BC29 vs. JBJ 28g

[magaman]

Hello everyone

Let me first say I'm a to marine tanks and have been lurking this site an others for a little bit now.
I'm in the planning phase of putting together a nice simple reef tank and want to get some opinions. It seems each LFS I find another brand nano cube. My journey started looking and Eclipse systems and has since moved to Biocubes and JBJ systems which seems to be a much much better way to go.
I have had many freshwater tanks in the past with much success and the technology of these all in one systems amazes me since I grew up dealing with back hanging systems and canisters.
Anyway, enough babbling, I want to know which I should go with a BC29 or a JBJ 28g HQI. The JBJ seems to be a bit more money but has the double pumps and protein skimmer, which I have been reading is very beneficial. Also do you have recommendations as far as online retailers, my LFS want 699 plus tax for the JBJ tank + stand, but I've seen Marine Depot.com is running a special for both 552 shipped, and DrForstersmiths together is in the lower 600's.

Also any other things I should know would be great.

[fat walrus]

JBJ vs Oceanic:

Oceanic any day for me. I've been in the hobby for many years and have seen lots of problems, but very few from Oceanic. I myself own a 29 and two 14s. I went through a number of cubes the last few years and Oceanic is the only brand that has not let me down so far.

Mail Order vs Retail Store:

I do not know much about your LFS, but in general I support my LFS.

Why?

1) I wish to support my local economy. I don't want to send my money out of state or area that does not benefit my local economy. Why do I want to be just a customer number to someone whom I will never meet?

2) Customer service. If shit happens, I go back to my LFS. Mail order guys tell you to call the manufacturer.

3) Familiarity. Buy the tank at a good LFS and they will remember it. They know the system and what is suitable or not for it.

4) Respect. LFS owners appreciate those who spend their money with them. When a rare specimen arrives, who do you think they will call, the guy who bought the tank from them for a little more or the guy who bought his stuff online and now just wants a deal on livestock? If some piece of equipment fails in a tank and you had purchase the item from him, the LFS owner might go out of his way to pull the item from a new unit to save your livestock, but if you bought it online, good luck.

5) Future discounts. LFS owners are no different than any other business owners, the more they see you buying, the more valuable you are to them. Since I do almost all my purchasing from my LFS, I am given an automatic 20% discount on all dry goods that is not on sale. I also get heads up for cool livestock, and they will keep it on hold so I can see it before they place it for sale.



5)

[CarmieJo]

I've not had the Oceanic but I can tell you that my NC24 is a year and a half old and the feeding lid hinges have broken as has the return pump. Because it is out of warranty JBJ won't do anything about it.

I second what Walrus said about dealing with the LFS. They are the ones who are there when a pump breaks at 7 PM on Saturday night. If you have a relationship with your LFS I'd also ask them if they can come down on the price. They may not be able to match the online retailer but they may be able to come down some. My LFS has done that for me in the past.

[magaman]

What is your feelings on the BC29's lighting compared to the JBJ system. Obviously I'm planning on keeping this tank for a long time and who knows what I might want to put in down the road.

As far as buying online vs my LFS. The BC29 is the same price online in store however the JBJ unit I can save around 200 by buying online. I understand buying instore is much better as far as being able to ask questions and get opinions, when I was doing freshwater there was no such thing as the internets and buying things online wasn't even around.

[CarmieJo]

The MH lights on the NC28 will allow you to keep more light intensive corals than the PC lights in the BC29. In my NC24 with the stock PC lights I have softies, Euphyllia, and Pocillopora. I believe you could keep some Montipora corals in it too.

Going to 150 watts of MH on that size of tank would enable you to keep most corals, including Acropora, if you can keep the water parameters stable enough. It may also require you to buy a chiller because of the heat from the MH bulbs.

[Jasonanatal]

Here is my two cents on the Aquariums. I personally chooce the JBJ 28 gallon JBJ Nano Cube HQI because of the lighting preference and the ability to upgrade to bigger and better things with this setup. Just like most Nano Aquarium limitations exist and things eventually do go wrong. I will say this much I personally favor the 28 gallon JBJ Nano Cube HQI over the Oceanic BioCube 29 gallon. But what are you trying to achieve in this Aquarium? Do you want SPS Corals or Soft Corals? Maybe no corals at all?

[rroselavy]

Originally Posted by fat walrus

I do not know much about your LFS, but in general I support my LFS.

Well said. I have dabbled online here and there for livestock, but selecting livestock at the LFS has no equal. I can evaluate health and coloration of the specimens at the LFS far more conclusively than I can from one or two pictures online. My LFS does a brisk online business as well, and as far as I can tell - the prices are the same in the store. Sometimes the owner gives me a 7 polyp piece for the price of 5 discount, but it is unclear whether this is just extrapolated polyp pricing or colony pricing.

For drygoods, I sometimes pick up Salifert kits, Arctipods or this/that at the LFS when I need something quick. They must drop-ship much of their online drygood selection, because their store selection is very limited.

Customer service. If shit happens, I go back to my LFS. Mail order guys tell you to call the manufacturer.

Not always true. Foster & Smith is a great company that stands behind their products. Sure, it is more convenient to return a product to a store, but in my experience, F&S stands behind their products and makes sure that the customer is satisfied. I'm sure there are online dealers on both sides of the fence.

[keith p]

I have tried SO hard to find a good "all-around" LFS. I need to goto 5 different stores to get everything I need.
With that said, I buy mostly from Marinedepot. As much as I want to support the local guy, Marinedepot's prices are good, tech staff is intelligent, and service has been 100%.

Also remember to try Aquabuys.com, our sponsor

I like the BioCube over the JBJ. I think the fit and finish is better.
You can always add a MH down the road (I have an extra 150W retrofit kit I will post for sale later tonight).

[rroselavy]

In Southern California, almost all of the really good LFS are down in Orange County - which is atleast an hour drive for me. Even Marine Depot has a pickup window so local customers can save on shipping!

I've never returned anything I've bought from MD, so I do not know what their service is like. I really like how I can have my MD orders delivered the next day since I am local, but some of their pricing and extra fees for bulky, heavy and frozen items is a bit steep. For example, it is cheaper from me to buy salt and substrate from F&S in Rhinelander, Wisconsin than it is from MD in Los Angeles! Pricing on MD items can be a bit odd, like how they are charging $499 for the Digital Aquatics Reefkeeper Elite presale even though DA sells it for $490 on their site. All told however, MD's inventory is deeper/more dedicated to SW/has more premium products than F&S.

Ooops. Sorry to stray off topic...

Carmie brings up a really good point about needing a chiller. IMHO, a nano is supposed to be inexpensive and simple to setup and maintain, so when I see people adding anything beyond a skimmer and an ATO, I start to wonder if they should just have a bigger tank.

Not to be undermining, but after having a JBJ Nanocube DX up and running for 1.5 years, I would lean toward an open top tank with standard 24" length such as a Finnex 30g M-Tank or a CADlights tank with a nice 24" T5 HO fixture with individual reflectors.

In lieu of standard dimensions, may I also suggest the sleek Current-USA Solana tank, or Foster&Smiths (cheaper) 25g OEM version of the 34g Solana dubbed the "EcoCube".

I know, I know...I'm not helping...

[keith p]

rroselavy,

You make some good points. If I knew then what I know now, I would have skipped the Nano and got something larger as a first tank. I would have also not gotten an "All-in-one" jobber...

"a nano is supposed to be inexpensive and simple to setup and maintain"

Doh! I have an ATO, Skimmer, Chiller, and AquaController (by the end of the week). So far they all seem to be a "necessity" to me with the AquaPod

[rroselavy]

Originally Posted by keith p

Doh! I have an ATO, Skimmer, Chiller, and AquaController (by the end of the week). So far they all seem to be a "necessity" to me with the AquaPod

I bet you can repurpose the ATO, AquaController and perhaps the chiller if/when you do get a bigger tank, so no worries...

[CarmieJo]

I was really impressed with the Finnex M-Tank at MACNA last year. I've not heard that they have problems with cheap construction/poor engineering (like the hinges on the feeding lid of the NanoCubes) or even of people doing a lot of mods to one so I think they are probably well designed and well made. If I was to buy another all-in-one the M-Tank would be on my short list.

[liquid wind]

I'm pretty sure my lfs is lying to me, but just to make sure what can't you keep under the lighting in the biocube and would it be possible to easily upgrade it. One last set of questions how difficult/expensive is it to set up an auto top off system and how often would I need to manually top it off.