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Old 03-11-2008, 04:19 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Sheol's 80-Gallon - Description and QUESTIONS

I have way too much to write in here than I am actually going to take the time to write, but I have so many miscellaneous questions, and I feel like I'm just all over the place on this forum right now.

A quick question I just had on my mind, that I didn't know where to post was:
I'm COMPLETELY allergic to sand fleas. The last time I went to the Cayman Islands, I almost went into anaphylactic shock (from what I hear). My body swelled up like crazy... so I read that amphipods are sand fleas... Are those the same little guys that I'm allergic to? If so, that terrifies me!

So anyhow, I inherited an 80-Gallon salt water tank, fish / invertebrates / live rock when my roommate moved to Hawaii.

All that was living in it was one 3-striped damsel fish and one rock boring urchin. He hadn't cleaned his filter or changed his filter media in probably about 6 months when I got the tank, and he used to only test his water parameters when he saw the urchin's spikes beginning to droop.

It needed a lot of work, and I've never maintained a tank before... so I had a lot of learning that I needed to do, and fast. I mostly read things on the internet, and bought two books for beginners. I started using his water test kit, and got to work on lowering the ammonia / nitrites with additives and frequent canister filter cleaning / water changes. After I thought all was well (ammonia, nitrites 0), I added some fish. The damsel fish had to be caught and taken to the LFS - he wasn't havin' it. The urchin soon started dying. His spikes started falling off, and not long after he died. About that time I read that low DO was symbiotic to high nitrates. I realized that he didn't have enough oxygen in the tank, so I set out to get a second air pump. I didn't know yet that the main source of gas exchange happened at the surface. When I was shopping for air pumps, I found that the air pump I did have was for a 30-gallon aquarium, and the only other source of current was from the canister filter.

I immediately ordered and installed a protein skimmer, which was a huge chore in itself, because the tank had to be moved forward by an inch and a half to make room for it on the back. The stand is completely unfit for a salt water tank, and there is no room for a sump or refugium under it. I emptied the tank to just above the substrate and moved it forward - it's a glass tank - still pretty damn heavy. After that, I installed 4 maxi jet 1200's and a wavemaker. My boyfriend is BEGGING me to find a better placement for the powerheads, because he thinks they look atrocious with two in the front of the tank. I currently have two in the bottom back corners, aimed up and towards eachother, and two in the front, about 1/3 down, aimed up and towards eachother. The wavemaker is set to alternate between the two left and the two right powerheads right now, but there are a lot of other options.

My nitrates are still high. 80 ppm. I'm working on lowering them, and when I stirred up the sand and blew off the rocks with a turkey baster, there was an insane amount of detritus coming up. There still appears to be a lot of detritus in the sand. Speaking of the sand - I don't know what kind it is, but it's black. I don't know if it's a detritus trap or what. I like the way the black sand looks, but I'm guessing it might not be the most functional sand.

There is also not enough LR in the tank - my guess is it had about 25 - 30 lbs of LR in it, and I've added 41 pounds since, with more to go. AND speaking of LR, there is a little plant-like thing growing on my newest piece--it's kind of clear, and shaped like a small flower with tentacles that reach up towards the light. I saw someone else's aquarium today, and it looked like a smaller version of things that he had growing all over his rocks. (Aptasia maybe?) He told me to kill it immediately - that it's a nuisance. He said to inject it with hot water. Do I need to use DI water for that, or boil tap water, or... ?

I've seen some weird things living in my LR already - some weird bright green slug thing that dropped from a rock I was holding in my hand into another and just sucked RIGHT into a hole so fast I couldn't really see what it looked like, and a rainbow colored worm. Also, there are a LOT of bristle worms... a LOT. Those were there before I added my LR. I've gotten an arrow crab to eat them. I saw him eating one already. He munched on it all day.

I'm interested in buying lights for my tank (to support anemone / coral), and according to some calculations I found at one point I determined that I would need 2 x 250 MH (well, MH by choice - just seems like a good light) and for the actinics, I'm open to a couple different options, but I want a hood that also has nighttime LEDs, and I want it all hooked up to a timer to control them. Right now my lights are weak, though I do have them hooked up two two timers which slowly become out of sync.

The thing is - I'm not happy with the stand for my tank (dumb freshwater stand - water damaged, too), and I'm not even really happy with the size of my tank (it's standing against a 70" wall, so I think a 60" tank would look better than a 48" tank. Therefore, I'm reluctant to spend over a grand on lights when I should really just save up and get a whole new tank... but I'm still undecided and want the lights. I should focus on lowering the nitrates, but I'm not sure what else I should do aside from the frequent water changes. I put some denitrate rocks in the canister filter... Doesn't seem to do much, but maybe they're keeping it at a stable level. Who knows?

Also, when I clean the canister filter, I take all of the media and rinse it out in water that was removed from the tank. Then I put it back... Is that not a good enough way to get the detritus out? One guy told me he put a piece of sponge-like filter media in his washing machine with no soap on the gentle cycle... I don't know if I should do something like that (one media piece at a time, of course), or if rinsing it off in my used water is enough.

My tank is overstocked... especially when considering grown sizes of the fish, but maybe I'm just on the verge with the current sizes, so I should probably go ahead and work towards upgrading the tank and making it just how I like it anyway. I will list everything in my tank right now, as long as you don't yell at me for it being overstocked. :P

And everything has names, except for 15 of the hermit crabs, but I won't list those here.

Inverts:
Arrow Crab
~18 small hermit crabs
Skunk-striped cleaner shrimp
Scarlet cleaner shrimp (fire shrimp)

Fish:
(Also, I'm aware that I'm not supposed to have all these clowns together. I was told I may have good luck with them if I added them all on the same day, so I did, and they have coexisted pretty peacefully, except the tomato clown is starting to get out of hand and I'd like to catch him and bring him to the LFS. If the hierarchy changes after he's gone, I'll do the same with the next until they're coexisting peacefully.)
1 Sebae Clown (I think)
1 Tomato Clown
1 False Percula Clown
1 Gold Striped Maroon Clown
2 Firefish Gobies
1 Purple Firefish Goby
1 Lawnmower Blenny
2 Banggai Cardinals
1 Royal Gramma
7 Green Chromis

And last but not least, here is a video of my little guys just after I added the powerheads:

Some things have changed since that video - most significantly the addition of a single 35-lb piece of live rock, but that's still a general overview of my tank - also note the intrusive powerhead placement that my bf hates (I zoom in on them because the main purpose of me having those videos is to give tank updates to my roommate who's now in Hawaii). Does anyone have any suggestions for the best places to put these 4 powerheads?

Last edited by Sheol; 03-12-2008 at 02:19 PM. Reason: Minus 1 Cardinal
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Old 03-11-2008, 04:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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First things first.

Quote:
I'm COMPLETELY allergic to sand fleas. The last time I went to the Cayman Islands, I almost went into anaphylactic shock (from what I hear). My body swelled up like crazy... so I read that amphipods are sand fleas... Are those the same little guys that I'm allergic to? If so, that terrifies me!
NO, the Amphipods and Copepod in your aquarium are not the sand fleas that caused you great harm in the Caymen Islands. I can't give you any background on them but what did you harm live on dry land and not aquatic. They bite, Amphipods and Copepod do not.

Nitrates - 80 ppm is quite high and borderline trouble for your fish and invertebrates. The probable causes are detritus in the sand bed, water source, foods, and the biggest culprit is the canister filter. Canister filters have been coined, Nitrate sinks, meaning the source of your problem. In order to reduce your Nitrates under the current situation is massive water changes often. Not an easy thing to do in an 80 gallon.

You need to seriously think through getting that 60" tank and setting it up the right way. The right way would require you to thoroughly research the subject here on TR. Here's a link to my tank thread - Amphibious' 135 gal Reef - This will give you an idea of other methods we employ to filter our reef tanks.

Also, here's a link on Deep Sand Beds (DSB) - Sand Bed Secrets - Click on the thumbnail picture of the book.

Aptasia - A pest!!! You can try the hot water thing but something many have found that works better is Joe's Juice. I've used it to completely eliminate the pest from my 135. Here's the link - Joe's Juice

I'll post more suggestions at a later time. Got to run right now.

Dick
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Old 03-11-2008, 08:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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That's good to know about the amphipods - I didn't want to die, haha.

With the nitrates,a t least I know it's not the water source - tests 0 before I mix it into my tank... and I was doing 25-gallon changes every week - I thought that'd be big enough to get it handled by now, and my patience is wearing thin! (In the beginning, though, I didn't know I had to disturb the sand and blow detritus off the rocks.)

The canister filter: Shouldn't I be able to handle it by cleaning it frequently? I have a feeling that my method of rinsing the sponges in used salt water isn't enough to get all the detritus out and maybe I should try to put it through the washing machine like someone (from wetwebmedia) once suggested to me.

Joe's Juice: I'll give it a try - but I SO hate paying for shipping when I buy stuff. It's actually preventing me from buying some replacement suction cups for an old powerhead - NO I won't pay $8 shipping for a 65-cent item - ew.

Speaking of small powerheads - if I DID have to pay $9 for suction cups for an old Rio 600 powerhead, does anyone have any suggestions for a replacement small powerhead instead? It's just for the 12-Gallon quarantine tank. I was thinking a Maxi-Jet 400, since I like my Maxi-Jet 1200's in my DT...

I'd say the sand bed and LR were big storers of detritus, supplying the nitrates. It had probably been building up for a year without being disturbed when I got the tank, and there is always plenty of white detritus coming out of the sand when it's stirred. Also, I have no snails - will that help at all?

Oh I will DEFINITELY design my next system by the book - substrate and all - but still, I need to find a good deal on a tank / stand on Craigslist or something. It's just crazy expensive. My boyfriend thought I was insane for spending $200 on a rock... luckily he didn't ask me what it cost until 2 hours after it was all situated. :P

LIGHTS: Does anyone know whether I should look into buying these lights? I wanted 2 x 250-Watt MH, but these are 2 x 175 Watt, and I don't know that they'll be enough to support Anemone / Coral. I also had my heart set on lights w/ night time LEDs... but those lights are only $250 - the fact that it says "retrofit", though, means I can't use them, if I don't have a canopy, right?

Thanks for the response - I'll be sure to check some of those other links you posted later, when my company isn't paying me to sit here and read this forum. :P
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Old 03-12-2008, 12:21 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheol
That's good to know about the amphipods - I didn't want to die, haha.
I knew you'd like that.

Quote:
The canister filter: Shouldn't I be able to handle it by cleaning it frequently?
No. The canister filter can help eliminate Ammonia and Nitrate because it in colonized with the aerobic bacteria necessary for converting those substances to Nitrate. The Nitrate continues to build up because there isn't anaerobic conditions necessary to convert the Nitrate to Nitrogen gas, the final stage in the Nitrogen cycle. You could clean it every day, that's not going to solve the problem.

I understand not wanting to pay shipping on one item. That's why we price our items to include shipping. You'll find our J's J competitively priced with your LFS, if they even handle it. Joe's Juice

Quote:
I'd say the sand bed and LR were big storers of detritus, supplying the nitrates. It had probably been building up for a year without being disturbed when I got the tank, and there is always plenty of white detritus coming out of the sand when it's stirred. Also, I have no snails - will that help at all?
I think you are correct on the sand bed and LR holding detritus. If you go with a DSB in the future tank (4" minimum), then you will add a clean-up crew. The clean-up crew will include snails of several types. Here is a link to my tank thread which will help you understand much of what you need to know - Amphibious' 135 Reef

Quote:
My boyfriend thought I was insane for spending $200 on a rock... luckily he didn't ask me what it cost until 2 hours after it was all situated.
I'll bet he gets what ever he wants regardless of the cost. What good are boyfriends, anyway?

Quote:
LIGHTS: Does anyone know whether I should look into buying these lights? I wanted 2 x 250-Watt MH, but these are 2 x 175 Watt, and I don't know that they'll be enough to support Anemone / Coral. I also had my heart set on lights w/ night time LEDs... but those lights are only $250 - the fact that it says "retrofit", though, means I can't use them, if I don't have a canopy, right?
You are correct about having to have a hood to mount the retros. Too many beginners think the brighter the MHs the better. Most of them buy insane (there's that word again) lights and wind up burning corals or having the bleach out. I would say start with 175 watt MHs with 2 110 watt VHO actinic florescent. You are going to be able to keep any coral you will likely run into and the anemone will be fine, too.

Hope this helps.

Dick
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Reaching my 70th BD, I realize that I cannot help but grow old. However, I refuse to grow up!!! My wife would tell you, "He may be 70 but, He's going on 17". Life is wonderful with a woman like that.

Our web site The Cultured Reef
Our Talking Reef Forum The Cultured Reef Forum
My tank journal Amphibious' 135 mixed reef.
The Cutured Reef toll free number - 888 745-0449



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Old 03-12-2008, 03:57 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphibious
I would say start with 175 watt MHs with 2 110 watt VHO actinic florescent.
Well - I don't see the option for 175 very often - I usually see either 150 or 250... so you think I should go with the 150 or search out some 175s?

Also, I no longer have three cardinals. I came home from my brother's soccer game to this:

I'm looking through your thread right now - your advice on the drilled PVC pipe to support the LR - BRILLIANT. I tried to push most of my live rock all the way down to the bottom surface of the tank, but that idea is so much better.

Also, is the high fin blenny more difficult to keep than a lawnmower blenny? It's a lot more attractive. That's for sure... not that I don't like my little guy. :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphibious
he Nitrate continues to build up because there isn't anaerobic conditions necessary to convert the Nitrate to Nitrogen gas, the final stage in the