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Thread: Bio-media and nitrates (Trickle and wet/dry filters)

  1. #26
    Site Owner Rob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russy Pelican View Post
    Also, I'm assuming you had live rock in the system? Just in case any n00bs are reading, pulling bio media would be terrible advice for anyone with a FO tank with no other filtration.
    yes, both of the main points, i think, were covered in my write up.
    removing bio media doesn't remove nitrate, it removed the over production of nitrate.
    however i have to object and say that while bio media may be helpful in a FO/FOWLR tank, it is my no means required. LR, remote DSB, refugiums, aggressive skimming, other mechanical filters, and water changes are all other methods that can be used with or without a wet/dry
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    Insightful Reefer Russel P's Avatar
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    Absolutely. I just figured there are more than a few folks out there with nothing but a wet/dry and wouldn't want to cause any confusion.


    PS: Renee, I wasn't trying to come across in a smarmy way at all. I don't run biomedia in my reef, but do in my trigger tank. It's crossed my mind to pull the media in that one, but it's one big messy fish.
    Last edited by Russel P; 03-12-2007 at 03:02 PM.

  3. #28
    Site Owner Rob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russy Pelican View Post
    Absolutely. I just figured there are more than a few folks out there with nothing but a wet/dry and wouldn't want to cause any confusion.


    PS: Renee, I wasn't trying to come across in a smarmy way at all. I don't run biomedia in my reef, but do in my trigger tank. It's crossed my mind to pull the media in that one, but it's one big messy fish.
    yes, i agree.. its important to think about those that may be reading this (lurkers) both now and in the future..
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  4. #29
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    Rusty, nothing like questioning everything, i do it all the time, namely cause i forget everything. but hey!

    Bio media is a wonderful thing, wet/dry plumbing/systems can always be made versitile by pipe extensions or cause-way baffle hights adjusted to submerge media to achieve the ideal reef bactera. In your example, having a fish only tank you dont need to change anything. In fact, the humble sponge material we sometimes use is definatly one of the best bio material from the standpoint of mass>collonisation surface area. nothing within the hobby is immune to its draw backs though, using this simple sponge as an example, its effective yes, but traps detritus, slows flow, can polute without maintenance. So the point is regardless of which system you use, unless frequent maintanence is applied your going to end up keeping gold fish - just like me! lol

    In terms of old school bio ball material, in therory you need as small as possible physical plastic material with as much as practical volume within the same space. Namely to increase & maxamise the total surface area ratio for collonisation. Its all about the bactera folks. making a point to know you friends, & know enermies bacterially can indeed save you time & problems down the track. Never would i go so far to say one way is exclusive for a particular setting, cause my ass would be laughed out of school, just over time with many of us hobbiest plugging away year after year with knowedge, science & observerstion as a guide we have narrowed down the "cause & effect" nature of each "system filtration engine" to where we can draw the line in the sand & stay within our chosen boundary.

    Now, lets get back to my topic, "Fosters girls Do America"



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  5. #30
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    To get off the whole bio-media thing and back to your original question about you just having a box with water in it... Well that is a good thing in itself... I am currently building a sump/refugium for my filtration but lets just say you were to keep the sump as it is with no bio-media at all. Well it wouldn't be at it's full potential obviously but it would help with at least 4 things.

    1. You are basically creating a bigger tank of sorts, simply in two different "buckets". Because they are all interconnected they share the same... well everything. As we all know confining an entire ecosystem to a small capsule versus a 200 gallon tank can be a lot easier for the simple fact that every action (such as fish dying, excrement, excess food, nitrates, etc..) will have a lot less of an impact on a larger tank. So to break it down in layman's terms.. if you had a fish poo in a 5 gallon it would create a lot more ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate than if the same fish pooed in a 45 gallon tank. The excess bio-media that you can put in the sump is just a bonus because it won't fit in the other tank!

    2. The tank itself stays topped off more so for aesthetic purposes it doesn't look like your tank is always running low on water.

    3. Some people don't want or choose not to have a clean-up crew crowding the tank. I don't know why but they do.. In this scenario you could always put a cleanup crew in the sump to take care of things if you put sand or if you have algae they might clean the walls as is.. I don't know I always put something in the sump

    4. A lot easier to distribute chemicals. When putting them in the sump it filters into the tank a lot slower so it isn't such a shock to the life.

    Just my ideas on why a sump can be very beneficial regardless of what goes in it...

  6. #31
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Great analysis Chris.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwest View Post
    Sorry V, I must of missed this thread lol.

    Chris, IMO i would never inter duce the wheels, However i don't believe in filtration at all. I have yet to use one on a salt tank. I'm sure someone else can explain it better but i feel filtration does exactly what its suppose to, Filter. I also feel that unless you plan on cleaning the pads and or media once a week. There can be alot of nitrates released into the water in a short period of time. But like i said someone else can explain it alot better than myself why not to use Bio wheels

    Also if i haven't said it yet, Welcome to Talkingreef

    So if I have the filter with the media it is better not to use the media? I started with the media but so far I have only added lr and dsb.

  8. #33
    Crispy Reef Monkey **MOD** Phurst's Avatar
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    What kind of filter? Canister? HOB? Unless you need them for water movement, there's really no point in running them at all. If you need them for water circulation, totally empty them. Anything that can trap detritus is not your friend.
    **KEEP ME AWAY FROM SUPER GLUE ... i tend to glue my lips shut !!**

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    Insightful Reefer tdkarl's Avatar
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    Rob so my 75gal has had a wet dry (w/ bio balls) for some time along with DSB, EV-120 skimmer, and A LOT of LR. I have noticed thick heavy stuff (algae of some type, guy at the LFS said it might even be a bacteria and not a algee) starting to cover my LR the last month or so. I am trying to vacuum it out during water changes, but it seems to keep coming back. I am thinking it might be one of two things, I havent done any maint. on my deep sand bed. And I have had these bio balls in my wet dry. I am trying to slowly stir up sections of my DSB, but it has to be at least 6" and with alot of rock and not wanting to blow up my tank it will take a while to get it all stirred up. I am guessing a little everyday over a couple month period. Should I remove my boi balls from the wet/dry and just use it as a empty sump? Basically letting the skimmer, DSB and LR to do all the work. Or should I slowly take out the bio media each day, so there isnt a big swing in my tank?
    Tony K.
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  10. #35
    Crispy Reef Monkey **MOD** Phurst's Avatar
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    Since the tank has been running for a while, you'll want to gradually remove them, since they are taking part in filtration. A handful every day or two would be fine. There will probably be a lot of gunk left over where the bio-balls were, so you'll want to siphon all that crud out too.
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  11. #36
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Hi Tony, good to see you! How are the triplets? Three toddlers must be keeping you BUSY!
    Carmie


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