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Thread: The Road to DanaMcK's 240g and 180g Dream Tanks

  1. #26
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Josh - good for you. I was raised in a family where drugs and alcohol were serious problems. I thank God I was the oldest, and wise enough to realize what was going on. This may sound lame, but I didn't have my first beer until I was 20. At the time - I much prefered spending my money on albums (Josh - they're like big CDs that played music with lots of hisses and pops!) and books and, of course - fish stuff!

    Carmie - I am so sorry to hear that. I hope our kidding around hasn't offended you.

  2. #27
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    Dana,

    No offense taken. Kidding is a way of life in our house. I just try to take advantage of opportunities to communicate that real people, even someone that you might know, get hurt by drinking and driving. The silver lining is that I don't think any of my son's close friends will ever drink and drive.
    Carmie


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  3. #28
    Master Reefer Small Fry's Avatar
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    lmao, thank you for clearing up what "albums" are i didnt know

    and im third oldest, with 20, and 24 year old brother (they believe in saving up alot of monay before leaving home). Of course their friends and stuff only add to the equation.

    But i dont get what the point of having drinks that can make an idiot out of anyone is (not implying that all people are irrespoinsibal drinkers). I dont know why, but im always driven (by myslef) to be the "good one" :/
    Josh

    Small Frys 120

    Fish- 1 Percula Clown, Black fin Shrimp Goby

    Clown and Goby are just chilling in the NanoCube 12

    120 almost ready for re-cycle


  4. #29
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders.
    Carmie


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  5. #30
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    My Dream Tank - Take 4

    When I last left off, all of the fish in my 240 had come down with a horrible case of ich after the death of my juvenile Queen Angel. Talk about adding insult to injury! I thought briefly about packing it in, but there was no way I was giving up after all the effort I had put into this tank. Call me stubborn ...

    30 Days

    Way before I had decided to switch from coral skeletons to live rock, I had weighed all the options. Really, the only negative, other than the cost, was the possiblity of a disease outbreak with no way to treat the display tank. And so rather than sell off my old 46 bow front tank, I decided to hang onto it "just in case". Little did I know "just in case" would happen so quickly.

    I tried lowering the salinity. It had no effect. So on a Saturday morning, I took out all the live rock, setting it on a tarp and covering it with wet towels. Trying to catch the fish with the rock in the tank would have been impossible. Trying to catch the fish w/o the live rock in the tank was only slightly easier.

    I need to tell you about my French Angel, the one that I purchased when he was but a wee little fish. He was more than a fish. He was more like a dog. He was also the most trusting fish I have ever owned. I try not to use nets to catch fish unless I have to. I usually use nets to direct the fish into plastic and glass pitchers. The biggest pitcher I own is only slightly larger than the French. But having been moved on serveral occassions, he understood what was going on. It's not that he would willingly swin into the pitcher. But he would let me gently catch him with the pitcher, and he would not freak out and start splashing around either. I wish I had taken photos of him in these situations. Just imagine a large French Angel, calmly hanging out in a pitcher only slightly larger than he was. Amazing.

    Anyway, after several hours, I had transfered all the fish to the 46 bow front. Imagine this: an adult French Angel, a sub-adult Emperor Angel, a Potter's Angel, (2) Golden Butterfly Fish, a Falcula Butterfly, a Powder Blue Tang, a False Percula, a Royal Gramma, a Flame Hawk, and a Yellow Tail Damsel - all in a 46. Amazingly, they all got along perfectly. Though I needed to do daily 20 gallon water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels down.

    And so my dream tank, my 240 gallon dream tank, was allowed to run fallow over the next 30 days.

    A Change of Plans ... Again

    Prior to my ich problem, something else was happening. One day while visiting my LFS, the owner gave me a shell covered with Green Star Polyps. I knew they would get eaten in the 240, so I put them into my wife's 75. Then a friend of mine gave me some Kenya Tree coral frags. Into the 75 they went. A few zoanthids and a small Colt Coral later, I found I "kinda liked" these corals. Meanwhile, my wife wanted a Flagfin Angel and a Butterfly for her 75. And so my coral experiment was about to become fish food.

    A few days later, as I sat staring at my 240 full of live rock, I began imagining those small corals in the 240. I had been toying with the idea of trying a reef tank for a while. And so for the next few days I weighed the options: corals vs. my French, Emperor, Goldens, and Falcula. The Emperor and Falcula would be easy to trade in. The French and Goldens would not be. I spent many days in various LFS, reading, and on the internet (including right here at TR!) trying to get help with my decision. One morning I woke with my mind made up - I was going reef. Or as my wife said - I was going to "the dark side!" My LFS took the French, Emperor, and Falcula (they went into their 300 gallon FOWLR display). My wife took the Goldens. And I officially took a dive off the deep end ... again.

    Honey, I Need To Spend More Money

    Have I ever mentioned how cool my wife is? Well, she is. She knew that changing the 240 over to a reef tank was not going to be as simple as purchasing some corals. And so I made my list of all the things I would need to purchase and all the changes I would have to make to the tank to help ensure my success.

    #1 - Rearrange the live rock to make it more appropriate for coral placement. Easy. And free!

    #2 - More lights. Knowing that the tank was going to house soft and LPS corals, I decided to stick with the PC lighting I currently had, only increase the wattage. Also easy. But did cost some money.

    #3 - Increase water flow. I already had installed a closed loop system to help eliminate dead spots behind the live rock. I could not imagine drilling more holes in the tank. And so - I did something I said that I would never do - I added powerheads. Yep - (4) Seio 820's. Big, grey (why not black?) and ugly. But it was easy, as I simply hung them from each left and right side of the two overflows. Cool - no suction cups to worry about. And to be fair, I've gotten used to them. And those things really do move the water!

    #4 - Replumb the tank. Again. This time, I have both overflows going into the sump. From there, a pump moves about 600 gph over to the refugium. The refugium and sump are plumbed together with a piece of pvc. Now I can control the water flow going into the refugium separate from the sump. It only took 4 attempts, but I am finally satisfied with how the tank is plumbed.

    Now The Fun Begins!

    After the 240 was allowed to run fallow, I began adding corals. I added about 1 or 2 a week. I tried to stick with fairly easy and inexpensive ones. Zooanthids. A Torch and Hammer Coral. A Finger Leather. Candy Cane and Trumpet Corals. Xenia. And lots of Mushrooms.

    I also made a few mistakes. One was purchasing a Goniopra, trusting a LFS that it was easy. Yeah, right. It was very hard to watch it slowly start to fade. So I moved it from the main tank (too much water flow, too hard to spot feed with all the fish) into it's very own 10 gallon. Guess what? It's doing great! Loves it! Eats like a pig! And I owe it ALL to the podcast Rob did on Goniopora. A big thanks to Rob and his guest!

    Let There Be Fish

    I wanted to give the corals a chance to settle into their new home before adding any of the fish from quarantine. So I waited a few more weeks. Finally, I could hold out no longer. So in went the fish.

    There are a few things I like about Powder Blue Tangs. They are beautiful. And I love how they swim. There are a lot of things I don't like about Powder Blue Tangs. They are aggressive. Mine is very aggressive, just ask the Purple Tang I tried to introduce one week after putting in the Powder Blue. The other thing about Powder Blue Tangs - they are ich magnets. He was the first to get ich, and he got it the worst. And so he (or she) is the first fish I checked each morning for signs of ich. It has been 4 weeks, and all is well!

    Did You Hear The One About The Guy Who Set Up His Dream Tank In His Garage?

    So I am happy to report that all is doing well in my dream tank. There is no way I could have done it alone. My thanks go out to many of the LFS in my area who offered helpful, yet often conflicting advice. I thank the many book I have turned to again and again. My four favorite:

    The Conscientious Marine Aquarium by Robert Fenner

    Aquarium Corals by Eric Borneman

    Natural Reef Aquariums by John Tullock

    and my dream book -
    Ultimate Marine Aquariums by Michael Paletta

    I also need to thank a few web sites. Yes - RC. Also Wet Web Media. And, of course, Talking Reef. My Friday commutes to and from work have been made very enjoyable with each Thursday evening podcast download. And, of course, the TR forums are simply the best.

    So there you have it. Danamck and his tank lived happily ever after. Yeah, right! There is only one problem with having your dream tank in the garage. You guessed it - it's in the garage. Whenever my wife can't find me, she knows the first place to look. One night, as we sat watching the tank, my wife said something very scary:

    "You know, it's a shame this tank is in the garage"

    And I agree. Problem is - this tank is too large to fit anywhere in our house. But a 180 or 210 would fit perfectly in our Living Room. And I could keep the filtration equipment in the garage, so the tank would be very quiet. And I could upgrade to Metal Halide lighting, so I could try SPS.

    And so we arrive to today, as I am planning my next dream tank. I hope to document the entire process in this thread. That way, when my wife has me committed, you will all know why.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #31
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    What a great story and a beautiful tank.
    Carmie


    Only disasters happen fast!





    Carmie's 54 Corner Tank
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  7. #32
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Thanks Carmie. It was a lot of fun putting into text all the trials and tribulations I went through to get to this point. Now I am just truly enjoying purchasing different corals. Believe it or not, overall I find keeping corals to be easier than many of the fish I have kept. With fish, there are always concerns how they will interact with each other. With corals, it's mainly about finding the right spot in the tank for each coral, where it can receive the proper amount of light and water flow, and knowing it's needs. I'm taking the German approach to reef-keeping: stock a limited number of specimens and give them ample room and time to grow. I think it's also called the cheaper way of setting up a reef!

  8. #33
    Grand Master Reefer CarmieJo's Avatar
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    I'll look forward to seeing your reef develop.
    Carmie


    Only disasters happen fast!





    Carmie's 54 Corner Tank
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  9. #34
    Grand Master Reefer Reefbaby's Avatar
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    Wow Dana! I finally got around to reading your thread!

    GREAT JOB!!! And I love the commentary and the story behind it all.
    Thanks for putting so much effort into sharing all the mishaps and successes with us.
    Keep it coming!
    Christi

  10. #35
    Curious Reefer Rob321a's Avatar
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    This is going to be a fantastic tank, it already looks great!

  11. #36
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Thank you Carmie, Christi and Rob. I am really having a lot of fun switching from fish to reef. I do miss my big Angels and Butterflies, though. I've already planned out my entire future in fish and reef-keeping. First, convert to the 180 so I can enjoy the tank in the house. This will be my reef. Then get a second 180 for fish. Then when I retire, I'm building my fish room. It will have a 180 SPS, a 180 LPS/softies, and a 400 FOWLR. You're gonna think I'm stupid, but I've already starting planning this room! Seriously.

    I sure hope my wife doen't ever see this.

  12. #37
    Master Reefer Small Fry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danamck View Post
    Thank you Carmie, Christi and Rob. I am really having a lot of fun switching from fish to reef. I do miss my big Angels and Butterflies, though. I've already planned out my entire future in fish and reef-keeping. First, convert to the 180 so I can enjoy the tank in the house. This will be my reef. Then get a second 180 for fish. Then when I retire, I'm building my fish room. It will have a 180 SPS, a 180 LPS/softies, and a 400 FOWLR. You're gonna think I'm stupid, but I've already starting planning this room! Seriously.

    I sure hope my wife doen't ever see this.
    lol, talk to Fat Walrus, he may be able to give you some tips on that
    (building and convincing the significant other )
    Josh

    Small Frys 120

    Fish- 1 Percula Clown, Black fin Shrimp Goby

    Clown and Goby are just chilling in the NanoCube 12

    120 almost ready for re-cycle


  13. #38
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Thanks Josh - I will. When the time gets a little closer, I plan on starting a new thread and getting as much advice as I can on this room.

    My current plan with the 180 is to keep all the equipment in the garage, so this will be my first attempt at this. Since the refugium is going to be in the garage, I'm going to mount it above the main tank. This way, the refugium can feed into the main tank without having to go through a pump. I also plan on upgrading the lighting, so that if (when!) I decide to try SPS, I'm ready. What I learn here should help me when designing the room, as all 3 tanks will share a common sump, refugium, skimmer, etc.

    OK - back to reality now!

  14. #39
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    OK - here's the info on the 240:

    Tank
    240 Gallon Tru-Vu Acrylic (96” W x 24” D x 24” H)

    Filtration
    250 lbs of Tonga Live Rock
    250 lbs. of Live Sand
    Tru-Vu Sump w/ 100 Micron Filter Sleeve
    Redmond Reef Refugium w/ 20 lbs of Live Sand, Live Rock, Chaetomorpha & Misc Inverts

    Skimmers
    Euro-Reef CS-180
    Euro-Reef CS-6.1

    Additional Filtration
    25 watt Current UV Sterilizer
    Kent Marine PhosReactor w/ 250 grams of RowaPhos
    (1) bag of Chemi Pure
    Poly Filter

    Pumps
    (2) Iwaki WMD30RLXT (900 gph each)
    (4) Seio M820 (820 gph each)
    TOTAL WATER TURNOVER = 5080 GPH (21x)

    Lighting
    (2) 96 watt Dual Daylight (on for 10 hours)
    (4) 96 watt Dual Daylight (on for 8 hours)
    (2) 96 watt Dual Actinic (on for 8 hours)
    TOTAL WATTAGE = 768 watts (3.2 watts per gallon)

    Maintenance
    20% water change every 3 weeks (50 gallons)
    Change Filter Sleeve, Chemi Pure & Poly Filter every 2 weeks
    Change RowaPhos every 12 weeks
    Change bulbs that are on for 10 hours a day every 9 months
    Change bulbs that are on for 8 hours a day every 12 months

    Livestock - Fish
    Powder Blue Tang (my ich detector and boss of the tank)
    Potter’s Angel
    Flame Hawk
    Royal Gramma
    Solar Fairy Wrasse
    Six Line Wrasse
    (2) False Percula Clown Fish
    Yellow Tail Blue Damsel

    Livestock - Corals
    Elegance Coral (Catalaphyllia jardinei)
    Flower Pot Coral (Goniopora sp.) (currently in 10 quarantine and doing great)
    Torch Coral (Euphyllia glabrescens)
    Hammer Coral (Euphyllia ancora)
    Green Mushroom Leather (Sarcophyton sp.)
    Orange Finger Leather (Sinulari sp.)
    Candy Cane Coral (Caulastrea furcata)
    Trumpet Coral (Caulastrea curvata)
    Orange Pineapple Coral (Acanthastrea sp.)
    Maze Brain Coral (Platygyra sinensis)
    Xenia (Xenia sp.)
    Purple Mushroom Anemones (Actinoduscus sp.)
    Orange Mushroom Anemones (Actinoduscus sp.)
    Green Striped Mushroom Anemones (Actinoduscus striata)
    Colt Coral (Alcyonium sp.)
    Kenya Tree Coral (Capnella imbricata)
    Pink Zoanthids (Zoanthus sp.)
    Grey Blue Zoanthids (Zoanthus sp.)
    Electric Green Zoanthids (Zoanthus sp.)
    Yellow Polyps (Parazoanthus gracillis)
    Green Star Polyps (Pachyclavularia violacea)

    Livestock - Inverts
    Electric Flame Scallop
    Sand Sifting Star
    (2) Green Brittle Stars
    Feather Duster
    Blue Knuckle Hermit Crabs
    Scarlet Hermit Crabs
    Blue-Legged Hermit Crabs
    Misc Hermit Crabs
    Margarita Snails
    Astrea Snails
    Cerith Snails
    Nasarius Snails

    The plan is to hold off on any more purchases until the 180 is up and running and everything in the 240 is transfered over. The chance of me not making any more livestock purchases is directly related to how many times I visit my LFS in the area! In other words, not likely!

  15. #40
    Master Reefer Small Fry's Avatar
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    what are you planning on doing with the 240 gallon tank?? seeing that you are transferring the Live Stock to the 180??

    Make sure you keep us posted on ALL of your proggress
    Josh

    Small Frys 120

    Fish- 1 Percula Clown, Black fin Shrimp Goby

    Clown and Goby are just chilling in the NanoCube 12

    120 almost ready for re-cycle


  16. #41
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Josh -

    I'm planning on selling the 240 tank, stand and canopy to help pay for the 180. In a perfect world, I would keep the 240 and have my FOWLR tank for angels and butterflies. However, with the cost of electricity and water here in California, and the amount of time I spend on my tanks, this is not an option at this time. I'm also downsizing my wife's 75 to a 46. I'm taking down the 29 fresh at work. I'll still have a 46 and (2) 10 gallons for quarantine.

    The 180 will go in our living room, where my family and friends can truly enjoy it. I plan on using the same sump, refugium, skimmers, pumps, etc. from the 240 on the new 180, but will have all this equipment located in the garage. The garage just happens to be on the opposite wall where the tank is going, but there is a small closet I need to go through. My goal is to have as silent a tank as possible.

    My real goal is to set up a tank and have it be perfect the first time. My wife thinks I'm crazy, but with my previous experiences, and the sheer amount of planning I've been doing on this one tank, I think I can really pull it off.

  17. #42
    Master Reefer Small Fry's Avatar
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    when is the big downsizing gonna take place, are you going to enjoy your 240 for a bit or tear it down asap
    ??

    it sucks that it costs so much to run multiple tanks
    Josh

    Small Frys 120

    Fish- 1 Percula Clown, Black fin Shrimp Goby

    Clown and Goby are just chilling in the NanoCube 12

    120 almost ready for re-cycle


  18. #43
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    I plan on setting up the 180 sometime in October, if all goes well. It all depends how quickly I can get the stand and canopy made.

  19. #44
    Grand Master Reefer gwen_o_lyn's Avatar
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    Great thread- enjoyed reading it!
    Gwen - 2008 Atlanta Reef Club Board
    MACNA XX Committee
    125g RR AGA "The Simple Reef Tank"

  20. #45
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Thanks gwen_o_lyn. I enjoyed writing it.

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    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    OK - it's been a month and it's time for an update.

    Had I posted this last week, I would have stated that everything is perfect. All the corals and fish are doing great. The water parameters are absolutely spot on. And there's no brown algae, no hair algae, no cyano. Success at last!

    That was last week. This week I am sorry to report that my Powder Blue Tang (my ich detector) has once again come down with ich. Very disappointing. Thus far, he is the only fish to show signs of the dreaded disease, but I know that it's just a matter of time before they all have it. There's almost no chance of catching him without pulling the corals and most of the live rock (he is the most net smart fish I have ever owned - I can catch any other fish by feeding - they all eat out of my hand - and scooping them out with a net or glass pitcher).

    And so I have decided to speed up my plans on the 180. The idea being that I can transfer the live rock and corals to the 180, then easily move all the fish to my quarantine tank. This time I will let the 180 run without fish for 8 weeks (I tried 4 weeks last time, guess it wasn't long enough). The problem is I don't think I can get the cabinet made fast enough. We shall see.

    I also plan on contacting melev (Marc) at Reefcast. He makes a fish trap that he used to catch a hippo tang that was eating his corals. If you haven't seen the video, it's a riot. Here's a link:

    http://www.reefcast.com/videos/tuckertrapper2.mpg

    Anyway, I'm not discouraged. It's just another spped bump in the quest for reefkeeping nirvana.

  22. #47
    Grand Master Reefer Reefbaby's Avatar
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    Good luck catching your tang. Yes, I have seen that video...it's pretty funny. I love the "oohs" and "aahs" in the background!
    Christi

  23. #48
    Grand Master Reefer gwen_o_lyn's Avatar
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    Keep us posted on your tang. I hope it's ok.
    Gwen - 2008 Atlanta Reef Club Board
    MACNA XX Committee
    125g RR AGA "The Simple Reef Tank"

  24. #49
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    Thanks Christi and Gwen. I started adding garlic to the food when I saw the first signs of ich and I'll be damned if the tang is no longer showing signs of ich. Of course, I know how the life cycle of ich works, so I'm not getting my hopes up. But you never know - there may be something to this garlic myth after all!

  25. #50
    Master Reefer Danamck's Avatar
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    I realize that it's been a three weeks since my last update. So here goes -

    The Powder Blue Tang still has a bit of ich, but seems to be slowly getting rid of it. None of the other fish show any signs of it. I guess I'm very lucky. The garlic added to the food may be helping after all.

    The tank parameters are still perfect. All corals are doing extremely well. The Xenia is close to becoming a weed! My Candy Cane has about 10 new heads, and my Trumpet Coral has gone from 6 heads to 12. I can't believe how fast most of the corals are growing.

    Three new additions are a Pectinia Coral (Pectinia paeonia), a Pagoda Coral (Turbinaria pelata) and a HUGE Long Tenticle Fungia (Heliofungia actiniformis). All three are doing great. The Pagoda is a pig. I have never seen a coral eat as much or as aggresively as this guy does. The polyps grab any size food and won't let go. And the Fungia is amazing. It was around 5" in diameter and about an inch tall when I purchased him. Now that he has settled in, when fully expanded he is 10" in diameter and 4" tall.

    I am going to set aside a few hours to take photos in the next week or so. I want to document the tank before the big tear down.

    On that front - I have the 180 tank. I still have not decided on a stand and canopy, as I am waiting for a price from one other cabinet maker. So I'm now probably looking at an early December time frame to have the 180 up and running. While I'm going to love having the tank in the house as opposed to the garage, it's hard to mess with the 240 with everything going so well. I guess if I can do it once, I can do it again ...

    I'll post photos soon.

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