Taking the Plunge. How's this sound?

[Noobeef]

OK. First, a little about myself. I have had many very successful freshwater fish tanks. I had one that was so established it no longer needed a filter and I only had to do water changes every 5 months. I have tried a couple salt tanks (one a joint venture with my brother) and they both had some mixed success. After reading some forums and doing some of the podcasts, it appears one of our biggest blunders was not using live sand or live rock and trying to get it going from “dry” scratch. We also used backpack filters with filter bags and active carbon as the only mode of filtration.

From reading posts and listening to the serious hobbyists, this is what I have, and what I’m planning on going with. Let me know what you think.

What I have:

I have a standard 29 gallon tank. Plain old 2’6” X 1’ tank. (Would like to get bigger, but apartment complex only allows 30 gal or less)

100 watt heater

My plans:

20 pounds live sand + 10 pounds regular sand

25 pounds live fiji rock from LFS (it will be fully cured)

Instant Ocean in 25 gallons of RO water

A backpack filter for a 30 gallon tank filled with a combination of live rock pieces and Seachem Matrix Biofilter Media I have thought about getting a backpack filter for a 60 gallon tank and filling it with the above mentioned things to make the secondary area bigger.

API Saltwater test kit

Now, that’s my tank and filtration plans. Please let me know what you think about this as an initial setup to get the cycle rolling. I have also heard some people SWEAR by protein skimmers and other people say they hurt filtration because they remove some cool bacteria. I also will get a powerhead eventually, but without any coral I am hoping to wait on that expense (with all the other stuff I'm getting up front).

Even though we don’t plan on rushing anything into the tank, EVENTUALLY we want to have 1 percula, 1 bicolor pseudochromin, 1 cleaner shrimp, a couple small hermit crabs and either a flame hawk or a dwarf angel of some sort (this will be the last fish we add). I feel this is a pretty low bioload for the tank size (3 small fish, a couple crabs and a shrimp). Are these fish all compatible with a reef tank?

Where I really need help is lighting because for some reason, I can’t understand what people are talking about as it pertains to reef lighting and what I need. I know I’m supposed to have around 3-5 watts per gallon for a reef tank, but there are all these different types of light and stuff that no matter how many times I read it, it doesn’t make sense. I know information similar to this has been posted, but since every setup is different, I'm curious as to what people think about my proposed start.

And one last question. I live in Orange County CA. This is going to sound either smart or completely insane. Is it advisable to pull a little water from the ocean and put it in my tank to get some good bacteria in there? Like I said, that could sound completely logical or insane. I'm interested to see which.

Thank you in advance.

[Reefbaby]

Hi Noobeef! Welcome to TR!

Okay....sounds like you're doing your research! Good for you! Have you, by any chance, used this tank for a freshwater system or have you ever dosed copper-based medication in it? If so, you might want to consider trying to get that stuff out of the silicon in the tank. The copper is pretty toxic for most invertebrates.

Filtration - I, and most of those here at TR, are proponents of protein skimming. A skimmer is mostly removing dissolved organic compounds. Bacteria are typically not affected by this. Some people worry about plankton getting ripped to shreds in pumps (which are part of the skimmer compilation); however, they usually do not decimate an entire population. In terms of bacteria, if you are going with live rock and sand, you will have so much bacteria within these substrates - so NO WORRIES!!!! I actually had a huge bacterial bloom in my tank recently and my skimmer actually stopped producing!!! I was almost wishing it would get some of the bacteria out of the tank!

Are you planning on having corals at some point?? If so, I would seriously recommend investing from the get-go in a skimmer!

Your fish load and selection sounds okay for the tank. You're not going with large fish or tangs that need lots of space to swim about.

Lights - again, so much of this depends on what you want to do with the tank...if you want to have corals, then your needs will be much different.

Ocean water - this is debatable. There are a lot of potential parasites in the ocean waters. You would NOT want to get these into your system. In addition, depending on where you collect the water from, there could be a lot of toxins present. People that DO collect water for their systems typically travel a ways out, where the currents are strong and the water is deep, in order to collect clean water. I would recommend starting out with manufactured salt mixes. It's much easier to know what you're working with. If bacteria are your main concern, starting out with live rock and sand would be your best, and safest, bet!

[Noobeef]

Cool. I am planning on adding coral at some point down the line (4-5 months at least). I don't plan on putting in anything ultra delicate until MUCH later. So for soft corals like some hearty shrooms, etc. what type of light is best?

The tank is new, so no copper in the sealant from ich meds.

[Reefbaby]

Personally, I LOVE T5 lighting. There are more and more tanks using these types of bulbs and are getting just as good of results as MH lighting. They are also more energy efficient.

If you have dough to spend, the Solaris LED lights are also pretty cool, and also very energy efficient. I find it difficult and confusing to talk about watts/gallon, because each tank and lighting system is soooo different.

If you're a handy person, you can even build your own lighting system with the different kits/components. Shrooms don't need a ton of lighting, but if you're wanting to go with corals down the road, then why not start off the appropriate lighting?

Check out some of these links, where there's hopefully a bit of information to get you going!

[Noobeef]

Thank you very much. The other question I have is for filtration. Like I said, right now I'm going to go with the backpack filter that came with the tank. I was thinking about getting a 60 gallon ready backpack filter instead thinking at that size it would almost be a mini sump. Or would it be worth my time to creat a 10 gallon sump under the tank in the stand?

[Reefbaby]

IMHO sumps are nice to have...you often can fit much more into them (such as a skimmer!); however, if you can't drill your tank, then maybe that's the best option for you. Do you have space for that kind of backpack filter?

[Noobeef]

I have space for a 60 gallon backpack filter, yes. Is it worth buying a 60 gallon backpack filter to use over the 30 gallon one the tank came with, or is the difference they would provide negligable?

[Reefbaby]

I'm going to PM our sumpzilla master (JustDavidP) and see what he has to say!

[rroselavy]

Originally Posted by Reefbaby

IMHO sumps are nice to have...you often can fit much more into them (such as a skimmer!); however, if you can't drill your tank, then maybe that's the best option for you. Do you have space for that kind of backpack filter?

I was just perusing a cool dealer site who sells overflow kits and diamond bits for drilling your tank. Even has some tutorials and instructions for drilling your own tank. The video of someone with a hand-held drill drillling a 1.5" bulkhead even gives me enough confidence to do it myself!

[rroselavy]

Welcome to TR Noobreef! Good to have another SoCal reefer on board. Make sure to go to that Marine Aquarium Expo in OC in April (in your neighborhood).

Originally Posted by Noobeef

I have a standard 29 gallon tank. Plain old 2’6” X 1’ tank. (Would like to get bigger, but apartment complex only allows 30 gal or less)

Hmm... Your problem with that 29g is not the volume so much as the dimensions. 12" from front to back will prove pretty tough to arrange LR and provide space for flow and maintenance. 30" long is OK, but you will have to hang your light fixture, or come up with a custom hood since most fixtures are 24" and 36" long. Not necessarily a deal breaker, but you could pick up another 20-30g tank of better dimensions for relatively cheap ($50). A 30g breeder tank (36lx16dx12h) may serve you better.

20 pounds live sand + 10 pounds regular sand

If you are not planing on a DSB (4+"), an inch or less for SSB is recommended to prevent your bed from being too much of a nutrient sink.

25 pounds live fiji rock from LFS (it will be fully cured)

This is a bit light on the LR, IMHO. I would recommend more like 30-40 pounds.

A backpack filter for a 30 gallon tank filled with a combination of live rock pieces and Seachem Matrix Biofilter Media I have thought about getting a backpack filter for a 60 gallon tank and filling it with the above mentioned things to make the secondary area bigger.

Like RB, I would recommend a sump in a stand. This will help reduce noise and clutter, provide space for a refugium, and you can add up to 20 more gallons to your system without having the apartment complex know that your tank is more than 30g.

To overcome nitrate accumulation over time (in about 1-1.5 years, many nanos have their nitrates climb to 30ppm and above), I recommend agressive water changes (25%/week) AND efficient protein skimming AND a refugium. Get a good protein skimmer, not a $30-$60 piece of junk. Protein skimming can allow you to feed less sparsely, allowing your fish and corals to thrive.

Now, that’s my tank and filtration plans. Please let me know what you think about this as an initial setup to get the cycle rolling.

Give you tank plenty of time to establish the cycle. Keep track of your parameters, and watch for a major diatom bloom. The diatom bloom is a welcomed sight as it usually means you cycle is nearly established.

Unlike some, I do not think you need a decaying shrimp or other booster in your tank to start the cycle (although it probably cannot hurt); there should be enough decaying stuff that you could not remove from your LR to launch the bacterial process.

I have also heard some people SWEAR by protein skimmers and other people say they hurt filtration because they remove some cool bacteria. I also will get a powerhead eventually, but without any coral I am hoping to wait on that expense (with all the other stuff I'm getting up front).

Cool bacteria. I like the sound of that...

Bacteria can multiply at an exponential rate. This thread by Eric Borneman, entitled "The Building of a Reef (tank)" illustrates how bacteria would handily consume the volume of your tank if there wasn't something to stop it. That "something" is a food source, or lack thereof. Our LR and sand provide enough substrate for an immense amount bacteria to live on/within. I wouldn't worry that a Skimmer was removing a small percentage. Your bacteria will grow back in leaps and bounds.

I would get good flow now, to help break up and keep the food and detritus suspended instead of getting trapped in your sandbed and LR. Two Koralia Nanos to provide opposing flow would be perfect.

There is strong argument to get corals first and then fish later. Corals can help you process the nutrients in your tank while deriving a good portion of their needs indirectly from light, while fish are messy and put greater demand on you to add nutrients to the tank. Either way, just go slooooow so the tank biology keeps up with you.

Even though we don’t plan on rushing anything into the tank, EVENTUALLY we want to have 1 percula, 1 bicolor pseudochromin, 1 cleaner shrimp, a couple small hermit crabs and either a flame hawk or a dwarf angel of some sort (this will be the last fish we add).

Hawkfish in general have been known to pick on snails, hermit crabs, ornamental shrimps, and small fishes. They can be pretty aggressive, so proceed with caution, especially in a small tank. If you do chose a flame hawk, add him last, and feed him well.

Where I really need help is lighting because for some reason, I can’t understand what people are talking about as it pertains to reef lighting and what I need. I know I’m supposed to have around 3-5 watts per gallon for a reef tank, but there are all these different types of light and stuff that no matter how many times I read it, it doesn’t make sense. I know information similar to this has been posted, but since every setup is different, I'm curious as to what people think about my proposed start.

I love this topic, even though I believe that flow is as important as light. I too heard 3-5 watts per gallon when I started out, and I (after only 2 years) now know better.

A