Wet/Dry filter

[jennyb]

Ok I am not exactly new at saltwater but man I have gotten a lot of wrong information. I feel like I have done nothin but put money down the drain!!! I have tried other forums but never got really good feed back so im trying this one. My nitrates for some reason are spiked in my tank and I have done water changes eliminated my lion fish and everything and the nitrates are still not going down. I read some of the forums about the wet/dry filter and im wondering if i should replace my bio balls with live rock and how this will help my tank? I just dont know what to do anymore? And I need to know how to go about doing this I feel like im starting all over again. I have a 60 gallon tank with about 60 to 80 pounds of live rock with a compact floresent light for now. I have a wet/dry filter for up to 125 gallons a skimmer a canister filter and some power heads how do i get these nitrates to balance all my other levels are zero. So any help will really really be appreciated thank you very much.
JennyB

[Phurst]

Hi JennyB, and welcome to TalkingReef. I think you'll find that this is the friendlies and most helpful forum around.

There are a couple of things that jump out at me immediately. Bio-balls in a wet/dry situation are well know nitrate factories if they are not cleaned every few days, and cleaned very, very well. the same goes for your canister filter.

While wet/dry filters are excellent at converting ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate, they are incapable of converting nitrate to nitrogen gas. the short explanation is, the bacteria that does this is anaerobic, and bio-balls and canister filters are highly oxygenated places. Anaerobic bacteria lives deep inside live rock, and in the lower levels of a deep sandbed if you have one.

IMO, you should remove the bio-balls. Since they are currently a significant part of your biological filtration, you should remove them gradually. A handful every couple of days should be fine. A lot of people advocate replacing bio-balls with live rock. I have a differing opinion here though. It really depends on the wet/dry filter. If the area where you will be adding the LR is above water, say, under a drip plate, where you find most bio-balls, then adding rubble will do pretty much the same thing the bio-balls did. LR should be completely submerged for best denitirification.

Continuing to use the canister is completely up to you. If you do continue to use it, you will have to clean it often and very thoroughly to avoid it being colonized with nitrifying bacteria. It would solely be mechanical filtration to trap detritus, run carbon or other media, etc.

Speaking of detritus, that's another thing to look out for. the breakdown of detritus generates nitrates. You should be trying to siphon out as much detritus as you can when you change the water, and not allowing it to build up in the wet/dry either.

Beyond these things, there are additional steps you can take, such as utilizing a DSB, either in the tank or remotely in a bucket, or setting up a sulfur denitrator. I'd see how it goes after dealing with the wet/dry and the canister, and a couple of good sized waterchanges.

Please keep us up to date.

[jennyb]

Wow you def know your s*** that helps me out big time because before i even had this wet/dry i just ran like a regular bio wheel filter and the skimmer with the canister i never had one problem with nitrates ever untill i hooked up the wet dry. So with the sand bed what does that do for the tank and where would i put it because would i be able to put that in the sump? I dont really know how to go about setting this up and i have a hard time understanding some things so i mean it really has to be broken down for me. Umm yea the bioballs are no sumerged in water its the drip system and are you able to add sand to your aquarium after its been running or would that cause the tank to recycle? Also when cleaning my tank should i be suctioning down deep in the crushed coral? Thank you very much for the help

[Phurst]

If you have crushed coral, and are going to keep it, then yes, you should be agressively cleaning it when you do waterchanges. You need to get as much gunk out of there as you can.

There are several options for a DSB. You can certainly add one to your tank if you wish. This would be the most difficult, but by far the most helpful. it will be a real PITA because you will have to remove as much of the crushed coral as you can before adding the sand. But, because the crushed coral is currently colonized by bacteria, like the bio-balls, you can't just take it all out at once, especially if you're removing the bio-balls as well.
I'd tackle one, then the other, not at the same time. Say you take a month to remove the bio-balls, then another month to remove the CC. Once you have removed as much of the CC as you can get, you can go ahead and add the DSB to the display. because you will not be adding it to an existing sandbed, there shouldn't be a problem adding it all at once. It'll make a mess, and your water will be cloudy for a while, but it will be OK. For an effective DSB, you'll need between 4"-6" of sand. The catch with a DSb is, it takes a while to become active. On the order of several months. If adding one to the display tank is too much hassle, you can use what's called a remote DSB, which is basicaly a 5 gallon bucket about 2/3 of the way full with sand, and only a couple hundred GPH flowing across it. If that's the route you'd rather go, i can get Bobby over here to explain how he has set his up. Same deal though, it will take a while to start reducing nitrates.

Feel free to hit us with any questions you have, or if anything is unclear. We're here to help as best we can

[jennyb]

Ok so now what does the sand do? Also I was told not to go deep into the CC because of the good bacteria but obviously that was wrong and I didn't think it was right because there is a whole lot of crap in the CC. What would you say to do first the crushed coral or the bioballs? If I do the wet dry filter first do I remove the pads that are in it to? Because how my wet dry is is that it comes down and goes onto this pad in a tray then drips down onto some bioballs. Then the water underneath that flows towards the front through a like 2 inch thick blue pad then back to the pump so would this all be removed? I have nitrate media in the canister and laying on the bottom of the sump should this be placed somewhere else in the sump?

[Phurst]

A Deep Sand Bed of 4"-6" will allow the regular nitrifying bacteria, as well as pods, worms and other beneficial critters to colonize the upper 2/3, aiding in removal of fish and invert waste and detritus, and the lower 1/3 will become anaerobic and harbor the denitrifying bacteria that reduce nitrate to nitrogen gas.

You definitely want to clean as much of the gunk out of the CC as you can. because of it's larger size, all the bacteria will be on the surface of the CC and you will not bother it by cleaning.

Removing the bio-balls and doing a good clean of the filter, canister, substrate and all filter pads would be of immediate benefit, whereas installing a DSB won't be of much help for a couple of months. I'd start with the bio-balls and a really good cleaning and several good sized water changes. Who knows, you may be OK after all of that and not need to do anything further.

[jennyb]

So now where do i put the media bags with the nitrate stones in it should i put them somwhere in the sump?

[Amphibious]

Hi Jenn,
to Talking Reef Forum.

For a short but informative read about DSBs, go to this link and click on the thumbnail pic of Dr. Ron Shimek's book - Sand Bed Secrets Then click on the link in my signature area about my 135 gal tank thread here on TR. I did with a wet/dry trickle filter what Phurst is referring to. Many of your questions will be answered in my tank thread.

Then come back, as I'm sure more questions will come to mind. We're here to help straighten out miss information given by well meaning people and LFS employees.

Dick

[lReef lKeeper]

i am following along too, but it looks like Pearson and Dick have you covered.

[jennyb]

How big of a water change should I do and how often because my nitrates are at dangerous levels? Also I took a handful of bio balls out today