Hey Gang,
It's been a while since I logged into Talkingreef. I just upgraded my 37 gallon to a 75 gallon recently. Let me say the wife was thrilled about that, NOT. I'll take some pics and post later. Got a ways to go on this one. Took me 11 hours to actually move everything, including 2 trips to the store for 40 gallons of ozonated/DI water. It's been going well for the last two weeks since I set it up. I was going buy a moon (lunar) wrasse however I haven't read many positive things about them since I stated researching. I did get a powder blue tang that is beautiful. Hope he does well, he was expensive!
__________________ Tony K.
------------------
75 Gallon Reef Tank
Livestock: 6 Chromis, Atlantic Blue Tang, Yellow Tang, Flame Angel, Pair Maroon Clowns, Bristal Star
Corals: Bubble Coral, Toadstool Leather, Star Polyp, Zoo's, Mushrooms, Clam
1. They are ich magnets. They tend to get ich for any and all reasons, including stress.
2. They are bullies. Forget about any other tangs, or fish that are approx the same size, unless that fish is more aggressive.
They are, however, beautiful fish. I have had mine for several years. My concern is that it will probably outgrow your 75. These fish love to swim, and most "experts" (of which I am not one!) agree that a 6' tank is the minimum for an adult Powder Blue.
Choosing good stock and keeping Powder Blues fed correctly with a variety of foods you can keep them in a 75, I will admit that a 75 may be on the low end in tank size, which also can cause problems. However having said that, I have had a Powder Blue, Purple, and Clown tang in my reef for as long as 3 years. My reef at that time was a 75 gallon.
A clue to keeping peace is how they are introduced to the tank, turning off the lights to let them ease into the tank, and or keeping them in a large net or clear tub so the others can see them and get use to them, this can be helpful if you do see flaring, you can always remove them and go back into quarantine. Feeding everyone prior to introducing a new fish will work also, fat and happy buys you time.
Ick comes from stess and bad stock, quarintine the fish and feed correctly and you can have great luck with tangs.
I have also always tried to start with smaller specimens.
Enjoy, and good luck with your tank.
__________________ To be or not to be. -- Shakespeare
To do is to be. -- Nietzsche
To be is to do. -- Sartre
Do be do be do. -- Sinatra
---------------------------------------- Fibber's Cay
Last edited by FibberMcGee; 04-17-2007 at 09:45 AM.
Very interesting input on the tangs. Thanks! Well its been a few weeks and all heck has broken lose and I have lost about 4 fish within a week. The tang first off after two weeks, then shortly their after the angel (coral beauty), rabbit, & a damsel. All three went in about a week or so time. I checked water and everything was perfect. I still have 3 fish; clown, goby and chromis. All three I have had for a couple years. Nothing changed in the tank, high temp occasionally, 80.5 in the middle of the day sometimes and a low drop once to maybe 76 when a cold snap came thru and I didn't turn the heat on in the house. Usually the temp is around 79 on avg. However I do have a heater in the tank, but probably need to get a bigger one. But regardless I didn't notice any white spots and or to odd of behavior prior to death of the fish. I did notice the the rabbit and coral beauty started acting weird the night before death. The would find a spot in the tank and stay in that spot and just sit their wiggling (swimming in place) prior to finding them dead the next morning. I mentioned this to the LFS and had them also check my water. Oh one other thing, my salt may be a little high: 1.027, but I have heard that is OK. So they had my put some stuff called Rally by Ruby Reef in the tank. rally_medication LFS suggested I turn my skimmer off for about a day during the treatment. I put 15 oz in for the 75 gal of water as suggested on the label. Then realized it was 1oz for every 10 gal, should have only put in 7oz, duh. I misread the label. Anyway everything seems to be doing fine two days after treatment coral and fish. I turned the skimmer back on after a day. At this point what should I do, 20% water change? Leave the water in it? How long before introducing a new fish? What would be a good fish to try to re introduce into the tank? And after the fish surviving how long should I wait before adding more fish? Prior to upgrading to the new 75 gal, I always had problems introducing new fish, they all seemed to die within two weeks. But the fish that were in the 75 gal all lived two weeks or longer. The coral beauty was 6 months old or older. The tang and rabbit were about 3 weeks old. So any suggestions would be appreciated. And here are some pics as I promised previously of the new tanks. DSC05325 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
__________________ Tony K.
------------------
75 Gallon Reef Tank
Livestock: 6 Chromis, Atlantic Blue Tang, Yellow Tang, Flame Angel, Pair Maroon Clowns, Bristal Star
Corals: Bubble Coral, Toadstool Leather, Star Polyp, Zoo's, Mushrooms, Clam
Where to begin? First of all, let me say I am very sorry for your loss. It does happen to us all. The trick is to learn from our mistakes so as not to repeat them.
Here are some comments and suggestions. This is my advice, I am not an expert. I've just been doing this for most of my 43 years.
You have discovered why setting up a QT tank is so important. The stress that saltwater fish go through, between being caught in the ocean to arriving at our LFS, is amazing. Almost all livestock arrives diseased, some obvious, some not. A QT tank allows you to ensure that the fish are disease free, and that if they do become sick, they are in a controled enviroment for treatment. It also allows a fish to adapt to tank life, most important - eating. Fish should be QT'd for a minimum of 4 weeks after they show no signs of disease.
Never treat your display tank. Effective medicines will usually kill your corals, inverts, or live rock. Ineffective medicines will do nothing. The only way to make sure your tank is disease free (or close to disease free) is to allow it to run fallow (no fish) for 4 weeks minimum, 6 weeks are better. Even using a QT tank does not ensure that you will not have a disease outbreak. I QT all my fish, yet had a disease outbreak in my 240. Yes - my fish lived in a 46 tank for 6 weeks while I treated them and let the tank run fallow.
There may be other issues. 1.027 is too high for most fish, IMO. I would suggest 1.025 for reef tanks, and 1.023 for fish only.
Tempature fluctuations can cause stress, and stress can lead to disease. This is how my tank got an ich outbreak.
Speaking of stress, adding a new fish can cause stress to other tank mates as well.
You said you checked everything and the water is perfect. Could you be more specific? What exactly did you test?
Where the fish eating? Where they chasing each other? Where there any sores or cuts on the bodies?
Mu suggestion: set up a QT tank / do a 50% water change / lower the salinity / get that temp stabilized / let the display tank run fallow for 6 weeks / retest all water parameters / add fish SLOWLY after QT
did you test for nitrite and ammonia? In looking at your tank picture, you don't have a whole lot of live rock in there and I can't tell if your sand bed is deep or not (>4"). could you possibly have elevated levels? I know you said you tested the water, but what exactly did you test?
Reefbaby,
I use the salifert test kits, which are supposed to be the best, and I test for the important ones; Ammonia, Cal, KH/Alk, Nitrate, Nitrite, & PH. That's why I took the water to my LFS to double check my results were correct. I don't have the actual reading I wrote down right in front of me they are at home. I have added about 10 more lbs of live rock since I took those pictures. I moved the rock from my old tank to the new 75 gallons and just don't have the money for all the rock I need yet. But I will add additional rock slowly but surely. My sand bed is about 4" or deeper.
__________________ Tony K.
------------------
75 Gallon Reef Tank
Livestock: 6 Chromis, Atlantic Blue Tang, Yellow Tang, Flame Angel, Pair Maroon Clowns, Bristal Star
Corals: Bubble Coral, Toadstool Leather, Star Polyp, Zoo's, Mushrooms, Clam
Danamck,
Awesome post THANKS for all the input and not flogging me to bad for my mistakes!!!! I guess thats how your learn in this hobby. Anyway great info, well sounds like I need to setup my old 37 and build a QT tank. Few questions first on a QT tank and if I should take this to another thread please let me know. I guess I have two avenues on my questions. One is how to setup a QT tank correctly and second is about how to go about the fallow process you mentioned about on my current tanks.
QT Tank first:
It is my understanding that you just want water and filtration on the QT tank, nothing else. No sand or rock. Would a QT tank use one of those UV aquarium/Water Sterilizer & Ozoniers on the QT tank, or just a skimmer and sump? And is their anything disease treatments you use in a QT tank to ensure the fish are treated during their stay before adding them to the main tank?
Second question:
in order to fallow my current tank you say it takes 6 weeks to clear up any issues. So take my fish out of the display (does that include corrals) and QT them for 6 weeks. Is the absence of fish for 6 weeks from a display tank a guaranty that their will be no diseases in the display after 6 weeks? Can the sand and the rock in the display hold onto any diseases during that 6 week period. I know these are probably dumb questions but figured I would ask anyway.
Feeding:
I feed the fish a pinch of flake everyday and some frozen seaweed cube every other day. I also add a frozen type of shrimp cube every few days. All of which I let thaw before adding. I don't know the exact names of the products since they are at home and I am at work.
Tests:
see my post above to reebaby.
__________________ Tony K.
------------------
75 Gallon Reef Tank
Livestock: 6 Chromis, Atlantic Blue Tang, Yellow Tang, Flame Angel, Pair Maroon Clowns, Bristal Star
Corals: Bubble Coral, Toadstool Leather, Star Polyp, Zoo's, Mushrooms, Clam
You're welcome. One of the reasons I like TR so much is that everyone is really friendly and helpful, without all the attitude. (Unlike some other sites that shall go unnamed!) We are all trying to help one another succeed in our favorite hobby.
A QT tank is simple: tank, water, basic filtration or water movement (sponge filter, power head, hand on back filter minus any carbon filtration), heater, basic light, and perhaps some large pvc pieces or FAKE corals (for fish to hide in/behind). I don't use a UV on my
icon under their name to add to their reputation.