I’m in the process of setting up my second reef tank a 39g cube. It was previously a fresh water cichlid tank for many years. I unloaded the freshys on my little brother and dumped the rocks and gravel. I also have a mature 55g reef tank that’s been set up for 2 years now. My question is, if I pull 50% to 75% of the substrate needed for the new tank out of the established tank, will that help shorten the cycle? I also plan to pull some live rock and water out of the old tank and put it into the new tank. It seems like the process of maturing is pretty much about the contents of the tank and not the tank its self. I am aware that mixing up the substrate will cause some problems but… what do you think?

Also, I want to set up an algae refuge for the new 39g cube. Do you think a small 24hr lit 10g tank will be enough? I will use a small return pump with low flow rate to keep the resonance time in the refuge high. I want to try to eliminate the typical filter set up and have a more natural cycle in the tank. Any macro that’s recommended for efficiency and maintenance?

Will a hang on filter be enough to get it started? Then down the road I would like to be able to remove it.

I have a 175w MH w/ 2x18w Ant. and moon lights for lighting main tank. i will use a 55w PC to light the refuge.(I know thats over kill but its from the old fresh water setup.)

Welcome to TR!

If you use all rock and sand from the main tank to fill the 39g then you wouldn't have much a cycle if any. However, if you use *some* LR and *some* sand from the big tank and the rest of the rock comes from the LFS, then you will have a cycle since there will be die-off on the rock.

I don't recommend a 'filter'. You need a good skimmer to take care of filtering your tank. A reef is a natural part of nature so keep the "natural" in your reef and use "natural" filtration: Live rock, sand, and a good skimmer. Skip the chemical and mechanical filtration if you can, and do it biologically for the best results.

What kind of substrate does the 55g have? Be sure to use sand- the small sugar sized and not crushed coral which traps detritus. :)

Sorry can't answer your fuge question, since I'm not on the fuge bandwagon! :)

God,:roll: this filter debate is killing me. Its so counter intuitive to not have a filter. It does make since once you get past the shock of the possibility. The live rock has much more surface area that’s live filtering surface than the typical filter, but it is just a feel good thing to know you have a real man made device that “filters.” I think I will set it up without one and see how it goes.

i know overcoming the lack of mechanical filtration is a very hard thing.. it took me 6 months to get up the nerve to actually do it, but i did.. :)
its easiest to start with none.. then you don't have the problem of "can I", "should I" remove it...

are you tearing done the old tank? if you remove that much stuff you are going to though it way off, and even crash it.

and just remember this. with a seeded sand bed, and seeded rock, even if most of it was dead sand and base rock, you are only looking at 4-6 weeks on your cycle.
now if you move everything over as you said, you might reduce that to 3-4 weeks, maybe two, but it depends...

so i guess the real question is, what are you doing with the 55g.
If you are tearing it down then cool, but if no, you cant remove that much from it.

for the fuge, that sounds fine, however, you done want it lit 24 hours. its best to place it on a revers photo period. this means the lights in the fuge run opposite of your tank.

The idea is that the photosynthesis going on in the fuge will keep pH swings in the main tank to a minimum when there is no photosynthesis going on in the main tank.

I'm not a fan of this all natural thing that Gwen and Rob are talking about. Now don't get me wrong, it does work, and it works well if you take good care of the system. Personally I like to have a backup canister filter running all the time too. Normally I run it with just the ceramic tubes (beads, whatever they are) and it works just like live rock. But ocasionally I can put some carbon or phosban in there if I need to. Then you can have the best of both worlds. I have it set up so that if the return pump in the sump fails then the pump in the canister still keeps the flow going.

God,:roll: this filter debate is killing me. Its so counter intuitive to not have a filter. It does make since once you get past the shock of the possibility. The live rock has much more surface area that’s live filtering surface than the typical filter, but it is just a feel good thing to know you have a real man made device that “filters.” I think I will set it up without one and see how it goes.

Dude take the plunge and loose the filter. I was a big Power Filter heavy user when I started in the Marine Aquarium world but I built up the nerve while listening to Rob on the Podcast and said $*&^ it! Now I have a beautiful tank with a deep sand bed and water quality to kill for especially with the messy puffers that inhabit the tank. Plus Rob helped me discover the reason for naturally floating bubbles coming from the sand. It's amazing to see mother nature happening right before my eyes! :D

I like to have a backup canister filter running all the time too. Normally I run it with just the ceramic tubes (beads, whatever they are) and it works just like live rock. But ocasionally I can put some carbon or phosban in there if I need to. Then you can have the best of both worlds. I have it set up so that if the return pump in the sump fails then the pump in the canister still keeps the flow going.

I never thought about it like that Jimm. Have you taken a look at the newest Fluval 5XL, I believe that is the right name.

Thanks for the input guys. I’m not tearing the 55g down. It’s been a predator reef for the past year and a half. It has been through many iterations. It’s now a reef only tank. I removed all the large fish, and now have only a tomato clown. I love being able to look for new fish for the tank.

I set up the 39g last week. I swapped substrate with the 55g at about a 50/50 mix in the 39g. I also loaded it up with LR from the 55g and some bleached coral rubble I have collected here and there over the past few years. The bleached coral rubble I put in the 55g had significant coralline algae growth within a few weeks, so I’m just cycling rock through it to liven it up a bit. BOUNS!

Its crazy how the 39g came together like it did. I originally did not have a good stand for it; that’s why it took so long to convert it to salt. Well last week I noticed the carpenters were trimming out a new house on our street, so I did a little dumpster diving. Walla, new spiffy tank stand for free. Then I was in the LFS this past weekend and the guy had a used 175w MH light setup for 75 bucks! Ill bring in pics tomorrow. I got it all set up and put a few of the corals that I know love light in the tank.

I did go with out a filter, and I have two power heads and a skimmer running on it. It’s been set up since last Thursday, and no sign of problems yet. The water is crystal clear and the parameters are perfect. I have noticed a temp swing from the light, so I plan on putting a heater in to keep the temp level.

Here is the new setup. I am adding the door as soon as the stained glass window is finnished.

Here is the old setup

Looking good!

Bio balls are out now for 2 weeks and I’m now getting red algae on the glass instead of green algae. What do i do?

I never thought about it like that Jimm. Have you taken a look at the newest Fluval 5XL, I believe that is the right name.
i think you might be referring to the FX5. it is a monster. 945gph and hold about 6 gallons of water and media.

Update:
The new cube is doing well. Its been up for about 2 months now. As you can see I put a door on the stand. The tank is still running with no external filtration other than a hang on protein skimmer. It looks great and I haven’t seen any sign of a cycle; I think that’s because I used 75% old aragonite from my established set up. I picked up a few good specimens from Robs Reef in Orange Park Florida. I got my first 2 Acro specimens and a Clam. The acroporas are doing great. One of the corals is overgrowing the putty I used to mount it already! The clam has attached well and seems to be open and happy. Thanks Rob.