I wanted to ask what everyone thought of my plans. I've tried to make a little write up of what I'm doing and I am hoping to get some good feedback on it.
As you can see I am currently running 3/4 display tanks and hope to expand adding another tank twice the size of my others and an additional tank just to increase the water volume. I will also be adding some new equipment which I still havn't written about.
PLEASE DO NOT keep a French Angel in a 40 breeder !! this tank is WAY to small for this fish !! this fish will IMHO, need to be in a tank of AT LEAST 125 gallons !! it will be EXTREMELY unhappy and stressed, and this will UNDOUBTABLY contribute to its untimely death. i am begging you NOT to do that to this beautiful fish !! if you want that fish, get the right size tank for it first, please !!
__________________ Bobby
"I FORMERLY glued animals to rocks" NO TANK RIGHT NOW, but you never know when I might throw one together !! I have everything I need but the time!!
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I am sorry I have a horrible memory. On RC I have posted the same comments probably about 20-25 times:
"Errrrrrr. Sorry I forgot I need to mention in every single post I make on RC that my French angle will not live out it's life in a 20g tank. (Not yelling at you tanker just tired of discussing this issue.) PM me if you have questions on this issue I do not want to get this thread off topic. "
In addition since I've had the animal for at least 2.5 years now... what are my options? Take it to an LFS=Kill it now?(might as well pop it in the freezer). I did not purchase this animal with out doing research. I rescued it from a former tank owner that wanted to get rid of it badly because it lost an eye in a fight. My one eyed fish is with me for the long hall it seems. Anyone who can afford to set up a system for a French Angle will probably be paying for a very nice one and wouldn't dare to take this unperfected animal. I wouldn't give him up either until I was sure I was giving it to an experienced hobbyist with a stable life style.
Unless we know of a Angle Rescue House or someone would like to donate me a tank larger then 125gallons... Let’s leave this alone.
The only other comment would be that a proposed plumb of a seahorse tank into a system that is, for the majority of inhabitants, 'reef like' is not a good idea.
Seahorses, even those from 'tropical areas' are typically kept in lower temperature environments (75-78F) than reef systems. This is done for a few reasons; most importantly, to keep down the metabolism and therefore the agressive nature of virus and bacterial disease like Vibro.
The tank is positioned in such a spot where I could separate it if needed, but then would have to buy a separate skimmer and an additional heater and start to do a large amount of water changes, not to mention the additional food I would have to add due to cutting it off from the refugium that will be going into my system.
I've heard of and seen people keeping sea horses in tropical temperatures. I plan to do a massive amount of research into the species I will be keeping and will take every precaution necessary. I also plan to add them just about last, use a UV sterilizer, and a qt tank. (I qt things for a massive amount of time before they touch my well established tanks)
Thanks for your concern though. I know your looking out for the animals, but I won’t take on anything I can’t handle.
Simple case in point... I don't have a heater in my seahorse tank. I put one in the sump only if the temps drop below 75F (which, with my wife around, doesn't happen until around March...she thinks I'm a millionaire or in the Gas company )
You could also go without a skimmer for seahorses. Personally, I use one. Always have. Others however, feel that skimmers, and the bubbles created by the skimmers may add to the causes of gas bubble disease in seahorses.
Finally, your refugium can not feed the seahorses. Most species that we keep are considered "large" seahorses and will need frozen, enriched mysid shrimp and other larger foods. Sure, they will take live, adult mysid and ghost/grass feeder shrimp, but they aren't really going to make their way into that tank via a pump from the refugium. The smallish, juvenile pods, and mysid will probably be ignored by seahorses. They will have to be fed, at least twice a day, by you.
I too have seen people keep seahorses in tropical temperatures. They are typically the ones who call me or email me to ask what kinds of medications they should use to treat bacterial infections, parasites etc. One such "reefer" boasted to me about the fact that his seahorse lived in his reef tank (and in the end, the sump of said tank) for a WHOLE TWO YEARS!!! Well.. yahoo... that poor sygnathid died prematurely!
Again, hats off to you for starting your research. Please continue with the reading and understanding before going forward.
i too commend the research efforts, its good to see that..
that said, i think the point Dave is trying to make here is this.
there is a difference between what you "can" and "should" do
you "can" put a naso tang in a 30 gallon tank, it "will" live. but it will get quite stressed, which will reduce it immune response, leading to disease or infection that will ultimately kill it.
like wise, you "can" put a pony in a tropical environment, but if you look at their natural environment, this is not it, they are found in cooler lagoons. and the experience of many people shows that when SH is kept in this environment its has increased chance of infection and increase chance of premature death.
at the end of the day its your call, we are just here to share experience as needed.
who knows, maybe you will have luck at it, but is the risk worth it? that's up to you..
anyways, thanks for taking the time to check out our info, and again, i commend all who do there homework first.. its one thing to go against he grain when educated, its a whole nother case when you do it cause you don't know better..
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sorry if i sounded a little preachy !! i am not expert in fish husbandy, but it kills me when i go to the LFS and see a 12" angel or tang in a 20 gal. tank. granted it probably wont be there long ... BUT it is still so stressed out that it probably wont survive the acclimation period when someone buys it.
i think (and this is MY opinion) this is one of the reasons that A LOT of fish have a poor survival rate. anyone ever noticed that when a LFS gets in ,say, a Black or Purple Tang ... it goes in the display tank and lives a long life. when it is a more common fish ... it goes into a small tank and has a 25% chance of surviving until someone buys it.
i am by no means an expert on the husbandry of seahorses, but II would do whatever David told ME to do with ponies !! i have known him for quite a while (he got me over to this site ... thanx buddy), and i have NEVER seen him stear anyone wrong ... especially in the seahorse categlory. keep up the great work David !!
__________________ Bobby
"I FORMERLY glued animals to rocks" NO TANK RIGHT NOW, but you never know when I might throw one together !! I have everything I need but the time!!
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It is difficult once you get to be a bit more advanced hobbyist to find out accurate information. Any single article I read will contain 90% information I know already. Especially since most articles try to give enough back ground right off the start to express to a newbie who found the article through google that they shouldn't simply try things and need to read more.
For instance when I first heard there were people who kept octopuses and cuttlefish in home aquariums I heard so many people say it was near impossible that I left that idea to look at more common inhabitants. Like I said before I don't want what everyone else has(not that any two tanks are alike, but I want to be different). Turns out in a species tank with the right species of animal and enough research they seem to me to be a million times easier and cheaper to keep then most corals.
Another example would be reading that a mandarin can only be kept in a massively large aquarium with tons of LR. Fact is now that you can purchase pods at many LFSs you could keep possibly keep one in a 20 gallon bare bottom tank, as long as you are feeding correctly. (If your new to the hobby and reading this don’t take this advice and buy one go read more to see what I am talking about.)
I've took many different courses here at the University of Delaware from computer science to organic chemistry to biology. I worked in a marine biology lab for a short time and have spent more hours then can be counted reading.
One of the guys that worked in the lab used to collect “pods” all the time to feed his sea horses that he collected locally. I heard this though through another biologist who used to work with him and perhaps they had misheard what the person was doing. Perhaps the sea horse owner was collecting shore shrimp or even large amphipods and simply called them “pods”.
i agree with you on the info that is out there, a lot of it is out dated. the formula that i use when collecting info on ANYTHING SW is this ...
if you read 50% good and 50% bad about any one subject ... go with the 50% bad and stay away from it. the 50% good could be a very expensive mistake to be made. for example ... if you read 2 articles that say "you can keep a manderin in a newly esatablished tank", and read 2 others that say that "you cant" ... go with the the one that says you cant. this is what i did when first starting out ... and i must say that it worked well FOR ME !! in other words ... if the negatives are equal to or greater than the positives ... go with the negatives.
__________________ Bobby
"I FORMERLY glued animals to rocks" NO TANK RIGHT NOW, but you never know when I might throw one together !! I have everything I need but the time!!
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That’s a good way to look at things. Rather safe then sorry if it is risky. And I never take just one persons advice or what one article says even if it's some super smart post casting hobbyist worshiped in the forums or a scientist with a doctorate. For instance my old boss who specialized in fish, was the expert in fish in the university and in the state, and made frequent visits to speak in Washington... he didn't know all that much about the ecology of tropical animals. Even the experts aren't experts on everything.(though sometimes they think so.) The other thing is some people can’t always word things correctly and I also have a bad tendency to misinterpret things I’m told or things that I read.
ryan 
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