Trouble in paradise...

[Raygunn]

first off how is everyone doing?
i've been real busy with work and haven't been on here as much as i'd like lately...
second... i've got problems!!!
last week i had what seems to have been a mass crab/snail/shrimp suicide/homicide pact.
over 3 days or so i lost like 4 shrimp numerous snails and at least 3 or 4 emerald crabs and a horse shoe crab.
the horse shoe crab was very exciting and i had him for oh... about 3 days... he was more fun than a barrel of monkeys... he was just so outta control and doing flips in the water swimming upside down etc... very enjoyable... but then he got sucked up into the power head... saddest ever... this is the 2nd animal i've lost this way... i lost a green chromis last month the same way...
anyway back to the problem at hand...
over those few days it seemed that everything in my tank was doomed!
so i did test on my water...
this was a week ago

Alk/dkh - 14˚dkh
Calcium - 400
Phosphate - 0-.25
Salinity - 1.025-1.026
Ammonia - 0-.25
Nitrate - 2.5
Nitrite - 20
PH - 8.2

nothing here really looked out of order too much here i didn't think...

and i did another test today

Alk/dkh - 12˚dkh
Calcium - 400
Phosphate - 0
Salinity - 1.025-1.026
Ammonia - 0-.25
Nitrate - 2.5
Nitrite - 5-10
PH - 8.2

i have some hair algae growing and what i think may be cyanobacteria maybe... it started out a few days ago as just a film over one of my rocks but now its all wavy like hair bacteria...
i dont think the hair algae is way outta control... but as fast as that cyanobacteria is growing im worried about it..

all i have in the tank right now is two green chromis whatever crabs and snails and shrimp didn't enter the pact two rock anemone and a few zoos so nothing crazy...
but i dont know what the deal is...
i left one day for a like a 2 or 3 hr errand before i leave i see one of my larger emerald crabs running around just doing whatever... then when i get back he is upside down dead... same thing with one of my nicer more healthy looking peppermint shrimp...

here are a few pics of what i've got going on...



my sand also looks like this...






and this is some kind of coral that was on my rock... i asked about an ID before and no one was quite sure what the deal was with it... they all started to bleach i guess maybe... so i moved them down some to see if they will recover... any ideas on how to take care of these guys?
they have little tenticles that come out and all but if you touch the orange parts they are really hard like rock...




so any ideas on why everything died? since then i haven't had anything that i've noticed dead...
i'm not AS worried about the algae it doesn't seem to be out of control yet... but the dead everything... that concerns me...

i appreciate all the help!

[veriann]

nitrites are high considering the bioload in animal form, what you been feeding & is carcus extraction been 100% accounted for? How old is the tank? Whats your lighting & cycle info?That Algae is nasty stuff cause it'll spread like a B$%tch, but unless it over takes your static animals isn't not much to worry about really as its actually consuming your nutrients to reproduce, try to improve water quality & increase your changeout amounts coupled with manual removal & an active mental decrease in your nutrient inputs for awhile should reduce it over time. Persistance is the key, but yeah, besides that spike it doesn't paint the full story yet as to why things perished. answer the above, others will chime in soon & it'll get both you & us to a beter understanding of whats happened or could of happen, & hence how to correct it!

[Raygunn]

ok i know i put on there that the nitrites are 2.5... TWICE... but i meant that they are .25 oh what the difference a decimal place can make...
right now i'm just feeding a few flakes for the fish once to twice a day and once a week or so i drop in a small piece of scalop or squid... lately i haven't been doing that as much since i've lost most of the people i thought would enjoy those treats...
i havent finde all the carcus yet...
the tank is not very old it was started up may 1st....
i was having the lights on for about 10-12 hrs a day... when i started seeing this happen i decreased the lighting but now its more around 8-10... but i'm being more consistant with it now... before i would turn them on when i got up and turn them off when i went to bed or whatever... and since the new discovery of the amazing growth of that one algae i've decreased it even more to just keeping it off till about mid day...

[dillan]

whats your temp been like the tank didn't get to hot by chance did it

[Raygunn]

the temp is usually about 77-78ish

[Raygunn]

ok i went back and looked at this post again...
i dont know what i was thinking...
in the first listing i had everything mixed up
for the one about a week ago
nitrate - 20ppm
and nitrite - .25

everything else looked right on that one
and then on the one from the other night
nitrate - 5-10
nitrite - .25

sorry i know me mixing up the results doesnt help you help me!

[Skurvey Dog]

Hello Ray. Sorry to hear about your troubles. If I'm understanding your previous posts, you initially only set up your tank a few weeks ago? Did you allow your system to fully "Complete" it's initial cycle before adding inhabitants that will increase the bio load before it had a chance to stabalize and develop? Just curious. For you to be showing a nitrite reading leads me to believe that you just might have something decomposing in there that needs to be removed, which also could contribute to the extra nutrients which might be feeding some of the algaes. Just looking at the span of 1 week nitrate readings leads me to believe that you have done some tank maintenance and a water change in between readings, which is very good. Wisely monitoring your feeding is good also. Always try to remove any uneaten food. There may be a possibilty that you are having a mini cycle as the tank is trying to mature and adjust to it's inhabitants. Be faithful with your water changes as water quality is top priority, especially with invertibrates. May I suggest that you manually try to remove as much of the algea/cyno as you can along and along. Also if you can direct good water circulation and flow towards those areas with the greatest nuisance growth. Keeping particles suspended into the water column so that the skimmer can remove them. Also, if you can change some of your water flow, perhaps if there is something decomposing, that you have yet been able to locate, it will become dislodged where you might be able to see it. I would not add anything else to my tank at this time, as to do so will only increase the current difficulties that you are experiencing. Water changes and tank readings are very important at this time. You will be able to know exactly what is taking place in there and hopefully have nothing jump out and surprise you right now.

[Skurvey Dog]

And Ray, one more thing. I luv ya boyo, but please do not purchase another horseshoe crab unless you have a monster tank. I full well understand your fascination and joy that you experienced as they are magnificent animals. I just have no idea what possesses the LFS to sell such beautiful and fascinating creatures that the normal marine hobbiest is not capable of properly taking care of. It has no reflection on you or any other hobbiest. I myself can not/will not own one as I can not provide their basic needs for survival. They do not stay very small for long. Unless you have purchased some mini horseshoe crab that I am unfamiliar with. And of course that very well could be the case. If that is the case, I humbly apologize in advance. The H crabs that I am familiar with require exhorbant amounts of swimming room and sand bed area to lead a healthy, happy life. The only places that I have ever seen them prosper was at various marine facilities which have all tanks designed to meet each individual species' needs. I just wanted to spare you any future heart ache and grief and remain faithful to my aquatic brothers and sisters who have no voice in which to speak.

[Raygunn]

Hmm... i think this was more bad advice from my LFS then (which they seem to be full of if it means making a sale) so i'll try to stay away from anymore Horse shoe crabs...

and actually from your first post my tank has been set up since may 1st so its about 2 1/2 months old... so it has cycled...
i moved some of my powerheads today so i'll see what that does... and i also removed as much of the algae as i really could...
what do you recommend for stirring up the sand other than the horse shoe crab? cause he did a heck of a job and was VERY exciting to watch...

i found another dead Emerald crab today... and the remnants of a porcelain crabs claw... saddest ever...

and i've talked to everyone i know that i trust a bit about this problem... just can't figure it out...

on the positive i seem to be pretty good at growing algae... a few more weeks of this and all my inverts will be gone and i can really focus on what seems to be my true calling... algae farmer!

[Skurvey Dog]

Hmm... i think this was more bad advice from my  LFS then (which they seem to be full of if it means making a sale) so i'll try to stay away from anymore Horse shoe crabs...

There are alot of "Bad" and "Good" LFS, if we can call them that. It is more of different breeds of people. Worshipping the almighty dollar w/o regards to accountability and good stewardship, uninformed store help who are also learning the marine hobby, and honest, well informed marine hobbiest. And with time you will recognize them also. Never ever make an IMPULSE livestock purchase. You can find yourself in trouble fast. Zip home and research, research, research. Then decide if you are right for the creature. If you've done your homework and it is a match and you still want it, go for it.

and actually from your first post my tank has been set up since may 1st so its about 2 1/2 months old... so it has cycled...

Sorry I couldn't remember exactly how long your DT had been up. Thanks for filling in my memory loss there. You still have a very fragile eco system there that is trying to mature.

i moved some of my powerheads today so i'll see what that does... and i also removed as much of the algae as i really could...

It's good to change up your water flow now and then. I hope that this will help control the algaes from spreading and also help you find any foreign matter that may still be in there. Continue to manually remove as much algae as you can. Every bit helps.

what do you recommend for stirring up the sand other than the horse shoe crab? cause he did a heck of a job and was VERY exciting to watch...

At the present moment, until you can get your water parameters in check, I would not add anything at all. To do so will multiply the current problems you are having. You need to stay on top of water changes and mechanical maintence to begin to read zero for nitrites and get those nitrates lowered as they are a killing machine for invertebrates. You don't want to increase the bio load right now, you want to stabalize it and hold it there. Give those animals that you have in there time to heal. Different varieties of hermit crabs are good, as well as the sand sifting snails. I personally do not like hermits due to my corals, but others adore them. I guess it is a personal preference. Others can advise you on what species are best. I prefer snails myself.

i found another dead Emerald crab today... and the remnants of a porcelain crabs claw... saddest ever...

and i've talked to everyone i know that i trust a bit about this problem... just can't figure it out...

on the positive i seem to be pretty good at growing algae... a few more weeks of this and all my inverts will be gone and i can really focus on what seems to be my true calling... algae farmer!

Sometimes we never figure out what made things go South. We just have to take the current situation and knowledge we have presented to us and go from there. I have had my own trials and errors and so has everyone else here in our family on TR. That's what makes this hobby so interesting and a challenge. If it were so easy, everyone who be doing it!

I love your humorous, positive attitude and it will take you VERY FAR my friend. Buck up and chin up! This is just a temporary, minor setback. Nothing more. This is just one more learning curve in your memoirs on reefing. Everyone has issues here and there during the first year as their tanks are maturing and growing.

[Raygunn]

yeah i've tried to be good about checking things out before i go in there... fortunatly i have a guy an hour away that tells me when he thinkis im making a mistake or tells me why he doesn't like certain things etc... so he has been a bunch of help... and he sells stuff... so i think im going to try to just stay getting things from him... he won't let me get things if he hasnt had them for at least a week and he feels like they are in good health and he gives me alot of info on them... so ive been doing research on stuff then talking to him about them... but the horse shoe was an impulse at a different store...

yeah its still real young...

now sometimes ive found that every now and then in this hobby means every 6 months and other times it means every few days! haha... which is this about the power heads?

i wasnt planning on getting anything else for a little while... i was just wondering when the time comes what would be good...

man its so frustrating seeing all the little guys go belly up... i want to know what to do to protect them!

[Skurvey Dog]

Hello Ray! I can full well understand your frustration as you muddle your way through with your figuratively speaking "instructions manual" if you will, which a term in my household is claimed as "just another man's opinion." As your knowledge base and experience expands, thus the narrowing of room for common errors will take place. Just stick with the basics and some common sense. Water quality testing is a mainstay as it will reveal the basis of tank health just as labs reveals normalicies in human blood test. When you see something rearing it's ugly head, head it off at the pass. Take corrective action before it takes hold and fully manifest itself. It is good that you personally know someone who knows your current system and status and is a good steward of marine resources. But it is also your responsibility to follow up on his information in regards to your little piece of paradise also.

Lol, so every now and then means 6 months eh? Don't take it to heart. Our little piece of the marine world is growing, maturing and adapting to their current environment as best they can. They will always have to be tweeked now and then. Mechanical items break down and slowly lose their efficiency, the aquascaping soon becomes overcrowded or loses it's appeal. There's always something to keep the hobbiest entertained, challenged and planning for the future. We always have to take 5 steps forward and two steps back as we slowly make some progress. Such is the way of the world.

When I had mentioned changing some of the water flow or current in the tank, I was referring to powerheads or some other devise that you are using. I have 2 #3 Koralia power heads in my large DT, which I switch up all the time to change things up and to keep my tank clean and help the skimmer do it's job. I also like to turn them on when I introduce nutrients into the tank to get it mixed well and then cut them off for feeding time.

Have your readings across the board stabalized and has the algae growth stopped spreading?