the bowfronts and can't wait to see how yours will develop. Sounds like you've done your research and have thought everything out carefully. You can be an example to all!

    I couldn't tell from the pictures whether you have a deep sand bed or not? It looks like it's not - have you thought about starting from the get-go with a DSB? You'll have much more stability in the tank. I would highly recommend going with a fine grain of sand. (I'm just thinking that if you want to upgrade at some point to corals, then you want to have as pristine water quality as possible).

    Also...I can't see if this is the case or not, but try to not lean any of the rocks against the back wall. It makes it really difficult to clean and can eventually scratch up the glass.

    Looks great!
    Christi

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    Apprentice pmartin's Avatar
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    Hello again and thanks for the messages of support.

    Since my last post nothing too much has changed my tank is still cycling (even though I think it would just love to speed things up)

    I have my tank up and running since January and my live rock has been in the tank for over 5 weeks now with no great changes.

    There is a lot of hair algae starting to grown in the tank and I have been taking my toothbrush to it with no great effect. I need a firmer brush I think.

    I know it’s not a great photo but here is a picture of a green spore that suddenly appeared over night. I thought this was brilliant but I had to brush it off.

    13.03b.jpg

    Reefbaby thanks a million for the advise (all comments are very welcome)

    I am going to have a deep sand bed in my tank but the book I am reading has advised that the sand should be placed in the tank after the tank it has cycled.

    I have place the rock away from the glass with enough space for my magnet cleaner to push through but I haven’t left enough space between the wall and one side of the glass which will make it a little difficult to clean the inside of the glass but I will get over it by getting a algae scraper.

    13.03.jpg

    I have added an additional maxijet Powerhead to the tank. This is to improve the circulation as it is bow shaped the water was not being pushed through the rocks. So now I have a 1200l/h and a 900l/h maxijet powerheads and along with this there is a 600l/h pump on the flow side of the filter. This gives me 14 water circulations/movements (?) an hour, which is above the recommended 5 to 10, but I don’t want to be reliant on the 600l/h Powerhead as when the filter gets clogged the flow will be reduced (as advised in one of the podcasts)

    So tonight I am going to do another water test and hopefully there will be some change in the ammonia levels. It has been 5 weeks since I have put the live rock in. there has been an increase in hair algae so hopefully that Is a sign that things are beginning to speed up.

    My LFS has told me that I can put in a peppermint shrimp and a couple of snails as the ammonia levels are quite low but I am gonna stick to my guns and wait for the tank to cycle.

    Thanks again for all your posts of encouragement.

    Paul

  10. #10
    Grand Master Reefer Reefbaby's Avatar
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    Paul - if you put sand in later, you might have another cycle anyway....especially if you're covering up the sand that you've got now. Since you're at your cycling phase, I would go ahead and do it now. You'll get your sandbed all rich with the right bacteria and in your beginning phase of your tank (after you've cycled), you'll actually have a better denitrification buffer with the deeper sand bed.

    How are your nitrite/nitrate levels now? If they're tapering off, I would suggest starting with a clean up crew. They'll help you keep the unsightly algae under control. Snails/hermits are both great choices for the beginning janitors. I would wait just a bit with the cleaner shrimp.

    By the way, are you testing your phosphates?
    Christi

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    Apprentice pmartin's Avatar
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    So I tested my water again and there seems to have been some action over the weekend. Woo Hoo in your face Ammonia.

    pH 8.4,
    Alkalinity 2.9,
    Temp 25.2ºC/77ºF,
    Specific Gravity 1.024,
    Salinity 33,
    Ammonia NH3/NH4 ppm 0.25,
    Nitrite NO2 0.05 &
    Nitrate NO3 1.0

    Could I have missed my ammonia spike? Over 3 days? The detection levels of ammonia haven’t changed but my NO2 & NO3 is lower than ever.

    Thanks for the again for the advise Reefbaby………..

    So I am going to rinse my sand in freshwater (as it is not live sand) and place it in the tank tonight. My tanks has no sand in it at the moment the picture you see below shows the debris from the live rock and algae.

    13.03.jpg

    I am not testing for phosphates at the moment as I thought all you had to test for during your tank cycle is pH, Alkalinity, Temp, Specific Gravity, Salinity, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. I do have a Rowa Phos PO4 & SiO2 absorber to the tank.

    My LFS stays open late on a Wednesday so I am going to go get myself a clean up crew. Well I have to bring a water sample from my tank so the LFS are happy with the water quality.

    So last night when I got home I finally got my DVD of "Tropical Marine Tank set up" (it was 6 weeks late) but for €13/€17 it wasn’t bad. It was only 35 mins long and I thought it skipped over some vital points.

  12. #12
    Grand Master Reefer Reefbaby's Avatar
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    phosphates are good for controlling, especially for understanding when and if algae problems develop, which they are bound to at some point. High phosphates cause lots of nuisance algae problems, as well as being detrimental to a lot of corals (once you get to that point). I would suggest testing for them - in the beginning maybe on a weekly basis or so....

    it's exciting to get the first critters! Good luck! Share some pictures!
    Christi

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    Master Reefer iglowce's Avatar
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    when do you plan to put in your clean up crew?

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    Apprentice pmartin's Avatar
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    Hello again

    I was going to head over to my LFS tonight to get my clean up crew but it doesn't suit so I am planning to go over on Saturday morning. i will put the cleaner crew in on saturday.

    Also on my shopping list are lights (as the lights I have in the tank are not that great and are for a standard tank) & reflectors, tubing, drip valve and spare heater and a phosphate test kit.

    Anyway last night I added my crushed coral. Naturally I went right ahead cleaned the sand (3 to 4 water changes) put it in and forgot to turn off my powerheads and skimmer. So take 2, I turned off my powerheads and skimmer and I started to add the sand and began to aquascape. i cleaned the live rock by waving my hand over the rock. for some strange reason the only turkey baster I can get is metal. i think the turkey basting factory on sell them around Christmas time.

    The coral/sand makes such a huge difference to my tank. It actually looks like a fish tank now and not an “iron lung” as my wife likes to call it.

    The substrate is on average 1 ½ - 2 inches deep. I would like to have a deeper sand bed but I don’t want to shrink the height of the tank, plus I have this recurring vision of waking up to a big bang and finding a tank on the ground smashed to pieces cus the tank stand couldn’t handle the weight. That hasn’t happened yet

    So I am going to give it a while for the sand to compress and see if I need to add more.

    After I added the sand last night

    27.03.jpg

    The tank this morning

    27.03g.jpg

    thanks again for all your help and all of your encouragement.

    Paul

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    Apprentice pmartin's Avatar
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    And on the 6th day (week actually) he said let there be fish and there was much rejoice

    So I have finally started to stock my tank. I went into my LFS Saturday morning with my water sample (tank water that is) and the levels were in order.

    I got myself 2 clownfish (1 small & 1 medium €60/$78)

    One sand sifting star fish €25/$33

    5 turbo snails €25/$33 (total) need to get more

    One cleaner shrimp €25/$33

    DSCF2188.jpg Image019.jpg


    They all appear to be happy although the clown fish didn’t take to the Mysis shrimp too well. I will see how they are tonight. They appear to be healthy fish but I will keep an eye on them over the next few days. I didn’t turn off the powerheads when I was feeding them so maybe that made a difference.

    I bought 2 types of food, Brine and Mysis shrimp.

    I also got a 50W heater for the top up water and a Phosphate test kit (thanks for the advice Reefbaby)

    One of the funny things that happened was the hitch hikers that came with either the star fish or the snails. Hopefully you can see the small star fish in the picture bellow (this is the biggest of 3) I am going to see how they get on and when they get a bit bigger I will try and trade them at the LFS.

    DSCF2200.jpg

    I have to change the lights and add reflectors (have to wait till my next pay cheque)

    I also got a book that is quite good, it is a step up from “the new marine aquarium” it has a handy chart of fish compatibility

    marine.jpg

    So altogether to set up a marine tank it has cost me in the region of €1800/$2340. Is it worth it? Oh yes

    So exciting times in the house and I will keep you updated with any events.

    Paul

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    Hi pmartin!!
    It's the first time I've readed your tank journal, I think you are doing everything very well.
    I'm a bit concerned because you get into the tank too much bioload in one time I think (clowns, starfishs, the shrimp, etc)
    Be carefully and look yor parameters.... But I think everything's gonna be all right...

    Keep up the good work you have been doing

    PD: Sorry for the grammatic... I'm not very well writting in english

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    Master Reefer iglowce's Avatar
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    very nice.

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    Grand Master Reefer Reefbaby's Avatar
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    Great work Paul!

    man....those clowns were expensive Dude! I think my clowns were the cheapest thing I've ever put in my tank (besides the snails). Here we pay around 12€ or so....geez!

    In my experience, clowns don't particularly like mysis as much as artemia or flake food. The mysis are a bit big for them to get their mouth around. The best thing to do is to feed a mixture when you feed....a tiny bit of different stuff. That way you'll be able to hit all the species in your tank.

    Cheers!
    Christi

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    Apprentice pmartin's Avatar
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    iglowce

    thanks for the encouragement.

    C3

    I read in a couple of places that your Bio load is not effected by a cleaner crew (cleaner shrimp, snails and star fish) so that why I added them. I thought that I was going to just add a cleaner crew at first but LFS advised me that I needed to add fish soon after my tank cycle was complete.

    The test kit I have is not the best IMO. Its a Red sea test kit and i don’t believe that its that accurate (but then again I might be doing something wrong so don’t take my word for it).

    i got a Salifert Phosphate test kit which seems to be better.

    by the way we were in Chile last year on holidays and we loved it. very friendly people and your english is great

    Reefbaby

    Things are not cheap in Ireland and the fact that we have only got 2 marine fish shops in Dublin (that i know of) makes it an expensive hobby. Its worth it thought

    i fed the clowns with Brine shrimp last night and they loved it. the clowns are beginning to recognise me now (as the feeder) and come to the front of the tank when i come into the room.

    for the moment i am going to feed the tank every second day so my ammonia levels don’t rise.

    the snails are doing a great job cleaning the live rock.

    great to talk to you all again

    Paul

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    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Paul -

    Sounds like you're on your way. Patience is the best lesson I've learned during my 35+ years in this hobby.

    I guess some of us are very lucky when it comes to the cost of livestock. I won't tell you how much cheaper it is here in California USA, let's just say a lot.

    Try some good flake food on those clownfish. I've never met a clown that did not love flake. Brine and mysis shrimp are good, but they do need a bit more variety.

  21. #21
    Our Brotha Down Unda
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    welcome to TR - PM im not sure if ive said hello before, & ive certainly missed this thread for awhile, i only scroll the todays posts list so sometimes if the forums busy it can drop /scroll out of sight quickly.

    wow, nice bow front, im with RB on the looks of these suckers, very sexy, now i need a tissue.

    Clean up crews can contribute to the tank bud, input in input out. Simple science brother, when ever anything living eats its the same weight coming out after nutrient uptake. You seem to have some cubes in the volume department which can buffer you for alittle bit, Id still suggest you stock slowly though & not be swayed to much by the LFS's pitch if you know what i mean. looking forward to your progress.
    I thought you were going down the BB route there for a min. In a bow front id save for bigger more feature-some pieces of rock rather than a wall of little ones, makes for a better display that doesn't look crowded in my opinion.
    good work!



    Vquilibrium Productions

  22. #22
    Apprentice pmartin's Avatar
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    Its been a while since my last input into my tank journal cus I have been so busy in work.

    All is going well in the tank. Since my entry I have changed my water filter. I upgraded to a RO/DI water filter. I have installed in my shed and it works a treat. At first the water was coming thorough very slowly but now it seems fine.

    I have been doing 15% water changes ever 2 weeks but I think I will up this as there appears to be a bit of hair algae developing in the tank.

    i also changed the lights and added refelectors.

    The clowns seem to be happy eating away & hanging out.

    My cleaner shrimp has shed its shell 3 times now and it appears to be in good health.

    The star fish is happy as well. The baby star fish that I showed you appears on the side of my tank every now and again.

    I am off on holidays for a week and it is the fist time I will be leaving the tank since I started. I have my automatic feeder from my old tank.

    If you have any advise/tips I would be delighted to hear it.

    should i leave my skimmer running? it's only got a 300ml cup so i dont want it to overflow

    thanks again for all the advise and encouragement.

    Paul
    Last edited by pmartin; 05-09-2007 at 09:13 AM.

  23. #23
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Paul, I'd love to see some new photos of your tank. Algae is an inevitable part of a maturing tank. Don't overfeed, reduce the photo period and keep up with your water changes and it will go away.
    Carmie


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    Carmie's 54 Corner Tank
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  24. #24
    Apprentice pmartin's Avatar
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    to be honest my tank hasn’t changed at all since i posted my last pics. i will get my camera out tonight and see if i can get some new shots. i think i may have a mushroom growing on my live rock.

    I am hopefully going to get a new fish at the end of the month (any suggestion of good characters that would suit a tank with clowns and a cleaner shrimp)

    I saw a thread that Rob posted on how to reduce algee so I have my light off for the next 3 days and I will see how that goes.

    One thing I have noticed is that as soon as my lights go out my clowns go to the surface and turn on there sides. Is this normal?

    Paul

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    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Regarding the clowns - yes, it is normal. Mine do it every night. Clowns being clowns, I guess!

    As for fish recommendations - try a Royal Gramma. Cheap, beautiful, realtively docile (except to fish that have similar shapes). Plus - clowns are not the nicest fish themselves, they can be quite teritorial. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever had a tank w/o a Royal gramma or Blackcap Basslet. Good luck.

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