pump for protein skimmer

**Reefer0513** · 06-07-2010, 04:45 PM

This is going to sound like a stupid question. I went to my local saltwater aquarium store and explained to one of the guys at the store about my problem with high nitrates even after a 30 percent water change. Now I trust and have the utter most respect for this individual. Mainly because he and his store have been very good to me in answering questions and even has come to my house to help me with problems that I have had in the past. I consider this person I real asset when it comes to problems I have. Now here comes the but I was in there today and after explaining my nitrate problem and answering his following questions. He came to the conclusion that my protein skimmer is not able to keep up with the amount of water I have following through my sump. So, asked him if I put a bigger water pump on my protein skimmer if that would help it keep up. His response was no and then he tried to sell me a bigger skimmer that was about 650 dollars. My question is can I put a higher rated pump on my protein skimmer so it keeps up with my amount of water that I have. Right now with all my the tanks I have setup I turn over about four gallons of water through my sump. I have a euro reef skimmer, which he said was equivalent to a G3 skimmer made by the same company. As of right now the euro reef has a 500 gph rated water pump and I would like to up it to say 900 to 1000 gph would this cause an issue with producing skimmate? Or do I need to get a bigger skimmer?

**CarmieJo** · 06-07-2010, 08:18 PM

He's right, skimmers are rated for certain sizes of pumps. You could put a bigger pump on it but that would probably reduce efficiency. You might be able to replace the pump with a needle-wheel style pump and get a little more out of it. But, a bigger skimmer may not reduce nitrates. Skimmers remove dissolved organics from the water and if your skimmer is already properly sized for your tank then a bigger one won't necessarily be better.

**Reefer0513** · 06-07-2010, 08:41 PM

I not sure what euro reef skimmer I have, but the pump on it is rated for 500 gph and the volume of water flowing through my sump is close to 300 gallons. The guy at the store told me that after seeing my setup and skimmer that he felt like it was under rated for the volume of water that I was running through my sump. He also said that my euro reef skimmer was the equivalent of a G-3, but I told him that after doing a massive water change in my tank at least once a week that my nitrates would creep back up to 50 ppm within a few days. He told me the same thing you did and that was to remove or clean all sponges in my system. So I took out the sponges in my overflows and cleaned the aqua lifter pump filter sponges. I hoping this helps. I also disconnected one of my 20 gallon and 55 gallon tank from the system. That is why I changed my water volume from in this thread to 300 gallons down from 400 gallons. I plan on doing another massive water change at the end of the week hoping that the reduction in water volume and massive water change will solve the problem. Any advice that you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

**CarmieJo** · 06-07-2010, 08:59 PM

Skimmers are not rated for the flow through your sump but for the volume of water in your tank. How much LR do you have? How deep is the sand bed? Eliminating the sponges will help reduce nitrates because they are a great habitat for nitrifing bacteria.

**Reefer0513** · 06-07-2010, 09:16 PM

I only have LR in my display tank which 125 gallons. It has about 80 lbs of LR in it and a sand bed that is about six inches deep. In my refugium located in my sump I have a sand bed of six inches also. I only got rid of the sponges in the overflow boxes not the ones in the aqua lifter pump filter boxes. I just cleaned them out and put them back in so they can continue to filter out stuff so my aqua lifter pump does not get clogged. So, should I buy a bigger skimmer or just wait and see what happens after the next big water change at the end of the week?

**Reefer0513** · 06-09-2010, 04:15 PM

Due to my high nitrate problem I decided to build a skimmer of my own. I hoping with two skimmers running in my sump will help with the nitrate problem. The skimmer I am building is a recirculating skimmer. I found the plans on the INTERNET and the a video of the skimmer in action. I am going to do a 50 percent water change before I install the skimmer and hopefully it will help keep my nitrates down below 20 ppm or as close to 0 as possible. I will let you know how it goes. I was wondering as skimmers go is putting water flow through a skimmer better fast or slow. I have heard two different schools of thought on the subject. One school of thought says you want the bubbles in your skimmer to expand as much and to rise slowly through the skimmer on its way to the collection cup. The other school of thought says that you should push as fast a possible as much bubbles through the water column of the skimmer that you can on the way to the collection cup. So, as usual I am confused as all get out. As always CarmieJo your expertise on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

**CarmieJo** · 06-09-2010, 06:17 PM

What will help a lot is to add rock! You need 1-1.5 lbs per gallon.

For the skimmer, IMO, you want really tiny bubbles so you have the maximum surface area for dissolved organics to adhere to.

**Reefer0513** · 06-09-2010, 10:01 PM

What is your view on having live rock in a sump with a DSB? The guy at the store where I buy my livestock from tells me that you do not want any live rock in your sump just a DSB.

**CarmieJo** · 06-10-2010, 03:59 AM

I have fist size chunks of LR in my sump. Because I use a converted wet/dry for a sump I can't have a DSB there but I would if I could make it fit. I also have an area for macro in my sump.

**Amphibious** · 06-10-2010, 04:52 AM

The biggest most bad butt skimmer in the world will not help you lower your nitrates. That’s not what they take out. Neither will water changes alone help lower your Nitrates. As an example, if you have 50 ppm Nitrates and you do a 20% water change, that lowers your Nitrate level to 40 ppm BUT did nothing to change the SOURCE of the Nitrate SO it quickly goes back up. You have to find the SOURCE of the Nitrate being produced.

Where does Nitrate come from? Nitrate can be found in your water supply. That’s just one reason to use a RO/DI unit. The main source however, is an incomplete biological cycle. In the simplest explanation, there are four elements to the cycle in this order, Ammonia, converts to Nitrite, converts to Nitrate, converts to Nitrogen gas which, when released to the atmosphere, completes the cycle only to be repeated again and again. It’s a never ending cycle. High Nitrates in a system is a signal that your "cycle filtration system” is incomplete. The Nitrate is being held onto instead of being converted to Nitrogen gas. Consequently, it builds until it is a problem. No amount of skimming or water changes will help. Even a 100% water change will be useless in short order because you haven’t corrected the SOURCE of the Nitrate.

DSBs are supposed to eliminate Nitrate and for the most part they do. However as DSBs age they require a cleaning of sorts. Maintenance of a DSB is controversial, some enthusiasts say never disturb a DSB, while others say you must do periodic cleaning of a DSB. Either way a DSB over time can/will become less effective at eliminating Nitrate. PERSONALLY, I clean my DSB by deep vacuuming the areas I can reach using a syphoning device that has a 1 1/2” large end attached to a 1/2” syphon tube. The suctioning must be done carefully so as not to suck out the sand. Doing this in conjunction with water changes is the best way, IMHO.

What happens with an aging DSB? A DSB will clog with something called MULM or decaying food and poop. I recently experienced my DSB becoming so ineffective my Nitrates hit 160 ppm. Blew my mind away BUT was a reminder and a WAKEUP call about how lax I’d become to the maintenance of my DSB and regular water changes. Once it became this BAD, no amount of maintenance was going to correct the problem quickly. So, I added a sulfur denitrater to my system. It has proven itself to be the answer to my problem. Quite frankly, I don’t have the time to do a deep cleaning of my now ailing DSB. The sulphur denitrater has been running for 2 months and my Nitrates are ZERO - 0 ppm. It went to 0 ppm in about three weeks and remains there. One of these nifty gadgets will be standard on all my systems going forward.

Dick

If anyone is interested in more info on the sulphur denitrater please PM me.

**Reefer0513** · 06-12-2010, 12:13 PM

What you said about mature DSB makes sense. In my display tank which is 125 I have a 6 inch mature DSB that has been up and running for about 4 years. On the glass below the sand bed I can see purple and green colored stuff. My question is should I disturb the sand bed right before a big water change to rid myself of the nitrates that are accumulating in the DSB? Would a sand bed cleaning crew such as a fighting conch or nassiurus snails to keep the my DSB clean or is this a waste of money?