a few days ago I went to my lfs, I consider myself lucky I have 8 of them that deal with reef tanks all in 15min driving range and they have a huge selection. anyway, I was talking to one of the guys and he was saying not to go with a deep sand bed. I looked at his set up and he had a wet/ dry filter with bioballs???????
He said that in the long run dsb's can be more truble than they are worth.
Does any one have any idea what he was talking about?
When I first got into reef keeping I had a WD with bioballs and my tanks were thriving too, but I always struggled with high nitrates. When I removed the bioballs I noticed the nitrates went down almost to non existence. If you have a wet dry and want to use it fill it with live rock or turn it into a refugium. I am sure you will find many will agree with me that bioballs are not the way to go with a reeftank, they are nitrate factories. As for DSB I am just now trying out a RDSB in my refugium. You will always find some favor DSB, barebottoms, and SSB. They all have their benefits and there down sides you just need to figure out which is best for you. You may want to state what type of tank you are trying to set up (size, what your trying to keep,etc.)
ive seen a few LFS with some new gear of old ideas! like a return pump blowing bubbles & bio tower central setups, ive done abit of research on the matter of bacteria that live in the zones of the seabed, or in our case a DSD, it all comes down to the bacteria within these beds! its also a rob peter to pay paul situation, cause its not benicial to be poking around in it to often, but u need to clean it so it doesn't slowly crash on you!
it was definately a reef tank at your LFS, not a FO?
did u see if he was running a de-nitrate tank?
did he have a BBottom instead?
I am sure you will find many will agree with me that bioballs are not the way to go with a reeftank, they are nitrate factories.
Everyone that knows me on TR (I could be infamous other places, too. ) knows I'm a DSB kind of guy. I also like to talk/teach in straight, correct terminology when ever possible. I had a great discussion one day with a guy who insisted that Bio Balls were a Nitrate factory. After much discussion he conceded the terminology was wrong but, the end result was the same, Nitrate out of control. In short.......
It isn't that Bio Balls are a Nitrate factory at all. Bio Balls provide a huge surface area for aerobic bacteria to grow to perform their important task of converting Ammonia to Nitrite and Nitrite to Nitrate. The problem starts right there! Bio Balls do not provide the correct environment for anaerobic bacteria to grow. Anaerobic bacteria consume the Nitrate produced by the Nitrogen cycle and convert it to Nitrogen gas. They can only grow in an oxygen depleted environment, eg, a DSB of 4" or more. So you have to find a way to get rid of excess Nitrates using a wet/dry filter. Some do water changes but find they can't get the Nitrates down enough because the amount being produced in the system is greater than simple dilution can get rid of. For awhile, years ago, people tried de-nitraters but, found them to be problematic and unreliable. Wet/dry filtration works great for a FOWL tank because fish have a higher tolerance of Nitrates than corals, clams and other invertebrates. Yet, it has been shown that a low level of Nitrates is beneficial, even necessary. That corals and clams utilize Nitrates in their matabolic process. So, you don't want 0 Nitrates but somewhere around 5 to 10ppm is beneficial.
For anyone interested in learning how I set up and maintain my DSBs over a long period of time, go to my thread on the 135 I set up a few months ago - here - Amphibious' 135 gal Reef
__________________ Amphibious
Reaching my 70th BD, I realize that I cannot help but grow old. However, I refuse to grow up!!! My wife would tell you, "He may be 70 but, He's going on 17". Life is wonderful with a woman like that.
That corals and clams utilize Nitrates in their metabolic process. So, you don't want 0 Nitrates but somewhere around 5 to 10ppm is beneficial.
Dick,
you know i respect you, so don't take this negative as i want to understand...
i do know that clams will consume larger amounts of nitrates, but my understanding is that nitrate levels found in the wild are measured in the ppt. i agree that they should not truly be zero, but i have always preached that they should be undetectable on a hobby test kit. and this is where i mantain mine.
i understand that a reading of approx 5ppm can be tolerated by most inhabitants, 10 is even ok, in my cases, but i start having issues at anythign over 15-20 ppm.
Have you found a "positive improvement" in having a nitrate reading of 5-10 ppm versus having it be undetectable on a hobby test kit?
again, just trying to understand
thanks..
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Dick,
you know i respect you, so don't take this negative as i want to understand...
i do know that clams will consume larger amounts of nitrates, but my understanding is that nitrate levels found in the wild are measured in the ppt. i agree that they should not truly be zero, but i have always preached that they should be undetectable on a hobby test kit. and this is where i maintain mine.
i understand that a reading of approx 5ppm can be tolerated by most inhabitants, 10 is even ok, in my cases, but i start having issues at anythign over 15-20 ppm.
Have you found a "positive improvement" in having a nitrate reading of 5-10 ppm versus having it be undetectable on a hobby test kit?
again, just trying to understand
thanks..
I'm not taking this negatively because you've said nothing negative.
For the life of me I can't remember what speaker advocated low Nitrates in our reef tanks. I'm sure it was at a MACNA. Possibly Borneman or Calfo, I just can't remember but, I was surprised and that's why it stuck with me. I'll look through my library and if I find it I'll let you know.
I'm not advocating anything above 10ppm. If you look at my post, your quote of my post and even your response, each mentions 5 to 10 is OK. Anything over that is not OK except in a FO tank perhaps.
No, I can't say I've found measurable amounts of positive improvement in allowing Nitrates of 5 to 10 accumulate. On the other side, I haven't found anything detrimental either. All I'm saying is, we strive for 0ppm in Am and Nitrite and it's relatively easy to do. Nitrate on the other hand can be a little harder to maintain at 0ppm and there is no reason to go through a lot of hassle trying to nail 0ppm when it has been proven that certain animals we maintain utilize and benefit from low amounts of Nitrate.
I allow low levels on Nitrate (5 to 10ppm) to remain in my aquariums and everything seems quite healthy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
my understanding is that nitrate levels found in the wild are measured in the ppt
Is this a typo or do you mean something other than parts per thousand? I'm confused.
Dick
__________________ Amphibious
Reaching my 70th BD, I realize that I cannot help but grow old. However, I refuse to grow up!!! My wife would tell you, "He may be 70 but, He's going on 17". Life is wonderful with a woman like that.
i was once told by a chemist that if one was to take a bucket of seawater and test it or refine it enough, every single compound found on the planet will be present.
i was once told by a chemist that if one was to take a bucket of seawater and test it or refine it enough, every single compound found on the planet will be present.
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