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Thread: Copepods - Podcast Episode 69

  1. #26
    Insightful Reefer vanmo92's Avatar
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    heres my thread about my new tank.

    http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1268

  2. #27
    Grand Master Reefer wildeone's Avatar
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    Hey - that is a great picture of some isopods! Can I borrow it for a presentation? I would give you a credit on the photo.
    Absolutley, so long as it is used for good and not evil purposes! LOL!

  3. #28
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Derek; venn,

    to TR.
    Carmie


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  4. #29
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    Killer show.... I would love to hear more about culturing your own copepods.
    JOHN

  5. #30
    Curious Reefer ladygator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m8298 View Post
    Killer show.... I would love to hear more about culturing your own copepods.
    Hi - Much of what we discussed is written down in the FAQ's at www.oceanpods.com and www.essentiallivefeeds.com. Feel free to send me questions if you make the attempt!

    Adelaide

  6. #31
    Grand Master Reefer wildeone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladygator View Post
    Hey - that is a great picture of some isopods! Can I borrow it for a presentation? I would give you a credit on the photo.
    Adelaide
    Oops, I forgot to mention that if you PM me with your email or if you just want to post it, I will send you the high res version of that photo. Thanks for all the great info!

  7. #32
    Grand Master Reefer wildeone's Avatar
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    Here is something I don't think was covered in the cast. I have these flatworms in my tank, and I was just following up to ensure that they were safe. I see them at night on the glass moving around. I don't see many, but I do see them. After looking them up at wwwWetWebMedia.com I find that they are a copepod eating flatworm and that they are harmless. Well unless you are a copepod....



    Photo compliments of Wetwebmedia

  8. #33
    Site Owner Rob's Avatar
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    there are not exactly "harmless" yes, they can consume copepods, they also can threaten corals if they reach very hi populations, they can start getting on coral tissue and causing damage. the damage is not direct, its more from it smothering the coral
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  9. #34
    Grand Master Reefer wildeone's Avatar
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    Thanks Rob, I will do some more homework so I can handle them if need be!

  10. #35
    Master Reefer JeffDubya's Avatar
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    Rob and Adelaide have made me a believer!

    My copepods arrived today... so I guess we'll see how culturing goes! I bought one bottle for my tank and one bottle for a culture I have started.

    Tomorrow I get my new phytoplankton strains; Isochrysis and Tetraselmis. I have dumped the rotifers and I am pretty much saying goodbye to nanno, except for the big jug I started with my existing cultures just for shits and giggles

    Thanks Rob for such a great resource and Adelaide for taking SO MUCH time out of your personal schedule to discuss all aspects of your work for a measly $50 sale. You both rule.
    "Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study Hard. Be evil."

    Abolish the IRS! Bring transparency and accountability to tax policy - close all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation. Support the Fair Tax plan... visit http://www.fairtax.org

  11. #36
    Site Owner Rob's Avatar
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    awesome, im glad we were able to help you
    please keep us updated on your success
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  12. #37
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    Ok guys. I need to culture some pods for my mandarin. He eats frozen blood worms but I want him to eat his natural food. I bought some of those tigger pods and he woofed them down. I have a small 37 cube tank with a small sump. I don't want to go the refugium route due to lack of space and I really don't want to have to tend to a seperate culture tank either. No space in display for a pod pile either. What I was thinking of was to get one of these small in sump/tank CPR refugiums and filling it with live rock rubble and putting it in my sump, then just dump the pods into this space. Will this work? Do I use the 100gph power head that comes with it? Do I need light since I've got no macro algae in it? How about since I will be dosing DT's to feed the little guys?. See link below to in sump fuge below.

    http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...1&N=2004&Nty=1

  13. #38
    Curious Reefer
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    Will a pump's impeller kill pods? I am assuming the pods are transported from the sump via the return pump in low numbers as they adventure out of the fuge area?

  14. #39
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Hi Robster, to TR. Although some pods may be killed as thee pass through your pump most will make it to the diaplay alive.
    Carmie


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  15. #40
    Master Reefer JeffDubya's Avatar
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    Why not start a side culture?
    "Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study Hard. Be evil."

    Abolish the IRS! Bring transparency and accountability to tax policy - close all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation. Support the Fair Tax plan... visit http://www.fairtax.org

  16. #41
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    I just don't want to deal with water changes and sifting the pods out of the culture tank as well as the changes of the culture tank crashing due to water quality. What is wrong with my plan?

  17. #42
    Master Reefer JeffDubya's Avatar
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    I didn't say there was anything wrong with your plan.

    However, if you want a larger, more sustainable amount - you will need a side culture. The problem with trying to culture in your fuge or tank is that you have critters in there who like to eat them. Uninterrupted reproduction and propagation is always the best way to go.

    It's not that much work, except that you also need to culture phyto for them.
    "Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study Hard. Be evil."

    Abolish the IRS! Bring transparency and accountability to tax policy - close all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation. Support the Fair Tax plan... visit http://www.fairtax.org

  18. #43
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    Need Answers Please....

    Nothing else will be eating the pods. This is a suction cup acrylic cube that you place in your sump. I plan on loading it with live rock rubble and then dumping in a couple bottles of pods. The ones that escape will be pumped into the display by the return pump. Will this small space be enough room for them to reproduce? Do they need a light source? Will the rubble be sufficient for them vs. macro algae?
    The mini in sump fuge comes with a 100gph power head. Should I use this or not? Too much flow? The fuge does have holes in it to allow some water exchange.

  19. #44
    Curious Reefer ladygator's Avatar
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    Hi - Rob was writing to me on the side, so I am just posting our conversation to see if it informs the process. Let me know if you need more details:

    > I have a Mandarin in my small reef tank (37 gal). It has only 40
    > lbs of live rock in it. I do not have a refugium and don't have any space
    > for adding a fuge at this time. He is eating frozen blood worms but
    > prefers pods. I purchased a bottle of the larger type of brown pods
    > (Tigriopus Californicus?). They claim there were 500 in there. It appears
    > that he has eaten these all up within a month. Is this possible? Is it
    > possible for me to put your 2000 pods in my tank and have them reproduce
    > keeping a constant supply for the mandarin? Or will he eventually wipe
    > these out? I do not have any other pod eaters in the tank. Just trying to
    > determine if I should just overstock the main tank with pods or setup a
    > culture tank with my 2.5 gallon tank I use for hatching brine. Your
    > thoughts?
    >

    Hi Rob - When you have the live food in with the fish, it is a numbers
    game ultimately. The Ocean Pods bottles I sell have about 1,000
    animals, but most are small. While it may sound counterintuitive, the
    small ones will actually help your mandarin more because they pack a
    lot of nutrition into a small space, they provide stimulation because
    they hang out near the bottom where the mandarin hangs, and they
    reproduce faster and avoid predation more than the larger species you
    might have tried with. If you want to be extra extra sure you have
    enough, you don't have to set up an entire tank system. You could
    actually get away with a simple side culture in a large mason jar or a
    tupperware container. Check out the FAQ's on my website, and that
    might give you some ideas. A brine tank is okay, but if it is conical,
    that will not be an advantage to the copepods, they need flat surface
    areas for grazing and production. Just try a simple jar at first.

    Hope this helps

    > If I were to do a side culture in a 2.5 gallon glass aquarium could I
    > keep it in the garage if I have a heater in the water? How often do you
    > have to do water changes on something like this? How about dosing with
    > DT's. How much would I put in the tank per day? 1 drop per day, per
    > week? Is an air pump needed? Should I use an airstone or just the air
    > tubing?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Rob


    I like to use a piece of rigid tubing or pipette if I use air, so I can
    regulate flow better. Airstones are okay, but hard to control the size
    of the bubbles which might get trapped under the carapaces of the
    copepods.

    I wouldn't do water changes often, but I would split the container into
    a backup jar or tupperware dish whenever you change something about the
    system. If you use homegrown or algal products like DT's, I recommend
    that you put about 1 mL every three days to a week - watch that the
    coloration does not become too dark or that any cloudy or smelly water
    starts to happen. I would change water once every two weeks or so,
    just 25 % , and filter out the copepods so you can put them back into
    culture. Of course, once you start adding to your system, just top off
    the wate rto replace any removed to get the pods out.

    Adelaide

  20. #45
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    What about the mini fuge w/rubble idea?

    Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to me. I know you must have a busy schedule and appreciate that you take the time to answer basic questions for us reefers. What about the mini fuge w/live rock rubble idea mentioned above. Do you think this small space will be (7-3/4" x 4" x 7-1/2") packed with live rock rubble will be enough space to pack 1 bottle of your Oceanpods? Do you think they will be able to reproduce there and then occasionally be exported via my return pump to the main tank? Will this be enough to keep my bloodworm eating Mandarin happy? I was thinking I would refresh this once per quarter...? Also, the fuge comes with a 100 gph powerhead that sucks in water outside the mini fuge and blows it into the fuge. There are also holes on around the mini fuge for pods to escape and to help with water exchange.

  21. #46
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    Anyone?

    Anyone have an opinion on this idea?

  22. #47
    Master Reefer NaClFinatic's Avatar
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    Well I can't say much but that size is only 1 gallon and 100x that for circulation sounds way too high.

    Which brings up a question... What is a good flow rate for a refugium (especially one to grow copepod populations)?

    I sure the fuge and LR couldn't hurt yor pod population. Would some sand help pods also?

  23. #48
    Grand Master Reefer JustDavidP's Avatar
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    Robster,

    I'm going to give you an "out of the box" reply and say that ANY additional refugium that you can set up is better than none. Yes, set up that in sump fuge and put some of the pods in there. You will most likely get a small population going in there. With the protection of the "box", they should sustain themselves. Now, whether or not this is enough for your system... I don't know.

    At the same time, you really should try to keep another culture going. First of all, you're going to need lots of pods to keep a mandarin happy if he/she is not eating frozen foods. Other fish/corals/worms/etc. in the display will also add to the depletion of pods as they really are "free game" for anything that can ingest them. Second reason is just for simple "back up". Anyone who "cultures" anything always has a back up plan.

    Though really fragile and tiny, pods are pretty resilient creatures. This is why our tanks bloom with them when we add live rock. Just imagine making the harvest, cleaning, preparation, shipping, acclimation process while burrowed into a nook of rock. If they can survive that, they can survive lots of stressing situations. With that said, go set up a crude culture. I've found that the more common amphipods and copepods can deal with real swings in salinity, temperature, and lighting configurations. I've let my cultures go for a week or more without top off, food, and other "necessities". Sure, you may have some die off for some issue or another, but again, they are pretty hearty! I'm currently using tanks for pod production. But in the past, I've used tupperware, plastic pretzel jars, two liter bottles.... you name it. Go ahead, give it a try. It's probably one of the CHEAPEST experiments you will perform in this crazy habit...er...hobby of ours.

    FWIW... I personally do NOT subscribe to the impeller sheer issues that many say causes death in micro crustaceans in our systems. First and foremost, those "tests" were conducted using adult brine shrimp. OF COURSE they will suffer from going through that type of abuse. However, the majority of juvenile pods, shrimp etc. are pushed through pumps with no ill effect. It is actually those smaller, younger, more nutritional specimens that we want in our displays.

    The pump size/water flow in your fuge should be enough to bring oxygenated water through the system containing the pods, without causing "turbulance" in the system. This is true for most refugium set ups and allows more "contact time" for the water and solids therein to have with the various micro fauna and flora that will "take them up". The ONLY time I add additional flow to a refugium is if I have incorporated a deep sand bed (DSB) that needs good flow to remain healthy.

    I practice the same methods in my skimming habits. I allow more time for water to make contact with the bubbles and therefore give the solids more time to adhere to those bubbles. PUSHING too much water, too fast, through any system will result in the re circulation of that water and the contained nutrient load as it loses a game of statistics in the cleaning/skimming process.

    Dave
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  24. #49
    Grand Master Reefer JustDavidP's Avatar
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    NaClFinatic Sand is great...except if you are setting up a true "culture" that needs to be split from time to time. The introduction of sand, while giving more surface space for the lil' bugs to graze and live upon, would make one heck of a mess during moves/splits.

    In a refugium system, it would be a positive.

    Dave
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    "Fins to the left...Fins to the Right, I'm going home to play with my reef tonight..."

    If you're looking for me, and I'm MIA from the board, email me at JustDavidP (at) gmail (dot) com.

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  25. #50
    Curious Reefer ladygator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robster View Post
    Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to me. I know you must have a busy schedule and appreciate that you take the time to answer basic questions for us reefers. What about the mini fuge w/live rock rubble idea mentioned above. Do you think this small space will be (7-3/4" x 4" x 7-1/2") packed with live rock rubble will be enough space to pack 1 bottle of your Oceanpods? Do you think they will be able to reproduce there and then occasionally be exported via my return pump to the main tank? Will this be enough to keep my bloodworm eating Mandarin happy? I was thinking I would refresh this once per quarter...? Also, the fuge comes with a 100 gph powerhead that sucks in water outside the mini fuge and blows it into the fuge. There are also holes on around the mini fuge for pods to escape and to help with water exchange.
    Hi Rob - Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I did not see the post in my mailbox.

    Anyway, I think a space of 1/2 to 2 gallons is sufficient to get started. I have several mason jars in this size range I use for excess pods when harvesting, and they do fine in there for several months. I agree with JustDavidP that the shear tests were not done on all species of microcrustaceans. Artemia, or brine shrimp, are found in lakes and other static water bodies, while copepods are often subjected to shear forces in the tide pools and estuaries they inhabit. The harpacticoid copepods have torpedo-shaped bodies and small antennae, which facilitates their survival when drawn through pumps. I have also observed an instinctual tendency to swim away from currents, so this may explain why they are able to persist in systems with large volumes of flowthrough.

    Hope this helps, feel free to give me an email nudge at adelaide@essentiallivefeeds.com if I don't see your post.

    Regards,

    Adelaide

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