stock i need to set up a dsb

[Reef Gizmo]

Hello

can any one tell me what do i need to set up a dsb (sand size ) do i need live sand to seed the sand bed or will the criter in the live rock will do


i plan on introducing the dsb in my 77 gal so how many sand do i need to do this

48x16x20

[V]

well as far as im concerned, live critters come from the LR u place on top, & live sand can seed your DSB faster! as for how much others can give advice with a chime in, cause i think its personal choice with the depth of the bed in the first place

[fishcounter]

How long and wide is your tank? Typically, anything above 4" in depth is considered a DSB. If you want, here is a cool calculator that will give you an idea of how many pounds of sand to by:
http://reefcentral.com/calc/SandBed.php

[Rob]

i would recommend you start with about 5-6 inches, because once it settles you will loose and inch or so, and over time it will continue to shrink slightly.

use fine sugar grain sized sand, like play sand, try to use aragonite.

as for seeding, don't bother with commercial "live sand" as im mostly convinced its a waste. instead use dead sand, and seed it with either LS from and established tank, or allow our LR to seed it (which it will do)

also keep in mind it can take 3-6 months for a DSB to become efficient and useful.

as for other critters, its important to have various snails, crabs, or other small burrowing critters that will do some stirring. this is what allows the water exchange to take place more efficiently. (snails AND crabs are not required, but you should have something that will accomplish this goal)

its also important that one the sand bed is going, period tampering is needed to maintain it. meaning monthly you should poke it move it, or mix up small portions of the DSB. a method Amphibious recommended was to use rigid airline tubing and prod the DSB all the way to the bottom.

i have found that this provides stability to the DSB (when done in small section/amounts) and some additional food for filter feeders.

and while it might be anecdotal, when i perform this, i notice that my water always gets much clearer after this..

[fishcounter]

I thought we were not supposed to touch the deep sandbed??? What does mixing up small portions accomplish?

[dreams]

yes, can we get a clarification on the poking of the sandbed?

[Rob]

poking or periodic sand bed mixing help release an toxins that start to build up and allows certain areas to get a "refresh" this also releases "food" into the water that is eaten by various filter feeders, and corals.

a DSB has to be maintained.. failure to do so would be like having a BB tank and not ever cleaning it

[dreams]

i thought the whole purpose of the DSB was to create low & high oxygen areas...if you are stirring up the bed, then aren't you eliminating what you are trying to create

everything i have read says that most problems sare created by poor husbandry and not by the DSB....overstocking, overfeeding, low flow, too many dead spots

i have read that stirring up the top 1/2 inch is good for the corals, but even that is optional

[Rob]

well, im not going to say that this is "fact" but here is how i see it.

first off, husbandry is what you do in your tank, it includes

DSB...overstocking, overfeeding, low flow, too many dead spots

all of these things ARE husbandry...
everything you do is husbandry.

i know these are not "your words" so dont take this as personal, but
saying

most problems are created by poor husbandry and not by the DSB...overstocking, overfeeding, low flow, too many dead spots

is like saying your dog is sick because you dont take care of him, and not because of what you feed it, the house it lives in, the amount of water it gets, or the tick it got when you let it run through the woods.

husbandry IS by definition: The care of animals (or plants)

why is this said?
personally i think its an easy out when an real answer isn't known.
i mean if i tell you you problem is "bad husbandry" what are you going to do to fix it.... see my point?

i think this is said by people that either dont know, or dont want to admit that they, or there method is not perfect. i mean look, im a DSB advocate, but if not done right it can be a problem. just like a BB or SSB, if not done right it can be a problem

when i say disruptions are good for a DSB, i am referring to small isolated disruption. as in poking and prodding areas or stirring up the sand bed in a small area. i do not mean turn over all the sand in the front of your tank.

see in a DSB there are allot of potentially bad things that can get built up in there, and if they are slowly released over time, eventually they will come out, and if not released slowly in small amounts they will come out at once in large amounts.

if you remember back many months ago i did a show on tank maturity (show 12) and this was one of the things that was brought up.

many people have said that you should not touch your DSB, i think that over time it has been shown that if you follow this your DSB will cause a tank crash, and this is what most BB advocates (with closed minds) use as a crutch to say that DSB "are bad". but if you perform maintenance, buy mixing up small areas or disturbing small areas its currently believed that you can prevent these potential crashes.

just remember that methodologies evolve as people learn more, and i think this is one of those methodologies that is "evolving"

many people say that you use a DSB because thats whats done in nature.. and this is true.. the "sand bed" in nature is deep, but remember that new layers are constantly being laid down, and those potentially harmfully "things" are buried deeper and deeper to be processed in ways we can not replicate.

[fat walrus]

Originally Posted by dreams

i thought the whole purpose of the DSB was to create low & high oxygen areas...if you are stirring up the bed, then aren't you eliminating what you are trying to create

everything i have read says that most problems sare created by poor husbandry and not by the DSB....overstocking, overfeeding, low flow, too many dead spots

i have read that stirring up the top 1/2 inch is good for the corals, but even that is optional

you only work a small patch of sand at a time. the poking is also a way to release built-up gases before it becomes an issue. you are not supposed to disturb too deep.

[dreams]

rob, i am hearing what you are saying....but, my bed is extremely new and i can see where it is natually cleaning itself out.....all day long bubbles are being released into the water column.....

wouldn't stirring being trying to create that artificially?.....which i could see if one were to see a problem

but, even then, you can only "clean out" so much of that stuff, wouldn't there still be a problem under the LR, especially if you have the rock sitting directly on the SB?

[dreams]

lol....walrus you sniped me:-)

[Rob]

those bubble you are seeing are nitrogen bubbles, and are the sand bed properly denitrafying the water. there are many other things that are created and not as easily released from the sand bed, so no you are not interfering with this.. they are two separate things

as far as not being able to get under the LR, yes this is true, but when you clear out these small areas it allow the rest of it to disperse via an osmosis type process