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Thread: The Road to DanaMcK's 240g and 180g Dream Tanks

  1. #76
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    My six-line is a perfect fish - no problem with corals - can be a little agressive with other fish.

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    Master Reefer keyozoxmfc's Avatar
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    hmm im still considering it.. i would like my tank peaceful, cause i get too stressed when i have agressive fish. when i had cichlids, i had about 10 die from getting attacked

    man now im really looking at a 100 gallon FOWLR TANK!!!
    -Mark

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  3. #78
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Just add him last and he will probably be fine.

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    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    March 4th update:

    180 is doing great. I moved the Moorish Idol and Black Cap Basslett into the 180 from QT. Both are doing great and getting along splendidly with the Purple Tang, Flame Angel, Yellow Tail Blue Damsel, and pair of Purple Firefish. I currently have a Flagfin Angel in QT for this tank - this is my wife's favorite fish.

    I also purchased a gorgeous Scott's Fairy Wrasse yesterday that is destined for the 240 reef tank after a stint in QT. This fish is stunning, and ate less than 1 minute after being put in QT.

    Pictures coming later in the week.

  5. #80
    Apprentice chase33's Avatar
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    Great thread. Lots of information. Danamck, I like your corals and fish. I also like the plumbing on the 240.

    /C

  6. #81
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Thanks, chase33. I really had a lot of fun putting it all together. And yes - there's nothing like hard pvc plumbing - at least you know that should never leak!

    I really do feel lucky - I have a nice size tank for corals and reef-safe fish, and a nice size tank for non-reef-safe fish (although it occurred to me that all the fish in the 180, with the possible exception of the Moorish Idol, are reef safe! Bring on the Angels and Butterflies!

  7. #82
    Master Reefer iglowce's Avatar
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    i have 3 fish for my nano right now: mandarin, red scooter and flasher wrasse. they are all peceaful, gorgeous and doing well =]

    did i mention reef-safe?

  8. #83
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    OK. This has been a really crazy 2 weeks with my 240 reef. If you've read the thread, then you know I had two dedicated 20 amp circuits installed recently - one for the 240 reef and one for the recently set up 180 FOWLR. Of course these were GFI circuits.

    Well, I woke up one morning to find that the 240 circuit had tripped. Based on the temp of the tank, it had probably been out 6 - 7 hours. UGGGGGHHHHH! Fortunately, the temp had only gone down to 72.5. I fired everything up and went to work. When I came home, the tank was back to 78. All the fish appeared fine. All the corals were fine with the exception of two leathers. That evening, I set my alarm to wake up every few hours to make sure the circuit did not trip again. It didn't. The next day we went out for the entire day, only to return home to the 240 with no power.

    To make a long story a bit shorter, the circuit kept tripping intermitently. Sometimes it would stay on for days, sometimes for only a few seconds. Obviously, something was causing this to happen. I ruled out the actual circuit by swapping it with the 180 - same problem.

    The weird part was that if the circuit had been off for a while, the tank would start right up with no problem. But one day it happened while I was home. When I went to reset the circuit, it tripped immediately. So I unplugged everything, turned on the circuit, and started plugging in everything one at a time. I started with all the pumps first, thinking that one of these would be the likely culprit. Wouldn't you know it - I ended up being able to plug EVERYTHING back in - and the circuit did NOT trip.

    I knew I had to resove this soon, as we were planning on going on vacation soon. So I stayed home one day and waited for the circuit to trip. It did. This time I used a different approach. I ran a heavy duty extension cord over to the tank from the outlet, and started plugging in each component directly, one at a time. Everything worked fine until at last - I plugged in one of the 3 sets of power compact lights I have on the tank and the circuit tripped. I tested this twice more to make sure it wasn't a fluke. It wasn't. At last I had found the guilty party.

    It has been 4 days now - and no more circuit trips! A new set of lights should be here Monday. All the fish are fine, and the 2 leathers have finally opened fully again. The strange part is I was sure that the item causing the trip was something in contact with the water, like a pump or powerhead. Turned out I was wrong.

  9. #84
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Good detective work.
    Carmie


    Only disasters happen fast!





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  10. #85
    Master Reefer keyozoxmfc's Avatar
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    glad to hear that!
    i would have died in the situation and not known what to do.
    -Mark

    Tank Journal

    All Cows Smoke Grass.
    That is why we have HIGH GRADE milk.

    I've Got More Grams Than Teddy
    and don't worry, be hyphy

  11. #86
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    It's been over a week and no more circuit trips. Yeah! All corals and fish are good (I was just waiting for my Powder Blue Tang to have an ich outbreak due to the stress of a drop in temp and no water circulation for 8 hours - didn't happen!)

    Gave the 180 it's first water change (I call this a major clean, vs. a minor clean which is just cleaning the sides, salt creep, skimmer collection cup, etc.) All is well. 240 gets a major clean tomorrow. Sunday I get out the digital camera and get some new photos posted ... it's been too long.

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    Apprentice chase33's Avatar
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    I'm not an electrician so I must ask what was wrong with the lights that caused them to trip the circuit? Are the new set you're purchasing different from the set that tripped the circuit?

    /C

  13. #88
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Chase33 -

    I am not an electrician either. That said, I hace 3 different sets of power compact lights on my 240, each set consists of a single ballast and 2 96 watt bulbs. The set that failed was the oldest of the lights, it used to be the lights on my 125 way back when. I can only guess that there was some kind of short in the ballast or the end caps that attach to the bulbs. The new set is identical to the other 2 sets (SunPaq).

    The good news is that the new set of lights are installed, the livestock is fine, and no more trips. I feel much better about the trip I will be taking soon!

  14. #89
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Here are some recent photos of the 180. This tank was set up as a FOWLR, to help me feed my love of butterflies and angels. Funny thing is - so far I have yet to add and butterflies or non-reef-safe angels. Go figure! The Flagfin Angel in QT did not make it. I am very torn regarding purchasing fish directly from importers (I have a friend who owns a LFS). While this may seem awesome (the fish tend to be 1/3 what you would pay for in a LFS) you don't have the ability to see if the fish have survived the shipping ordeal, or if they are eating. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I am amazed that the mortality rate of fish isn't higher, given what they endure on their trip from the ocean to our LFS. Neither my wife or I enjoy watching a fish slowly starve to death, so we have decided to purchase livestock from our LFS from now on.

    The tank was set up with the goal of doing it as energy efficeint and as cheap as possible (without skimping on the important stuff). I live in California, and energy costs are very high here. The energy bill for my 240 reef tank (keep in mind this tank has no chiller and no metal halide lights) is $250 a month! I promised my wife that the 180 would only add about $75 to our monthly bill. I think I pulled it off.

    The stand is a basic pine stand and canopy. The lights are basic T5s. There are 8 36" 21 watt bulbs, 6 daylight and 2 actinic. This is probably the only thing I'm going to upgrade. While I love T5s, I should have sprung for the high output ones. The current lighting scheme works out to 1 watt per gallon (I can here you laughing!) Keep in mind this is a FOWLR tank, though I did add some Kenya Tree weeds, I mean corals, and a green stripe mushroom. I also plan to add some Xenia and Colt Coral frags, as my Xenia is taking over the 240 and the Colt Coral badly needs a trim! They will probably become fish food for the angles and butterflies, but you never know.

    The filtration consists of 175 lbs of Tonga live rock and 200 lbs of live sand (no skimping here!) I do not believe in deep sand beds (the topic of another thread) so the sand bed is only 1" - 2". I am using a standard 40 gallons glass tank as the sump. I use a 100 micron filter sleeve to filter particulate matter, and a Euro Reef RS180 skimmer for disolved waste. I found the 180 on Craigs List, BRAND NEW, for around $200 - an absolute steal. A 250 watt heater keeps the tank warm. There is no chiller, as all my tanks are in my garage, which stays nice and cool in the summer. I am using a 25 watt UV sterilizer to help prevent any water borne disease outbreaks (and yes - I QT all my livestock!) I am also running a Phosphate Reactor with RowaPhos. Water circulation is provided by (2) Quiet One 3000s (not my favorite pumps - but I had them lying around) for the sump returns. (2) Seio 820s and (1) Seio 1100 provide additional water movement. They are ugly, but they move a lot of water and use very little power. Total water turnover is 22x.

    OK - enough text - on with the photos! The first is a shot of the entire tank. The second is the left third, staring my mated pair of Purple Fire Fish. The third photo is the middle, which happens to be the home of my Black Cap Basslet. He also is the only fish (out of 4) that I purchased from the importer to survive. The fourth photo is the right side of the tank. Yep - so far so good with the Morrish Idol. He is doing great. My only concern with the him is that he really needs to eat a lot. In the wild they are constantly grazing on sponge and algae. I am feeding my tank way more than I would like to in order to keep him looking healthy. The good news is that he eats EVERYTHING, so he is getting a good variety of foods. The bad news is my Purple Tang and Flame Angel need to go on a diet! The last photo is of the Moorish Idol striking a pose!

    Man I need to get a better camera.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #90
    Master Reefer keyozoxmfc's Avatar
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    AMAZING!!! everytime i see this, i want a fowlr tank more and more!

    haha no offense or anything though, but i must say that i am always intimidated by your posts. i see them and i see all those words lol but then iread it and im glad i did.

    and your electricity bill is really high! are you with PG and E? haha i htink mine was 80 for my whole house. and if you dont mind me asking, in relation to SF, where do you live? like kinda near san jose, or like san leandro?i love sf for the cool weather and its never burning hot..esp for my reef
    -Mark

    Tank Journal

    All Cows Smoke Grass.
    That is why we have HIGH GRADE milk.

    I've Got More Grams Than Teddy
    and don't worry, be hyphy

  16. #91
    Our Brotha Down Unda
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    Your placement of the rocks is orsome, untill maybe when they get bigger & try to still sqeeze through conditioned places . Im not up to speed why the DSB is off the cards, must have missed that thread. I wouldn't worry to much about choices, im still partial to BB personally. as long as you sump increases your filtration abilities your sweet. Not to mention you can get away with murder on a fish only set-up.

    you mentioned shipping & survivability. I know its along time, & taking away factors like oxygen & warmth your left with the straight transportation side. Now looking at it, usually they arrive in poly boxes, both themal & dark properties, so your only other query or concern is if nuff nuff @ the start didn't do something stupid & blow the bag up by mouth right! Being that its dark, the fish kinda shut down in auto mode (night behaviour) & as long as the journey isn't a voilent one, if they have been packed professionally its prob not much worst that strong currents in the ocean.

    well im not even going to start on the lighting, cause unless your expanding outside of the Softy /FO type set-up your sweet.

    Nice job bud, i like what you've done with the place. Ive got to ask though, the garage? kinda dismal for veiwing isn't not to mention any future neglect?



    Vquilibrium Productions

  17. #92
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    keyozoxmfc -

    Don't be afraid - words are good! Yes - $250 a month for electricity, confirmed. In California, your given a base line for electircity useage. The more you go over it, the more you pay per kilowatt hour.

    Scotts Valley is the city you pass just before you get to Santa Cruz.

  18. #93
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    veriann -

    Thanks for all the compliments. Coming from you they mean a lot.

    My hatred (OK - way too strong a word - how about dislike) of DSBs comes from having them a while back in 2 different tanks (75 and 46). It seemed no matter what I did, I always had a problem with cyanobacteria. Some of the stores I frequent that use DSBs seem to have the same problems. Plus - they are just plain ugly and take up valuable space for water and more fishies! I realize this is just my oppinion, and like many aspects of this hobby there are many paths to success. I agree that BB is the way to go, I just hate the look (though I have seen tanks that use corals like green star polyps to cover the bottom glass - sweet!

    I agree it's not the shipping that's the problems. It's how the fish are captured, how they are treated after the capture, the fact that they are not fed (a good thing, seeing as how they will spend a few days in very little water!) It's also how they are treated when they arrive at local importers. I have visited two local importers, and one does an awesome job, one should be shut down. The latter's method to acclimate fish is by dumping the bags in empty tanks (the fish are left flopping around in too little water) and then slowly drip in the new water. Cruel.

    Lighting - I know I know! People who see my reef tank are amazed at the growth I am getting with only 600 watts of PC lighting on a 240 tank. I think that offering excellent water quality, strong circulation, and feeding the corals regularly allows me to have corals thrive with very little light (including a couple of SPS corals!)

    Garage - let me tell you 'bout my garage. It's finished: sheetrock, paint, carpet, etc. Never had a car parked in it. I've got a TV, a couple of nice speakers and sub for music, a small fridge for fish food and beer (what else do you need?) and a killer chair from which to be rule over my utopia. When my wife can't find me - she knows where to look ...

  19. #94
    Master Reefer keyozoxmfc's Avatar
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    OHH MAN!! whatta room! i wish i had a fish room, but then my room is...but i need a killer chair too!
    -Mark

    Tank Journal

    All Cows Smoke Grass.
    That is why we have HIGH GRADE milk.

    I've Got More Grams Than Teddy
    and don't worry, be hyphy

  20. #95
    Our Brotha Down Unda
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    SWEET, i love a good den, lazy chair a must.



    Vquilibrium Productions

  21. #96
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Been a while: here's an update.

    The Scotts Fairy Wrasse was added to the 240 after 5 weeks in QT. After 2 days of being harrassed by the Solar Fairy Wrasse and my Powder Blue Tang (of course - the ruler of the tank) he has settled in nicely. It's a shame - he really puts the Solar Fairy Wrasse to shame. But by having both, it is my hope that they will maintain their intense colors. So far, so good.

    So now all I need to do is find a mate for my Hawaiian Flame Wrasse, and the 240 is done. 14 fish in a 240. All small except the PBT. Low fish load = low nutrients = higher water quality with less work.

    Now that I'm back from vacation, I can focus on the 180 FOWLR a little more. The tank is doing great. Thanks to the 50 + pounds of established live rock from the old 46, and some live sand from the 240, it never went through a cycle. Just a small diatom bloom. No hair algae, no cyano. The sound you can't hear is me knocking on wood. Water parameters are all great. Only one issue:

    The Purple Tang and the Moorish Idol are wailing on each other, but only at night. They are obviously fighting over the same resting spot. So I will attempt to catch the Purple Tang when I do a water change this weekend. (I can hear you all say good luck with that!) While Purple Tangs are beautiful, eating and thriving Moorish Idols are beyond rare, so he wins. MY LFS has already agreed to take the Purple Tang.

    My first attempt at fragging Xenia was a total success! Thanks for the podcast Rob. Only one frag was lost. The other 9 are ready to be given up for adoption. I'm giving some to a local fish store, and the rest of going to friends. And just in time, I could frag 20 - 30 pieces of Xenia and still have too much in my 240. This stuff is like a weed!

    Photos are coming. Thanks for reading.

  22. #97
    Curious Reefer Bluemax4's Avatar
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    They should put your age under your name. I like your photos to. That must have cost a lot, and must take a lot care.

  23. #98
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Actually, once the 240 was "dialed" (that's my word for it - actally it's when the tank is biologically established and stable) it was a piece of cake. That took a year. For the first year, I remember spending hours a day and entire weekends messing with the tank. Now I spend 10-15 minutes each day for feeding and adding supplements, one hour a week for what I call a "minor clean" (clean the sides, empty and clean the skimmer, replace diatom bag and Chemi Pure, etc.), and 4 hours a month on what I call a "major clean". This is when I do my water changes, clean pumps, harvest the chaeto out of the refugium, etc. I may need an extra hour now that I'm going to be fragging Xenia, my Colt Coral, and my Kenya Tree on a monthly basis.

    The funny thing is - I used to dread these chores back when I had my 125. Now I don't dread tham at all. It's all part of this crazy hobby we find ourselves in. I follow three rules:

    1) Don't neglect your maintenance - find a schedule that works for you and your tank and stick to it. It's easy to stay on top of your tank. It's harder to play "catch up" once problems arrise.

    2) Make it fun. I crank the music when I do my minor and major cleanings. Adding a nice pair of speakers and a sub-woofer in the garage was one of the smartest things I did. It adds the perfect "soundtrack" to my cleanings.

    3) Make it a point to spend as much time enjoying your tank as you do working on it. Just sit back and enjoy your small slice of the ocean and marvel at how far our hobby has come. After all, this hobby is supposed to be fun, right?

    Bluemax4 - thanks for your compliments. BTW - I'm 43, and have had a fish tank pretty much all of my life.

  24. #99
    Our Brotha Down Unda
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    43 , wow you old fart, your face doesn';t display it!

    just dont plug the music to excessivly loud, loud enough to be heard up the street, wavelengths translate into stress & losses.

    you've decked out the entire car den havn't you?



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  25. #100
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veriann View Post

    you've decked out the entire car den havn't you?
    If you only knew:

    I'm in the A/V business, so I've got three 5' high racks of equipment that I share with every room in the house, including the garage. I could spend weeks in there and never get bored! Though I would get a little pale.

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