Training fish to eat from a clip??

[fishcounter]

How do you get your tang to realize that the stuff (Nori in my case) hanging from the clip is actually food? My hippo tang doesn't know its even there. What can I do? She needs to get some greens in her.

[wwest]

train her to go after colors, if you feed with a cup now then they see the color of the cup and get all excited. so if you use the same color clip she might get the idea. however if you dont feed with a cup then you might be able to start putting hers in a cup for a few weeks and she might get it then if that doesnt work then maybe stick the clip closes to where she likes to be and she might get the hint. i have trained mine to like colors for the fact that my cup is dark blue and my net is dark blue. when i did a tank change they didnt have any problems with the net..

[Rob]

actually, they should be able to find the "food" quickly.
if you are feeding every day, give them a few (2-3) days no food..
then, take a small piece of nori, and hold it in that tank as if you were feeding normal flakes or something.. this movement should get there attention and get the fish to come up to find the nori. let it eat a bit, then move the nori to the clip, then move the clip to the glass.. if the fish wants it , it will go for it..

now that said, there are a few types of of commercial seaweed sheets available.
most commonly are the seaweed selects, some are reddish, adn others are greenish, most tangs wont touch the reddish stuff, so make sure you are using the right type of seaweed

[V]

yeah & make sure u buy a bamboo placemat so u can roll your own sushi..lol

[Amphibious]

Just hang the clip with nori attached and walk away. Give them some peace to eat. Don't you just hate it when a bothersome waiter keeps coming to your table to ogle your date? Leave them alone with the nori they will find it. So what if it takes a day or two?

[fat walrus]

How do you get your tang to realize that the stuff (Nori in my case) hanging from the clip is actually food? My hippo tang doesn't know its even there. What can I do? She needs to get some greens in her.

no training required. they know it's there, just not sure if it is food. keep your fish a little hungrey......and they will have a lot more incentive to find out.

[wildeone]

I hear that Tangs should be fed twice a day, but I have been feeding mine once a day. My Blue will not go to the clip if I am near the tank. My yellow will eat the romaine or seaweed right out of my hand.

Is once a day enough? Sorry to hijack the thread fishcounter....

[Rob]

i feed my every day, or every other day, depending on what i feel..
may tangs have been plump and healthy for over a year now

[Amphibious]

This is kind of a, "he said, she said", thing. How many times a day do you eat? Generally, three meals a day with snacks in between. So what's best for your fish??? It doesn't matter if they are tangs, angels, damsels, clowns, gobies or whatever. The fact is, in the ocean fish are opportunistic grazers. They eat when ever food is available. They will eat until full and then eat some more if the opportunity presents it's self a bit later.

What's the best habit to get into when keeping fish in captivity? We will find differences among our peers but I say, feed more often than less often. Feed a variety of things because no one food offers everything nutritious they need. Each species requirements are a little different. It just makes sense, doesn't it? Don't we want our fish to be as healthy as possible? You'd better answer that one affirmatively or get out of the hobby. So, once a day, twice a day, three times a day??? Yes!!! Feed them often. They will reward you with good health and charming personalities as they anticipate your face coming with goodies in hand.

Now, to dispel a couple of common misunderstandings.

First misunderstanding: But I'm afraid I'll "OVER FEED MY FISH". It is impossible to over feed your fish!!! When they are full, THEY WILL STOP EATING. It is however, easy to over feed your tank by continuing to dump food into the tank after the fish stop eating. Do you see the difference??? When the fish stop eating, stop putting food in. That's easy isn't it???

Second misunderstanding: I love this one! If I feed my fish until they are full everyday they poop more and that causes my Nitrates to rise, hair algae blooms, cyano break outs and my skimmer needs changing more often. I have more maintenance to do and I don't like it when that happens. (Among other complaints I've heard over the years.) This is easy to fix. Get out of the hobby!!! Rather than keep your fish, corals, inverts, whatever, hungry and in "at risk" for disease to kill them, get out of the hobby and take up watching paint dry.

We as hobbyists have an obligation to provide the best of care possible to our captive critters, period!!!

I have several kinds of frozen food thawed in the fridge ready to feed at various times of the day and evening. You should be doing the same or even better. We owe it to them!!!

Does this answer your Question? Will this raise the discussion level to a high pitch? We all have our habits based on our training and beliefs. This is mine.

dick

[wildeone]

Does this answer your Question? Will this raise the discussion level to a high pitch? We all have our habits based on our training and beliefs. This is mine.

Yes it answers a couple of my questions and I agree with you to some extent. I guess I never thought to feed my fish until they stopped. I have always been told "fish are dumb" and will eat till they explode. But if that were the case there would be few fish in the oceans.

I have been feeding a mixture every other day, maybe it would be better to feed one thing in the morning (flake), some cyclo and mysis at night. Put some fresh hatched brine once a week and mix it up a little. Maybw Nori in the Am and some seaweed select and fresh romaine at night.

[Amphibious]

I guess I never thought to feed my fish until they stopped.

I wasn't suggesting you do that. Just till their tummies look plump. Then over time their back and shoulder area should look full and strong. The signs of healthy fish.

I have always been told "fish are dumb" and will eat till they explode.

The people telling you that are ignorant!

I have been feeding a mixture every other day, maybe it would be better to feed one thing in the morning (flake), some cyclo and mysis at night. Put some fresh hatched brine once a week and mix it up a little.

Not only would this give them a balanced diet but, would spread their feeding habits to a more realistic routine. A much more natural approach, I think, wouldn't you agree?

Maybe Nori in the Am and some seaweed select and fresh romaine at night.

Please, skip the Romain. Romain and any other terrestrial plant has no place in the marine environment. I know it's done on a wide basis and if the offending aquarist is feeding a variety of other things it seems the fish are benefiting from the Romain. Trust me, they are benefiting from the varied diet, not the Romain. Nori is sufficient to take care of their vegetative dietary needs. Save the Romain for your dinner and you'll get your veggies, too.

Think about this - Fish and man are not that different. In fact scientists say that man crawled out of the sea millions of years ago. Before anyone says it, I know not in our present form but metaphorically speaking. What if you were captured, had a caretaker, and were dependent on the caretaker to provide all your needs. Now, that caretaker has many choices as to how you will be taken care of. He decides to house you in a closet and feed you every other day. How would you do with that arrangement? I wouldn't do well at all!!! Wouldn't we wish for a different caretaker?

Dick

[Amphibious]

I had to go searching for these pictures to prove my point about Romain lettuce. The first picture is a Purple Tang the day I bought it. The picture was taken in the LFS. My reason for doing this was because I wanted a PT and was going to prove to the LFS owner, a friend of mine, that feeding a diet that consisted of mostly Romain lettuce was causing the lateral line disease and tissue loss around the eyes. He told me I didn't know what I was talking about. He got in 6 PTs that shipment one week earlier. I saw them, they came in fine and beautiful. I try not to buy fish that have just come in. I want them to settle in and get some much deserved rest and start eating. I watched these PTs begin to deteriorate right from the start. Why? He immediately hung Romain lettuce in the tanks. Oh yes, they picked at it but you can see what was happening.

I had the privilege of doing things around the store, like feeding fish that I wanted to purchase. So, I feed the PTs about every third day when I was there. They were all eating, literally begging for food. The Romain lettuce hung limply from the clips only occasionally being picked at. My friend was starving these precious (expensive) PTs. He was asking $79 for them. I made him a bet. I would "SAVE" one for $50 and have him looking in excellent health in short order. He didn't believe me but $50 was better than watching them die because no one was going to buy them in this condition. He took me up on the bet.

This is the one I bought.



He doesn't look too good does he? But he's salvageable at this point. Remember, I've been "doing" this hobby for 59 years. The next picture is five month's later. I tried to find the pic of him just three weeks later but it's on my old computer. In three weeks his color was back and the signs of disease were gone completely



This is what good diet and reasonable husbandry can do for your fish. This picture was taken in April, 2004. By this time the other 5 had waisted away and died. Even newbees know enough not to buy a fish showing such blatant signs of neglect. My friend? He began feeding Nori!!!

In June, 2005, I sold my entire setup to a knowledgeable fellow before moving to FL. I spoke to him at IMAC in Chicago this past April and the PT is still alive and the "KING" of his new home.

Now, you can make an informed decision as to the benefits of Romain. Don't use it just because you see your LFS using it and/or that's what they told you to feed. All of us tend to be complacent and instead of researching a topic we tend to take the advice of someone we don't know. Like right now. You guys don't really know me. Find a good book on keeping herbivorous marine fish in captivity and check this out. An old book will recommend Romain. It was thought (assumed) in the early days Romain would do the trick. I'm here to tell you the old book, ie, school of thought, is wrong. We know that now and so do you.

Dick

[Amphibious]

Another great marine based food for herbivorous fish is Gracilaria. A plant you can grow in your sump making it better than Nori which has been processed for the Sushi industry. I feed both.

[CarmieJo]

Dick, thanks for the great info on the romaine question.

[wildeone]

Great information. I will take you advice and put bleu cheese dressing on the rest of the Romaine an eat it for dinner. I actually did do some research on the eating habits of tangs, and as you said they mentioned Romaine. But also, my sources may not have been the best. I also thought since I was feeding seaweed select and Nori, a little romaine wouldn't hurt.

I am interested in the Gracilaria. I thought there was another plant as well that would be Ok for a fuge and tangs liked, but it slips my mind. I will have to try to pick some of the Gracilaria up somewhere.

Amp, would you be so kind as to suggest a few other foods based on my inhabitants other than what I am feeding now?

Percula Clowns
Yellow Tang
Blue Hippo Tang
Blue Damsel
Serpent Star
BTA

Feeding:
Nori
Seaweed
Cyclo-peeze
Fresh Brine Hatch
Mysis Shrimp
Formula One
Silversides
Adding Selcon to most of it...

[fat walrus]

Amphibious, great posts. and from my experience, i would have to agree with you. one thing i would like to add is that some lfs uses romaine for another reason. at my lfs, the owner feeds a huge variety and as many times as he can. i've seen him feed right after an employee had just done so. he does hang romaine in each of his tanks. he says he does it only one reason: he's in and out of his shop a lot, and when returns he always looks at the lettuce to figure out if his employees are feeding the fish properly. he say he is the happiest if the lettuce is untouched, and the maddest if all the lettuce has been eaten. he says that a well nourished fish will rarely touch lettuce...(is that true, Amp?). whenever a customer ask for a lettuce-clip, he reminds them that it is a seaweed clip. he had NO LETTUCE stickers put on all the clips for sale, but has stopped because customers accused him of being a hypocrite. sometimes we are ignorant because we don't take the time to listen.

[Amphibious]

Carmie, You're welcome. This is a tough myth to dis-spell because IF the hobbyist is feeding a good varied diet and Romain the fish will be healthy in spite of the Romain.

wildeone, Pass the bleu cheese dressing please.

I am interested in the Gracilaria. I thought there was another plant as well that would be OK for a fuge and tangs liked, but it slips my mind. I will have to try to pick some of the Gracilaria up somewhere.

There are several other that Tangs will eat but forgot the names of them at the moment, too. In general, if the plant grows in a marine environment and herbivorous fish eat it, it's probably good for them. You may have to have some gracilaria shipped in. Not many LFS stores carry it because of the Romain debacle.

Amp, would you be so kind as to suggest a few other foods based on my inhabitants other than what I am feeding now?

I reviewed your feeding regimen posted above and quite frankly there's not much to add to that other than gracilaria. If we could remember some of the other marine based plants Tangs will eat they could be added as variety. Someone will chime in here and help us out.

fat walrus, Thank you. That is very interesting about your LFS using Romain as an indicator of employees feeding the fish. One of my harshest criticism of LFSs is they do not feed their fish properly. I hit four LFSs on Saturday and not one had properly fed fish. If you don't know how to tell pay attention everyone, you know I'm going to teach you..... When you are browzing your LFS for fish it's very simple to tell if they feed their fish properly. Look at the belly of the fish. It doesn't have to be bulging but is it full? Or, is it pinched? Or worse yet, is that area concave? If it's not filled out and pinched or concave they are not feeding properly. Be very careful buying a fish from that store! You should ALWAYS ask to see the fish eat before you buy!!! The fish you are about to buy should eat vigorously. Some finicky, picky eaters, like Anthias, may not show a great deal of enthusiasm toward the food offered. That's most likely because they don't recognize it as being food. (Kind of like Tangs when first offered Romain.) Any fish that doesn't eat at the LFS may be a challange to get to eat at home. Just be aware of that fact. If, in addition to not eating, it shows any of the signs of starvation mentioned above let the LFS watch it die!!! And, if the LFS won't feed the fish for you for any reason, walk out of their and never return!!!

Marine fish have a fault and it is responcible for many unsuspecting hobbyist's failure. That fault is looking beautiful right up to the point of death.

Hmmm, sometimes my posts run very long, like a lecture. But I'm passionate about helping people to overcome as many pitfalls in this obsession of ours as possible. I don't appoligize but, want everyone to know I've been there, I've made all the mistakes, I've learned all this the hard way. I went through "the learning years" with out the Internet, without all the great books available today. You, the fledgling marine hobbyist and you with some successes and even those accomplished reef keepers don't know how lucky you are to have so much good information available to you. Simply take what Rob has done for us as an example. Thank you Rob!

Amp steps down from his soapbox, wipes a tear from his misty eyes and asks, "Hey veriann, pop the top off one of them iced tinnies for me will ya"?

[V]

nice speech *passes u a cold one* i never get sick of the wisdom rattling around in that head of yours my friend!

pinched tummies also indicate they have not quaratined the new stock before appyling a price tag!
also that tang sure loves his time in your care> 100% better

[Amphibious]

Opens cold one, phht shhheee, slurps the cold froth through the teeth, over the tongue, look out stomach here it comes. Ahhhhh, now that's refreshing. Thanks veriann. Somewhere in the background he hears - it's

i never get sick of the wisdom rattling around in that head of yours my friend!

That tells me there's room for more wisdom.