Black specks on my Clowns

[RocketSeason]

I have several black specks on my clowns.



Now, my fish have been under some stress lately and this may have set it off. My air conditioning went out on thursday and they have been experiencing higher tempratures for several days. (83-84 degrees)

My question is this: Is this black Ich, and if so, do I treat it like regular Ich? Do I bother treating it at all? I hear black Ich can go away on its own.

Thanks for your help!

-Matt

[Amphibious]

Hey Matt,

I've been around a long time, never heard of black ich. However, it is obvious there are black spots where there shouldn't be. This could be due to the stress induced by the high temp. Are your fish exhibiting rapid gill movement indicating an inability to get enough oxygen? Any other symptoms?

[V]

Black Ich!





Uch tung Baby!!!!! just for you my fellow musketeer


Black Ich disease appears as small black spots distributed over the fish's body. The spots are about half the size of a pinhead or smaller. They are primarily found on the body and are are especially easy to see on light-colored body areas or on the transparent areas of the fins. Affected fish will scratch on the bottom or other aquarium objects. Other signs of the disease include lethargy, development of a pale body color, and lack of appetite. The disease is caused by a small worm known as a tubellarian. After parasitizing a fish, the worms develop on the fish's skin and gills and acquire dark pigmentation. They are freely mobile and will tend to move over the surface of the fish. After five or six days depending on the environmental conditions, they drop to the bottom of the aquarium. There they mature, with the development of the young worms within their body. Once the development of the young is complete, the adult worms burst, releasing the free swimming young that infest new host fish. The worms can be controlled with various commercially available medications. Formalin based products or those containing organophosphate compounds such as trichlorfon appear to be the best medications. In addition to the use of medications, any excessive buildup or organic material and debris should be siphoned from the aquarium several times during treatment. Since the young worms develop on the aquarium bottom, the removal of debris will aid in controlling the disease by reducing their numbers. So, throw me another coldie & lets watch Ampcast!

[RocketSeason]

sigh, well My hospital tank is full of Live Rock right now. I guess I could start moving that rock into buckets or something and clean out the hospital tank for the clowns.

I do not notice any abnormal behavoir on the clowns at all. there are just pretty much there normal crazy selves.

Anyone have any other pointers? This is luckily the first time I have had to treat Ich in many years of fish keeping. (both fresh and salted)

I have the additional complication of having a Potters Angel arriving on September 10th and as soon as that comes in, it has to immediately go into the display tank.

Life for a reefer is complex.

[Amphibious]

Oh, OK, it the Turbellaria worm disease commonly found on Yellow Tangs. I've never heard it called black ich before. Probably because the Ich we are most familiar with is a white cyst, not mobile on the fish, and the Turbellaria worm is black and can move around on the fish.

So, V, where do you throw the empties and let's have another coldie.

[V]

im donating the tinnie's for the upcoming twister2 movie! they can make more flying censor thingyies! alot more............. as for the bottles, dont u remember?, we were collecting so many of them that u came up with the idea of melting them down so we could remake them into our own brand of reagent test tubes! the jugs i managed to hide!safe for another day!

[RocketSeason]

So treating this like normal Ich is the way to go? Any suggestions?

[RocketSeason]

Guys,

Some folks over at RC are suggesting this may be hypermelanization from touching stinging corals.

Its possible I guess... although I have never heard of stings from GSP or zoos or other polyps.

[V]

This is from chucks addiction, not my own findings!



Clownfish HyperMelanization - I have seen this be a common occurance with clownfish that host corals, I assume that since clown fish's skin is adapted to dealing with the stinging power of anemone, the darkening of the skin is a response in trying to deal with the foreign mucous and stings of corals, I have never seen this condition become a problem for the fish and they seem to do just fine.









Turbellarian or "black ich" is caused by one or more genus of flatworm, with distinct life cycles as you see with the true marine ich. The only obvious sign of this parasite are the dark spots which is a skin reaction of the fish being attacked by the parasite and is not the actual parasite.

[CarmieJo]

I think I read something about a person getting stung by zoos and ending up in the hospital because they were hyper-sensitive so I think that they do sitng.

[RocketSeason]

Well, zoos are highly toxic and it is possible to become hospitalized upon ingestion. I know of one case where I dog had died within 24 hours of drinking water from a zoo-filled tank.

I don't see how the clowns could have gotten burned on the top of their bodies from the zoos though.

And this really doesn't look like Ich.

[Amphibious]

Well, zoos are highly toxic and it is possible to become hospitalized upon ingestion. I know of one case where I dog had died within 24 hours of drinking water from a zoo-filled tank.

Do you know this to be a fact (first hand experience) or are you repeating something you heard? I am very suspect that this is true. Make the dog sick, yes. Die in 24 hours? I doubt it. If the dog did indeed drink enough saltwater to die, it must have been dieing of thirst in the first place. I think under normal conditions, the dog would take one lick and leave it alone. Just my humble opinion.

I don't see how the clowns could have gotten burned on the top of their bodies from the zoos though.

Good observation.

And this really doesn't look like Ich.

It doesn't look like Ich because it isn't Ich. Ich is caused by a very specific protozoan, in fresh water it is Ichthyophthirius multifilius, hence the shortened name Ich. In saltware it is Cryptocarion irritans. The disease were discussing here is caused by a worm, Turbellarian.

Attaching common names (names given to scientific items by the general public because they won't take the time to learn) are most often miss leading. For instance, my pet favorite, False Percula Clown. There is no such fish in the scientific world. The fish referred to as the FPC is Amphiprion ocellaris, the Ocellaris Clown the name of the fish being keyed off here is of course Amphiprion percula. We could keep everything straight if we simply learned to use correct terminology.

[CarmieJo]

We could keep everything straight if we simply learned to use correct terminology.

Reminds of a music tape my son had when he was in early elementary school. It had a song about dinosaurs and the complaint was that their names were too hard. The verse ended with something like "Why didn't we name them Bob or Sue..."

[V]

your on the money Amp, its a tag assigned for the masses! but indeed not correct at all, its just like the handful of brands in everyday like!

[RocketSeason]

Didn't mean to confuse you Amphibious. What I meant to say is that This does not look like the two common parasitic attacks which I previously believed them to be.

The first of which is commonly referred to as "Marine Ich" or more accurately, Cryptocarion irritans.

The second of which is known as “Black Ich” or more accurately, a metazoan parasite which can cause a skin reaction on the surface of some fishes resulting in a black mark (also known as Turbellarian).

I do apologies for the confusion Amphibious. Oh, and by the way, its not False Percula Clown or Ocellaris Clown. Its called a “Nemo Fish” Thank you very much.

And here is the case of the dead dog. Straight from the horses mouth.

[Rob]

...Attaching common names (names given to scientific items by the general public because they won't take the time to learn) are most often miss leading. For instance, my pet favorite, False Percula Clown. There is no such fish in the scientific world. The fish referred to as the FPC is Amphiprion ocellaris, the Ocellaris Clown the name of the fish being keyed off here is of course Amphiprion percula. We could keep everything straight if we simply learned to use correct terminology.

i did a whole show on this, and couldn't agree more..

[RocketSeason]

well, I have had my clowns in QT for 5 days. Treated them with copper. The brown spots have not dissappeared. How long does it take for a normal parasite to drop off of a clowns body?

These guys have had this for two and a half weeks now. (with an escallation about a week ago.) I am beginning to suspect something other than parasites.

[Amphibious]

well, I have had my clowns in QT for 5 days. Treated them with copper. The brown spots have not dissappeared. How long does it take for a normal parasite to drop off of a clowns body? These guys have had this for two and a half weeks now. (with an escallation about a week ago.) I am beginning to suspect something other than parasites.

Every "normal" parasite has a different life cycle. One of the first things to do is identify the parasite so we know what treatment is effective. I'm not sure we've done that yet. So, the copper treatment may be the wrong treatment. Or the parasite, if that's what it is, has not completed that portion of it's life cycle. It's just really hard to know because we are dealing with pictures and it's hard to identify the parasite. If the clowns are not in any stress in the QT, I'd leave them for awhile.