Hole in the head?????

[Cyclura]

i think one of my new true percs may have hole in the head. I see a few small holes right around where the temple is ( i guess you would call it the temple). The strange thing is that i have noticed to same think in other clownfish at different stores. Its too small to get a gooc pic, any auggestions as to what it may be and what i should do?

also, i have omnivarous and carnivarous food, i feed one small cube every other day swithing up the kind of food at every feeding. Am i feeding too much? the 2 percs are the only thinks i have in there right now plus the cleanup crew and a pulsating xenia. The clowns ate a very small bit and then frantically staring darting at pieces of food and then hestiating, and swimming away. Sometimes they even swallowed some and spit it out after that. Anything wrong with this?

-adam

[fat walrus]

Hole in the head is most common with tangs, angels, and large groupers. A picture will be helpful

[Cyclura]

Im sorry but my POS camera cannot distinguish the difference between the white of the stripes and the holes. They are very small holes in a distinct pattern around the top of the front head stripe. Imagine a set of pimples or something making a U shape across a person's forehead. The only difference is it's not acne, its holes, and with a clownfish.

[wildeone]

Regarding the feeding issue, if you are feding one cube (like about 1/2' x 1/2 inch) every other day it may be too much for what you described in your tank. Remember, less is better, they will not starve. The xenia don't need it that often if at all, and the cleanup crew will do a better cleanup if they have to scavenge a bit. I would probably go with 1/2 a cuve every other day.

[V]

like these, only S/W counter-parts

[Cyclura]

like these, only S/W counter-parts

Yes! exactly that!

[Cyclura]

ok....now that we know what it is.... (im guessing thats hole in the head), how do i fix it?

[Cyclura]

hello? anybody? Sorry if i sound a little pushy but im worried about my $30 fish lol. I'd cry for days if it died, and so would my wallet.

[V]

HLLE (hole & lateral line errosion) is generally brought about by poor diet, poor water quality, or agressive behavours leading to stress, conductivity issues, parasitic invasions, or all of the above! now its up to you to fill in the blanks so the process of elimination to begin!

what setting do you have? reef, fish only, mixed?
second question, do u have a QT set-up?
third thing is any of the above have to be identified & corrected asap.
forth is treatment, simple treatments are the likes of melafix, where its gets tricky is with the copper based medication, cause if you have corals they will be destroyed>hense the QT question.

see how u go with that, & post up a few responses, others will chime in soon

[Rob]

yep, i aree, HLLE, not real common in clowns, but can also be cause by stray electrical voltage, i would look at a grounding probe if you dont already have one. they are great investment and quite cheap

here is some more info
http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/hlleorlledisease/
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs3.htm
http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/hlle.html
http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/...erosion_2.html

[Cyclura]

well i just got it and i didnt really see it on him (i did what i thought was a thorough inpesction before purchasing) until he was floating in his bag in my aquarium. They said they just got them in so my guess is being in a mass-breeding type of facility did it to him. Yes i have a reef setup but my only coral is a xenia. Can i just use melafix? I have some on hand actually. No, i dont have QT (yes i know...my bad...workin on it) So can i treat the reef tank with melafix? Its just the two clowns and both of them show signs of the same thing.

[fat walrus]

Melafix is reefsafe. The xenia will not like the melafix, but should be able to survive it. Do look into grounding the tank. I would also suggest using a vitamin-c and mineral food supplement. Vitamin C deficiency is a leading cause of Hole-in-head.

[V]

for future purchases i would hold off or change LFS untill they put their stock though quarentine procedures, that is if i read that right!

[Cyclura]

I add a amino acid/vitiman supplement to my tank once a week which has vitamin C in it. So ill start the melafix tonight, thanks everyone! I just went to that fish store because i happen to be in the area and my main LFS was out of percs. they just happen to have the only pair in town.

Thanks again!!!

-Adam

[Raggamuffin]

just to add a bit on the feeding side, I use mostly frozen foods and those little cubes.... I chop each cube into 4 peices and feed HALF of a piece at a time twice a day. That is enough for my saddle back clown, 2 shrimp, starfish, emerald crab, and clean up crew. Smaller feedings more often are the best way to go in my experience.

[V]

opps spotted a mistake! i post (HLLE) as hole, it should in fact be head. Same sh#t different smell!

Hows it all looking adam?

[Cyclura]

not much change, tomorrow morning will be my.....4th or 5th treatment and i dont see much change as of yet. I have been soaking the frozen foods in a reef vitiman supplement to give it some extra boost. Maybe its because i had my purigen and phos-guard still in the sump and it it soaking up all of the meds before it has time to take any effect, so i took those out for a while. The purigen needed to be reactivated anyways, gonna soak in bleach overnight.

Thanks,

-Adam

[V]

I've seen holes take months to completely seal over, irrations long after the fact. Its definately not going to happen over night! Was just checking to see if there are any adverse reactions to any of your treatments and to see if any parameters still needed adusting.

I'm sure your got a handle on things, good luck anyways!

[fat walrus]

I've seen holes take months to completely seal over, irrations long after the fact. Its definately not going to happen over night! Was just checking to see if there are any adverse reactions to any of your treatments and to see if any parameters still needed adusting.

I'm sure your got a handle on things, good luck anyways!

Stopping the degeneration is the first step.

Many specimens will never heal completely, but will live an otherwise healthy life.

[V]

Agreed.

[Amphibious]

I would like to add my 2 cents worth to the HLLE debate. HLLE is something we want to avoid because of it's debilitating effects on our fish. It's presence is a sign of poor husbandry. In this case the poor husbandry was in the chain of suppliers leading up to the LFS and probably there, too.

One thing I like to pound into the heads of hobbyists is, look at the fish you are buying with a critical eye. Most people, newbies especially, see the beautiful colors and wip out the wallet. They simply must have that or, in this case, those fish. Many problems could be left at the LFS if we just inspect our potential purchases thoroughly before laying out the cash or plastic. HLLE would have been detectable before you purchased the clowns and in that way you could have avoided this dilemma.

To avoid this in the future, take a doctors point of view. Look for trouble as though you know it's there because most of the time, IT'S THERE.

As far as getting rid of it, it can take a long time and may leave permanent scaring. The advice given in the posts above should help get rid of the diease. Good luck.

[V]

thats why i like you so much Amp, you've really got a flair for no BS.
the only eddition id make to your comment is that often people at certain learning levels are not always wise to what 'should be'! The fact that most marine eco-systems have such a great nack of being all inspiring & overwelming to a new comer, & prob worst still so colourful that early signs of trouble tend to blend in to the unsuspecting eye, i kinda feel where unforseeable mistakes can be made! Got to remember, we were once s at some stage, so green we didn't know our ass from our elbow!

Theres 3 main things i love about TR, (besides the fact i've made myself at home)
1) even though the same questions pop up time & time again, the understanding factor here more that anywhere equates to the fact that everyone has a right to learn regardless of skill level which doesn't translate as well in other sites IMO.
(delving deeper still thats robs biggest achievement in my book)

& 2) being able to place my mis-guided flag in the soil of america to uterly corrupt your stale-humorous ways has been great!

& 3) We may not have all the high profiles that soley make other unnamed sites, But hey............combine the Aussies with the Americans & hell youv'e got yourself a winning team in battle against anything!

[Cyclura]

I see this has gotten a little astray from my original post lol jk. Well i know NOW to look harder of course, but i sure did look as hard as i could, scout's honor! I didnt see these holes untill i got them under my own light in my own tank. It was very hard to spot.

[V]

OMG, u mean to tell me this thread isn't about midgit wressling?

[Cyclura]

OMG, u mean to tell me this thread isn't about midgit wressling?

hahaha, sorry to have to break it to ya...but not exactly.