Help with Return pump.

[rockstarnsc83]

I am setting up a new tank. Ive got a 50 gallon acrylic tank 36 x 15 x 20. I will have a CPR hang on overflow. Model Cs50 that is rated at 300 gph. Water will come down the overflow drain pipe into the Cpr Aquafuge pro sump/refugium. Its 17 gallons, size is 30x12x 14. The refugium area is 19x 12. The powerhead for the skimmer is 266 gph with 0 head before the venturi modification. Im going to need a return pump of course to get the water back to my tank but I need to hook it up to the chiller that will sit beside the refugium. What is the best gph pump to use for my setup? Any help would be appreciated.

[CarmieJo]

You will need something of <300 GPH at head. The skimmer should not factor in unless you are trying to run it from the return pump. The chiller will decrease the flow from the pump. I think in order to determine how much you will need to know how long the tubes are and how many bends the water will have to make.

[rockstarnsc83]

I can get a rough measurement and such right now of how it will be ... The water will come out the overflow and come straight down about 38/39 inches tops. the first chamber is the skimmer chamber..then the refugium chamber...and then then the return chamber..the return pump will be here of course. the pipe will then come straight up from the pump about 5 to 10 inches and then it will have to go right about 8 inches into the chiller input.

I also have a spare pump, its a Rio 6HF Hyper flow
* 350 gph @ 1 ft.
* Max Head: 6 ft.

[CarmieJo]

The water coming down from the overflow will equal the volume of the return pump at head. If your return pumps more than the 300 GPH of the overflow you will pump the sump dry. Most pumps will have something like this http://www.aqua-medic.com/products/docs/OR_Pumps.pdf to show flow at various head.

[rockstarnsc83]

the pump is rated for 350 gph..im not saying im using that one..just asking if i can..i found it in my drawer. it does have to go through the chiller and then up about 31 inches.

And I can add a ball valve in the return line as well for whatever pump is used.

[CarmieJo]

I would think you would loose at least 50 GPH with 31" head and the chiller. It would be pretty easy to test, by running it and making sure the sump level does not drop.

[rockstarnsc83]

so itll most likely work out well then, in your opinion? and should I install the valve? could reduce flow some if I had too with that.

[CarmieJo]

My guess it that it would work out fine. Having a valve to be able to dump some of the water back into the sump would be a good safety net. I don't think you want to use a valve to restrict the flow though.

[rockstarnsc83]

how would that be set up?

[CarmieJo]

Plumbing is not my strong suite but I think what you would want to use is a valve and dump tube. The valve would divert water either into the sump via a dump tube or send it to the display.

[V]

Guys, when working this out you need to determine what total turn over your aiming for to begin with.
Use the above value & throw into a calculator the below.
Factor in pipe widths & lengths, followed by how many angles for restrictions
Then factor in overflow point in the DT for an average of volume needed to complete the water circuit. (which is your loss in the sump before the circuit replenishes)

That will be your answer on everything in one hit.

im assuming your also refering to a plumb back.

T piece in your return line with a value after it to control output flow

[rockstarnsc83]

sorry, im just lost . lol.

[rockstarnsc83]

Aquacave.com said "HF6 will not be strong enough for this setup. I would recommend HF10." Rio Hf6 is 350gph, Max Head: 6 ft. and the Hf10 is 660 Gph ,7.5' Max Height

[rockstarnsc83]

I have a better understanding now...so I have a quick question before I post some more information. Does the submersible return pump need to be all the way to the bottom of the return pump area?

If so the way its going to go is its the water from the tank is going to go into the 300 gph overflow box, run down into the sump with skimmer...go into the refugium and then into the return chamber. Assuming the pump sits at the very bottom in this chamber and is about 2 inches tall , the return line will have to go straigh up 14 inches. then it will have to make a left turn to the chiller input which is about 2 inches..def no more than 3 inches. then on the output of the chiller, a line just has to go straight up back into the tank and that is 33 inches.

If this is correct then thats 49/50 inches of head which is right over 4 feet of head. correct?

So im looking at the mag pumps
http://www.saltycritter.com/pumps/mag-drive.htm

A mag drive 5's max gph is 500 but at 4 feet of head it 310 gph.

So with all of this said...does this sound like the right choice for me?

That is a 45 watt pump, The rio hf 10 is half the price of the mag drive 5 and its 35 watts. max gph is 660 and at 4 foot of head it puts out 360 gph.

The rio aqua 1700 is 23 watts and max gph is 642 and at 4 foot of head it puts out 352gph. its about the same price as the rio hf 10.

[AZDesertRat]

Your chiller will have a flow rating you need to pay attention to.
i am not a fan of Mag pumps personally, I have had major issues with them with heat gain, noise and energy efficiency. I much prefer either Ocean Runner or Eheim, both based on personal experience, I own 4 OR pumps today. I tested many pumps side by side using a Kill A Watt meter, 10 psi pressure gauge, valves, 1" water flow meter and containers to hold the water. Many brands were way off in both their power consumption which was usually much higher than advertised and many would not pump the head or height they claimed. OR and Eheim fared the best with OR having a very slight advantage. Rio Hyperflow, Quiet One, Via Aqua were the worst I tested and Mag was in the middle but ran hotter and louder than any other in the testing. I have since sold all 4 Mags I owned, a 2, 5, 7 and 9.5 are all gone now and the two Quiet Ones literally caught on fire and went in the trash. The Rio Hyperflow has a swelled impeller magnet and wil not turn even though it was a new pump for backup only and the Via Aqua has the same.

[rockstarnsc83]

I will look up some Ocean runner and eheim pumps to see what I find.

[rockstarnsc83]

Ocean Runner
OR 2500
max gph is 630 gph and 38 watts. I dont see anything about gph at 4 foot of head.

The eheim 1260 is 635 gph and 65 watts and look a bit more expensive.

As far as my chiller..for a year now its been hooked up to a Fluval FX5 canister filter which is Performance rated to pump over 900 US gallons per hour.

[AZDesertRat]

Check what the chiller mfg. recommends for flow. they should have aminimum and maximum flow range for best heat transfer.
Go to the aqua-medic website, they have a graph for the OR pumps that shows the GPH at various heads, actually its in liters and meters but you can convert it easily.

[rockstarnsc83]

"This chiller is recommended for tanks up to 125 gallons in size. A pump with a flow rate of 475-800 GPH is recommended for use with this chiller."

[AZDesertRat]

Then you want to be somewhere in that range.

[rockstarnsc83]

Yeah, I was already going to be in that range. =)

[V]

looks like your in good hands with the wildcat

[rockstarnsc83]

Think I got it figured out..just going to have to narrow it down to what pump.

[rockstarnsc83]

The cpr overflow I was going to use was on my 29 gallon biocube and a 10 gallon tank. its rated for 300gph. my new tank is 50 gallons with a 17 gallon sump/refugium. I was reading that for fish tanks with reefs should have a turnover of 10 to 20 x so is it fine to continue using the 300gph overflow, or should I upgrade to the next step up cpr overflow..which is 600 gph ?

[V]

just out of pure interest, where were you reading this?

given those values, that 6X, if you double it, that will make 12x static values. so it depends on what your keeping, softies yeah, something stiffer than scotch, then up it.
although does this effect everything you just worked out cause i kinda switched off there for a sec.