Brown, Mushroom-like Algae?

[Polks]

Hi,

Pretty new to saltwater, and in recent months purchased my first pieces of live rock for my new tank. I have a few questions:
1. How can you tell the rock still is "alive" (I know not really alive)? Just if it still has color?
2. Algae - I was happy when things started to grow on it, but now I'm concerned whether they are good or bad - please see the pic - the most prevalent growth is now a brown, mushroom-like algae. There are a few spots of small, green bubbles, and a few strands of green algae.
3. Since LR benefits from light, how do you manage the fact that some LR has to be underneath other pieces? Periodic Rotation?

FYI - this rock is from Southern Japan, Okinawa (I live in Tokyo).

Thanks.

[rayme07]

Hi Polks Welcome to TR.

I'm sorry but I cant really tell what it is with the pic is there a way you could get a closer pic if you don't mind. :D I have a few questions for you. How big is your tank? How much live rock did you add to the tank at one time? And how old is your tank? Thanks :)

[lReef lKeeper]

the green bubbles are bubble algae ... i would highly suggest taking the rock out of the tank, scrubbing ALL of the bubbles off with a stiff scrub brush, rinsing the rock in saltwater NOT going into the tank, and replacing the rock in the tank. that type of algae will take over a tank if you pop the bubbles in the tank water. when popped, the bubble release spores that attach to the rock and besides "cooking" the rock, removal is VERY difficult.

i cant remember what the "mushroom" algae is called, but it is nowhere near as difficult as the bubble algae, and i would not really worry about it, unless it starts getting out of control.

[Skurvey Dog]

Hello Polks and :welcome: to TR! Live rock is alive because of the life, or bacteria colonies that live inside of the rock and life that lives on it. In time, with good water parameters and lighting, the LR should color up nicely. There is no need to rotate your LR around to "keep it alive" as it is alive, even though it may not be as colorful as other areas. Keep good circulation in the tank to prevent dead zones and detrius from accumulating.

[CarmieJo]

Hi Polks and welcome to TR! The strands of green algae are likely hair algae. I too can't remember what the brown plating algae is called but it is usually not a problem. Are you using RO/DI water in your tank?

[Polks]

Thanks for all the quick responses! I'll try to respond to all comments in one message.

I will:

Remove green bubbles
Leave the Brown, plate-like algae shouldn't be a problem (but it is spreading...does its growth somehow block the growth of coraline algae (I think the pink stuff)?) I've added a close-up photo of it.
(edit: it looks brown, but Ive seen similar pictures being described as "red coraline plate algae..." http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explorations/03mex/background/seaweeds/media/fig2_dive1103.html

Leave the Hair-like Green algae, as also shouldn't be a problem.
Buy a calcium reader & calcium supplements, based on online research for LR health..


Tank History:

Began in early January, added fish in Feb & March
(2 damsels to start, but 1 killed the other. Added Bicolor Angel, then 2 perculas, but were surprisingly killed by the BiColor, nipping at their tails (I rescued them too late). Replaced with 1 Gold stripe maroon clown. Added a Lawnmower/algae Blenny + 4 snails to take care of algae, which have been doing a good job.). At this point, Damsel & Clown are about 1.5 in, and Bicolor is 2. Blenny is 2+.

LR was added only as an afterthought since I'd never tried before - 2 pieces (I guess just a few lbs each) first in Feb, then 2 more in April, as the first 2 seemed to be doing OK. In the pic you can check the size - 40 USD each! Japan pricing.


Filtration/Size:

Tank is about 30 gallons.
1 Aquaclear 200 hang-on (200 gph) + carbon pouch
1 Aquaclear 50 Powerhead (250 gph w/ air) connected to U/G filter
1 cannister filter (china off-brand, called Kotobuki Power Box 55) ( estimate it's about 80-100 gph)
. I have Carbon & the Ceramic nuggets in there
1 very basic protein skimmer w/ airstone

Considering adding a detached powerhead, to increase circulation - any comments on the fish getting sucked up in there? I read about adding an attachment, etc., but seems like most people just leave it open. Other option is just to hook it up to the U/G filter.

I'm not using RO/DI water - should I? ...

Lighting is:

"Aquagem T5 4T5HO-60 cm"
"24W x 4 lights"


Any general advice on any piece of equipment is appreciated! It's tough here, as I don't speak Japanese, so can't really get tips from the LFS here! I'll be going to the US for a trip soon, and don't mind hauling some prime equipment back...

[CarmieJo]

I like how your tank looks! Here are a couple comments: Here in the states UG filters are not used for SW tanks any more and I would really recommend removing it as you will always fight nitrates. Adding the LR was a good thing! It looks like the substrate is very coarse. I would recommend replacing it with sand as detritus tends to accumulate in the crevices and this also raises nitrates. I would slowly remove the ceramic nuggets from the cannister filter as they also raise nitrates.

I think the algae in the NOAA picture is a hard coralline algae and I am thinking that the brown algae you have is softer. It may compete with coralline for space on the rocks. You can probably siphon it out as you do water changes. You may have to scrape with the end of the siphon tube to get it loose.

[7perseo7]

welcome to the hobby,but even if you don't speak Japanese you can research on google get pictures of what you want and take it to the LFS. i don't know where in japan you are but they have some good deals and products there.since you will also need other things you can make picture cards. it worked for me. Lol

[CarmieJo]

Look at Lobophora here The Brown Algae (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brnalgae.htm) and see if that is your algae.

[Polks]

Thank you - that looks like the same algae growth.

Any experience with it? Good / Bad? Since I originally posted, I scrubbed down the rocks, and the growth has slowed.

Meanwhile, the green, hair algae has spread (slowly) from the LR to the glass.

I also found 2 new specimens - I welcome any info on what these are - THANKS:
1st pic: A soft, yellow and maroon thing - it can move too... it deflates when out of water.
2nd pic: pink, branching type of plant...
3rd pic: overall pic of both.

Thanks!

[CarmieJo]

How big are they? Does the plant type thing have any polyps?

[Polks]

For size:
#1, the soft thing: is only 1-1.5 cm in diameter, maybe a bit less in height. Don't see any polyp-type things on it... just looks like a mini volcano...

#2, branch thing is small... like .75 cm or so..

Attached is another specimen I found (2 of them). After I bought my last LR a few weeks ago, I noticed some nasties on the glass. 1 was like the attached white, oval, ancient -pod type organism. Another was a tape worm like creature, white, 2 inches long! I killed both. Now I found 2 more live -pod things on this rock, but removed them already. I just assumed they were bad news... Any comments?

[CarmieJo]

I am not sure about the volcano. The pink thing looks like a calcareous macro algae of some sort. Do the white pod things look like snails without shells? If so they are stomatella snails and are good to have.

[Polks]

I don't think they are snails w/o shells, as they have no antennae...

They have a hard shell, white colored, which is segmented. Other than that, I'm not sure what they are composed of... I just viewed them as foreign....

[CarmieJo]

Maybe a chiton? I have not had them so can't be sure. I think that some are algae grazers and others are predatory.

[Polks]

Hi,

I just checked online for Chiton, and I'm pretty sure that was it. Too bad I "discarded" them out of fear. Perhaps there are still more.

Thanks for the great sleuthing. You guys know a lot.

[CarmieJo]

You can always QT little things like that in a cup of SW until you can get an answer.

[lance]

Hi,

Pretty new to saltwater, and in recent months purchased my first pieces of live rock for my new tank. I have a few questions:
1. How can you tell the rock still is "alive" (I know not really alive)? Just if it still has color?
2. Algae - I was happy when things started to grow on it, but now I'm concerned whether they are good or bad - please see the pic - the most prevalent growth is now a brown, mushroom-like algae. There are a few spots of small, green bubbles, and a few strands of green algae.
3. Since LR benefits from light, how do you manage the fact that some LR has to be underneath other pieces? Periodic Rotation?

FYI - this rock is from Southern Japan, Okinawa (I live in Tokyo).

Thanks.

If the rock was dead it would be black and smell REALLY bad.
the algae your discribing sound's like diatom starting is the tank new?
after you place your LR don't move it you'll mess with the cycling some part's will alway's be shaded but that is no biggie your amphipods, bristleworms, etc.. will like the shelter and shaded area some feather-duster's like to grow on those parts as well. Hope this helped

lance

[7perseo7]

Hi, Again,here is a link to a video of a bristle worm, i always remove them from the rock,in the japan area they are plentiful, most pods are ok since the fish will eat them, if there is a lot of food there will be a lot of them but if you don't feed your fish a lot they multiply less.
MOV024.flv video by medusa77_photo - Photobucket (http://s696.photobucket.com/albums/vv327/medusa77_photo/?action=view&current=MOV024.flv)

[lance]

Hi, Again,here is a link to a video of a bristle worm, i always remove them from the rock,in the japan area they are plentiful, most pods are ok since the fish will eat them, if there is a lot of food there will be a lot of them but if you don't feed your fish a lot they multiply less.
MOV024.flv video by medusa77_photo - Photobucket (http://s696.photobucket.com/albums/vv327/medusa77_photo/?action=view&current=MOV024.flv)

love the video what did kind of camera you use to film it?

lance

[7perseo7]

I Got this at Walmart it's called EYECLOPS it has a USB card and batteries so i can take it to the sides of the tank i modified it to work inside the tank so i can record what goes on inside with 100X,200X 400X (not sponsored by them) Lol. it helps a lot when working with algae,polips and pods.

[CarmieJo]

That is a great vid. Most bristleworms are beneficial detrivores.

[Polks]

Hi,

I don't have experience with Bristleworms but they sure do look nasty!

1st picture is of a new specimen in my tank - it blends into the brown algae, as it has brown eyes. I didn't notice it at first, but I noticed it moving. The pic isn't clear but it has 2 googly eyes, and 2 antennae that look like feather dusters... it pops its head in and out of a LR hole, but I havent seen it come out further. Is it a shrimp???

Just following up on my original post, does anyone know what this lime green stuff is, in picture 2? I guess it's not algae, b/c it seems hard.


THANKS.

[7perseo7]

Is hard to see on the picture,but if you wake up some time at night or get home late,use a black light and you will see the night crew,shrimp,bristle worms,copepods, nematods they are active at night. most bristle worms and bristle starfish stay hiden in the rock with the only exceptiion of an arm or antennae to probe for nearby food or foes.you should try it some time.

[CarmieJo]

The lime green stuff in picture 2 looks like green coralline to me. I can see the eyes and antenna. I am wondering if it could be a mantis shrimp? How big is it?

[Polks]

I just checked this Mantis SHrimp online ! It seems Deadly! Should I catch it??

EDIT: Yes, I definitely need to catch it. Going to remove the LR he's hiding in now.

[CarmieJo]

Be careful, they are also called thumb splitters!

[Polks]

Wow, thanks guys.

I guess this is the most up close and personal I've gotten with a bit of a nasty lil' bugger. So I just took the LR out, put it in the sink, and squirt into his hole with room-temp water. He crawled to another hole, but soon after, he just kind of weakened and was exposed. I caught him into a jar, and dumpted some raw scallop in there for food.

It's quite the actor. I thought he/she was dead but it's not... I guess they are good at lying still. Then, all of a sudden it bursts around at crazy speeds. Luckily I only put 2 inches of water in there..

Now what to do? All my hospital containers have holes in them, I think he can get thru.... I have him in a Pasta sauce jar now..

He's one inch long

[Iron E]

Because they have the ability to beat holes in live rock they have gained the reputation of glass aquarium breakers.

I'd try to keep him but I'd consider a small acrylic tank if you can do it.

Cool critter. But not for the community.

Tom

[CarmieJo]

Good thing you saw him. He could have eaten all kinds of things. I'd keep him if you can, mantis are really cool. Someday I am going to have a tank for one.

[lance]

beautiful mantis shrimp your not gonna kill him are you?

lance

[rayme07]

Nice manti I would keep him. :)

[Polks]

I gave it back to the LFS today - they said they'd keep it.
It did look cool, and smart. Maybe another day...

[Polks]

Chitons are back - I found more. Guess I will leave them for now.... Damsel tried biting it but to no avail.

[Polks]

OK, so the (what I think are) Chitons are back. I think they are multiplying, and I'm not sure what they are doing - they can't eat/damage coralline can they?

I've labeled 4 on this one rock.

Thanks.

[CarmieJo]

I think they are algae grazers so I guess they could eat coralline. On the other hand I have only heard of urchins and possibly limpets as coralline eaters. If you find they do I am going hunting for some. I hate scraping it!

[rayme07]

I don't think Chitons eat Coraline algae when I had a couple all I saw them eat is detritus.

Carmie, I have heard emerald crabs eat Coraline algae. :)

[lance]

A chiton creeps along slowly on a muscular foot, and can cling to rocks very powerfully, like a limpet.
Chitons eat algae, bryozoans, diatoms and sometimes bacteria by scraping the rocky substrate with their well-developed radula.
A few species of chitons are predatory, such as the small western Pacific species Placiphorella velata. These predatory chitons have an enlarged anterior girdle. They catch other small invertebrates, such as shrimp and possibly even small fish, by holding the girdle up off the surface and then clamping down on the unsuspecting, shelter-seeking prey.
Some chitons exhibit homing behavior, returning to the same spot for the daylight hours and roaming around at night to feed.

lance

[Polks]

I think they are algae grazers so I guess they could eat coralline. On the other hand I have only heard of urchins and possibly limpets as coralline eaters. If you find they do I am going hunting for some. I hate scraping it!

So my concern was that these Chitons were going to eat my "good" algae, which I thought was the Coralline, pinkish growth on the LR. Am I mistaken?

Tks

[CarmieJo]

Coralline is not bad, it is just a pain to keep scraped off the glass. It would be just fine with me if it only grew on the rocks. :)

[lance]

Coralline is not bad, it is just a pain to keep scraped off the glass. It would be just fine with me if it only grew on the rocks. :)

I hear you on that.


lance

[7perseo7]

here is a matter of opinnion and what do you have in your tank,Chitons can eat detritus like i can eat Mc Donalds but if i can have a 4 course meal what do you think i will have? most animals will eat the best first and leave the rest for last resort. as far as coraline is a what you like to see in your tank.if you have some algae it will take over on the rocks if de conditions are right.

[7perseo7]

great call with the mantis shrimp carmie !

[badger]

i also had that volcano looking thing in my live rock! It moved around alot at night looked like some sort of snail to me but I never took it out of the water

[lance]

i also had that volcano looking thing in my live rock! It moved around alot at night looked like some sort of snail to me but I never took it out of the water

can you post a picture of it?

lance

[Polks]

Hi,

Since my original posting, I've taken a better picture. Not sure if this works here, but here is the "Volcano" in my tank.

Let me know if you know what it is... some type of sponge??

[CarmieJo]

I think it is a limpet.

[lance]

Hi,

Since my original posting, I've taken a better picture. Not sure if this works here, but here is the "Volcano" in my tank.

Let me know if you know what it is... some type of sponge??

it look's like the surface is hard possibly a limpit or could be a clam of some sort that siphon's water in and out for phytoplankton does it move at all?

lance

[lance]

look's like a limpit or some sort of small clam. does it move alot anything different or unique you can describe it doing?

lance