Need some advice on nitrates & filtering

[kalmarrin]

Hi - I'm new to your forum and have been reading all the different posts on nitrate removal, etc. I, too, have a nitrate problem. Have had for a long time. But, I'm very torn about the things I've read, such as only feeding rarely or every couple of days, etc. I have been reading 'The Reef Aquarium', by Julian Sprung and it seems that he feels they should be fed well - not sparsely. My fish are very healthy - not fat - but I do feed a combo of mysis, emerald entree & brine shrimp once a day with a turkey baster. I feed them what they easily eat in 5 minutes.

I have a 120 gallon reef tank. A few new corals (two small acropora; a large donut coral,;a large hammer; a small hammer; various mushrooms that have all come from the same patch of mushrooms that I bought 2 years ago; one sun coral and several xenia that have all come from one small branch that a fish store manager in Miami gave me two months ago. I also have 5 pretty large rose anemones and one baby one. The largest is about 8" when fully open. The others around between 4 & 7 inches when open. These have all come from my orignal rose that I bought back in 2004. I know that people say they only split when stressed, but they have been around for over a year - except for the baby - and they are full and healthy-looking...to me, anyway.

I have 7 fish...most of which I've had for over a year. A Naso, a Kole, a very large maroon clown, a sand-sifting goby, a flame hawk, a copper-banded butterfly (newest addition for aptaisia control), and a male renses wrasse. I have one large banded shrimp and a couple of peppermint shrimp that have no appetite for aptasia.

I have a Turbofloater 1000. I have a UV filter that comes on with my halides only. I have a Coralife AquaPro 48" light with 150w, 14k halides, two actinics and three moonlights. I cycle my actinics on at 7 am, halides on at 9 am and off at 6 pm, and actinics off at 8, then moonlights. I use the regular filter material that I buy in a roll for my sump. I do not have bioballs. I change filters about 3 times a week, and clean my skimmer the same. I have calerpa in the bottom left chamber of my sump (only a week) with a light on 9 hours a day. I do 25-30 gallon water changes twice a month, and I use the Marin Reef salt. In my new water, I also bring the pH up to 8.4 before I change the water. I have a counter top RO/Di filter for my fresh water top-off.

My calcium stays between 420 and 500 without any supplements. My pH is usually right at 8.2 to 8.4. I do not check much else, other than nitrates. I use a test strip every other day as a quick test, and my water is always 'hard'. I'm still trying hard to get the hang of these chemical aspect of this. I have recently started using Marine Snow and Purple Up. I add 5 drops of Lugols iodine every week. That's about it.

I know this is a long post, but I knew you'd all be asking about what I had, etc., so I thought I'd put it all right here. I am just starting to collect frags - small and affordable. I have to get these nitrates down, but I just don't know how. I would appreciate any advice you can give.

Pam

[doctorthompson]

Welcome to Talking Reef!

What size is your sump and how much water is in it? A few weeks ago I hooked up a small rubbermaid with an ~8" sand bed in it to our system and it finally "kicked in" a few days ago and is doing wonders for the nitrate levels -- from an average of 30ppm down to around 10ppm this morning. I've seen others do it with a 5 gallon bucket filled with 60 lbs. of sand and a bulkhead drilled into the bucket a couple inches above the top of the sand so the water can drain out and into the sump.

Just my $0.02, if you hit search Google for "remote deep sand bed" you'll find a lot more info on them.

[wwest]

A friend of mine has a 125gal tank as well. He is also having a Nitrate problem. The only thing we have found that works for his is 10% water changes every 7 days and before we/he changes the water we clean all the equipment. it seems to be bringing the nitrates down some. Now with a tank that big in order to do it right without causing shock to the inhabitants it takes time to get them down. So i wish you the best of luck getting your down.


My Responses are my opinion and experience only.

I'm very torn about the things I've read, such as only feeding rarely or every couple of days, etc.

When i started this hobby i fed everyday, and to be honest i think i was over feeding. Now i feed every other day and it seems like my tank is a lot more stable then it was when i fed everyday. I have heard of a lot of people running into problems when feeding everyday such as hair algae and red slime. I have experienced both but i haven't had sign of them since i started feeding every other day.

but I do feed a combo of mysis, emerald entree & brine shrimp once a day with a turkey baster. I feed them what they easily eat in 5 minutes.

As for what to feed, Fish like a variety of foods. I mix mine up from squid, mysis and brine. I also threw some brine shrimp eggs in there every now and then. Basically whatever you decide to feed them they will like. But remember we like like variety and they do too.

I use a test strip every other day as a quick test, and my water is always 'hard'.

OK i thought the test strips would be a good idea as well so i purchased some. I didn't want to rely on them until i knew what kind of reading i got. So what i did was test the water 10 times with the strips and 2 with different liquid test kits. The results shown that the test strips were a different color each time and at no time was any of the 10 strips the same reading as the 2 liquid test kits. It takes a little longer with the liquid kits but i wouldn't rely on the test strips.

Also when you "hard" are you referring to GH General Hardness?

I know this is a long post, but I knew you'd all be asking about what I had, etc., so I thought I'd put it all right here. I am just starting to collect frags - small and affordable. I have to get these nitrates down, but I just don't know how. I would appreciate any advice you can give.

I really like how you posted all the info and I'm sure everyone on TR feels the same.

When you say your Nitrates are high. How high are we talking?

Also i didn't see it in the post but are you running any mechanical filtration?

[CarmieJo]

Hi Pam,

to TR. It sounds like you are doing a lot right. Have you tested your RO/DI water to see if it is the source of your nitrate?

I used to feed every other day. I mix mysis, flake, cyclopeeze, homemade, brine shrimp pellets and DT Phyto. I acquired a frag of dendronephthya by mistake and have started feed cyclopeeze & DT everyday. My nitrate levels went up from 7 to 10 but the biggest difference I see is that I am battling HA again. On the other hand the dendronephthya is thriving. I told you all of this to say that I do think that feeding has a lot to do with nutrient level.

My solution has been to bump up my H2O changes from 10%/week to 15%. So far my nitrate has dropped back down but the algae is still a problem. Interestingly enough my snail population has also bloomed.

BTW, I recommend not dosing anything you aren't testing for.

Like Wes, I appreciate that you took the time to tell us about your tank so that we didn't have to go digging for the info.

[kalmarrin]

Well - thank you all for your posts. I'll try to answer them all in this post so as not to clog the works with inidividual replies.

This didn't occur to me to mention, but in the last week or so I have been feeding Oyster Eggs for my newly aquired corals; as well as a small sliver of cyclopese about every three days. I never thought that those could be a problem. I feed the suggested amount and turn off the protein skimmer for an hour or two afterward. Maybe that's some of it.

I've been worried about my little copperbanded butterfly, which is the main reason I've been feeding a bit more...he's already so skinny (we call him Pancake), but he's eating well. I don't know the physiology of fish enough to know when starvation sets in (smile), but they always seem so hungry. My roommate always reminds me that they're just 'swimming'...ha! Well....

I'm curious now about the test strips...perhaps I'll do my own test. Now, I have checked the pH with a real kit and it's usually very close. I do check my calcium about every two weeks - mostly because it's always the same without me even trying. It's a mystery. The hardness is the alk - I believe. I don't know how big my sump is, honestly, but my LFS guy that sold it to me may remember. It's not big enough to fill the whole underside of my cabinet. As a matter of fact, it seems a bit small compared to some that I've seen.

I'm intrigued about adding the extra sand-bed. I do have some room beside my sump, now that I finally got all of my lighting cords, wires and mess out from under, and put my skimmer in my sump. I probably have room for a real refugium....would that be better, or is filltering through a thick layer of sand better?

I do not have an algae problem - except when I first got my lights - had a bit of a bloom (green coloration on white live rock surfaces, etc.)...and every once in a blue moon I'll get what I think is hair algae growing out of the slits in the tops of my returns. I put a few snails in there and that helped. Every once in a while I'll get a tiny amount of the red slime along my sand bed against the glass....but even that has gone away with my more frequent water changes.

I just ordered like 150 various snails, crabs, etc. to add to my tank...hoping that will help with the detritus some.

I'd be very interested in anyone's opinion about refugiums vs the sand bed.

One last thing that I forgot to mention. I recently replaced my Maxi-jet powerheads with SEIO's....maybe a little overkill....I have two 620gph and two 820gph. I'm still having a bit of a challenge over placement, but, as I'm waiting for a new ballast to replace a blown one and dealing with only one halide right now, my tank is a bit lop-sided coral-wise, trying to keep everyone happy. But, I may be asking about that topic next.

I hope I answered everyone's questions. I'll check into the sump size. I'll get a very small turkey baster (lol) so I'm feeding less but fee like I'm feeding a normal amount....it must be a psychological thing or something. I appreciate all of you...very nice forum...and, just in case anyone reads this that lives near or around Atlanta, I am very interested in seeing other folks' tanks and stuff. I'm really in a learning frenzy I think....but, I would love to meet some local folks. I only know one other fellow who lives near me that's a salt water aquarist. Thanks again. Pam

[wwest]

I'm intrigued about adding the extra sand-bed. I do have some room beside my sump, now that I finally got all of my lighting cords, wires and mess out from under, and put my skimmer in my sump. I probably have room for a real refugium....would that be better, or is filltering through a thick layer of sand better?

Added more sand always helps,( in most opinions ) The sand will help filter the nitrates. Im a big fan of DSB's I think they help the tank and for some reason i think they make the tank look good too.

What all do you test for?

[kalmarrin]

I'm not great at testing, but I've been trying to be better lately. I test my pH about every 2 days. I test my calcium about once every 2 weeks. It is almost always at 420 - 480 or something like that. (I'm starting to keep a log this week because my memory is gone). I use a test strip, as I mentioned earlier, but may stop that since they aren't really reliable. I test for nitrates and my alk. Honestly, I've been using the test strip more than anything just for a quickie, and taking my water to my LFS more than anything the last two months. I hate to admit it, but I find some of those kits (like the magnesium) to be a royal pain, so I avoid them. I know that's bad, and my new year resolution will be to correct that behavior (smile). I do have the big 'master' test kit, but it's over a year old and I'm not sure if I can buy new chemicals for it - but, perhaps I should look into that.

[wwest]

Thats cool, Yea i hate testing for Mag and iodine. I mean come on you prepare for 15 minutes and then test for 2 lol but its something i have to do..

I would check the dates stamped on the test kit bottles. If they are bad i would consider buying a new kit.