4 gal biorb FOWLR with 8 gal emergency backup

[stefalopod]

So it's not exactly a reef, but I wasn't sure where else to post.

I'm looking for any advice/comments on my current undertaking.

Backround: I live in a 300sf studio apartment in San Francisco -- which basically rules out a reasonably sized reef tank. I kept a lighly stocked 55 gal. reef for a number of years when I was a teenager with reasonable success (I worked out most of the impulsive newbie kinks back then). I had to dismantle my set up for an international move, and now I'm settled in the States again and pining for ... well... a mandarine dragonet.

Due to my incredibly tiny flat and extremely limited wall area against which to set a box-shaped tank, I settled on the baby biorb (http://www.reef-one.com/Baby-biOrb) (4 gal) for its mostly contained/ 360 degree viewing area properties.

But, it makes me really really sad whenever a specimen dies, so in the interest of preserving my future dragonet, I've set up an 8 gal refugium-style backup tank. It lives in the cabinet under my kitchen sink and is stocked with three inches of live sand, 4 lbs of deadicated LR, another 4lbs of LR destined for the biorb, and a healthy handful-sized bunch of chaetomorpha. It's equipped with heater, powerhead, protein skimmer, a generic hang-on-back carbon/coarse particulate filter that came with the tank and a basic fluorescent light that also came with the tank.

My goal is to keep 1 mandarine dragonet, and 1 atractive cleanup invert -- a shrimp or a crab -- in the biorb, and to cultivate a healthy supply of copepods and amphipods in the backup tank to feed the dragonet. I'm also planning to use temperate backup-tank water for frequent (weekly or bi-weekly) 10 - 15% water changes in the biorb.

The 8 gal tank is cycling and I'll begin cycling the biorb on Monday. I'm very patient, and derive a great deal of my marine aquarium enjoyment from minute changes to biodeversity growing on LR and LS so I can promise not to jump in and starve and shock a dragonet in a partially cycled tank. I'm trying to prepare as well as possible to ensure the best health of my specimen when I get it, and to that end, would appreciate any warnings, advice, or suggestions, or observations.

Thanks!

[rayme07]

Hi stefalopod http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/welcome.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) to TR.

I hate to be the burden of bad news but a mandarin wont last in the tank you want. They need at least a 75 gallon or more with a sump so it can sustain enough pods to last. With the tank you chose there won't be enough room. I would highly suggest going with a bigger tank. :)

[Phurst]

I'm afraid Raymond is right. Mandarins eat pods almost exclusively, and require a significantly large and mature tank, preferably with a good sized and mature refugium attached for pod production. 4 gallons is pretty tiny. I think it's going to be a significant challenge to be successful keeping a fish in there. Maybe you should keep a shrimp and a couple of snails and some soft corals?

[stefalopod]

Thanks. I think I could content myself with a fancy shrimp =)

What if I were to buy live pods? like these (https://livecopepods.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1&zenid=da4221ddbf401af73466a8d77b5e8400)

[rayme07]

Even if you buy live cope pods it probably wont be enough. The mandarin eats tons of pods and hes not the only one that eats them crabs, shrimp, organisms on the LR will to and sooner or later there will not be enough pods or no pods left and likely your mandarin will starve to death. mandarins are a hard fish to keep even the people that have been in this hobbie for years sometimes can't even keep them due to trying to keep that pod population up. :)

[Phurst]

Plus you'd go broke feeding it that way :)

I think you've got the right idea with a cool shrimp.

[stefalopod]

I might have to revise my goals here a little. I'm drawn to the mandarine because it doesn't grow very large, doesn't dart around too much, and is very very pretty. I like them well enough that I wouldn't mind buying pods regularly as a food source. -- except that it looks like you know more than I do about the quantities they eat... any estimates about how many pods they eat a day?

[PhotoJohn]

too many, just too many.

Look into a neon goby

[Phurst]

It's just not possible in that volume of water. You'd be adding a bottle every other day or so.

[stefalopod]

Well that's too bad. I'd hate to feel responsible for having starved something to death.

Liveaquaria has a list of species they recommend for nano tanks (http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=15+2124) (neon gobies among them, thanks photojohn). Would that be a good place to start looking for another fish to set my heart on?

I'd like something that'll be relaxing to look at and doesn't need strong current.

[Phurst]

I still wouldn't be comfortable with a fish in a 4 gal, but I guess if you're determined to give it a shot, one of the gobies on that page would be your best shot. If you go with a fish in that small volume Id be doing water changes every other day or so.

[stefalopod]

Thanks! I'll start with a shrimp and watch it for a while before jumping into anything.

Let me know if you think of anything else =)

[CarmieJo]

Hi Stefani and :welcome: to TR!

[stefalopod]

Thanks Carmie =) I checked out a lot of forums before deciding on this one. I like you guys =)

[CarmieJo]

I'm glad you found us. I like being a part of a forum where people are actually friends with each other.

[stefalopod]

Ok, I've had a new idea, it involves modifying the biorb pretty extensively so I'm eager to get your opinions.

I want to create the most sustainable habitat possible, and I would like to keep a fish, so I got to thinking about ways to increase the water volume available for the biorb. I can't really get a bigger tank because I don't have a big enough foot print to put it on, what I can do is build vertically. So I'm thinking about modifying the biorb with an overflow and a return to attach a fuge to it. Max fuge size would be about ten gallons.

Here's the design: let me know if you see any serious flaws. my dad's an engineer, so I can get him to help me with the acrylic cement for the overflow and with securing the bulkheads for the tubing.

http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_plan.jpg

[stefalopod]

Here are photos of the biorb assembled, dismantled, and with the globe on its side. http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb0.jpghttp://www.infourthsector.com/biorb1.jpghttp://www.infourthsector.com/biorb0.jpghttp://www.infourthsector.com/biorb2.jpg

[Phurst]

Go for it. Just pick a very small fish so it's not too cramped.

[stefalopod]

Go for it. Just pick a very small fish so it's not too cramped.

Awesome! I'll probably still stick with a small goby. This should be a super fun project =)

[PhotoJohn]

a few problems,
Your return and drain are in the same spot. You want your drain and return on opposite sides of the fuge.
You may get alot of drain noise because you wont have a dorso pipe in your drain...not sure you could even make one.

an idea:
I dont know that you need to modify your tank as much as you think. I would suggest using the existing pipe as the drain and running a smaller flexible return line back up inside/through the drain. You could then run the return down the outside of the drain to the bottom of the cube. Space is limited, less pipes is better.

I would suggest a BB system with limited liverock(lots of LR in fuge but not in DT). I think attaching LR rubble to the drain projecting out in all directions would hide the drain and return well and give a small goby some cool hiding spots. Going with a BB system would make the system much easier to clean, and give more space in the tank. Use an air line tube to suck out detritus often with water changes.

You may want to keep a dsb in your fuge. It will make your system more stable. You want 4-5in IMO. You also will want some cheto (or other macro algae). I would suggest a florescent light for the fuge, an incandescent bulb would create alot of heat. You may not need a fan, but if you use one be sure to mark your water level and top off the tank a few times a day. A fan will increase evaporation.

[stefalopod]

Awesome! Thanks PhotoJohn for the advice! I'll be sure to put the return and drain on opposite sides of the fuge.

I thought about using the existing pipe, but it's a bit short for a return -- I would end up with the DT about half full of water. I like the idea of running the return through the overflow, but I'm concerned that that would limit the volume of water I could circulate per hour. On the other hand, if I were to use the existing 1.5" hole I would escape making any material modifications to the biorb. The existing hole allows for a 3/4" bulkhead (tested successfully for a seal on the sphere today), and I don't know that I'd be able to fit anything other than airline tubing through that for the return. Did I understand your suggestion correctly?

An alternative that I've been hashing out is to use the existing hole for the overflow and drill a smaller hole for a 1/2" return line. I thought the loc-line modular piping (http://www.aquacave.com/Loc-Line%20Catalog.aspx) might be a good option since it would allow me to direct the water flow and make adjustments. Also, the loc-line is rigid, so I'd be able to prop LR against it.

I'm excited about your suggestion of the BB system. I picked up about four pounds of tall and slender LR with projections a few weeks ago that I think might look awesome standing around the drain tube. It's cycling in my 8 gal back-up tank right now.

I'm going to start looking for florescent lights. The cabinet is 13" wide, so that limits my possibilities a bit.

Thanks for your help!
-Stefani

[PhotoJohn]

I wouldnt think you would need massive flow unless you are planning on corals...in which case i think you will have to upgrade the light anyway. The locline is a good idea, i was just trying to avoid poking holes in the tank. I think you could probably get enough flow through a 1/4"line for a tank that size so running it up the drain might work. You could also run the return lines over the top of the bowl. You would then have to make a hood of sorts, just another idea.

[stefalopod]

I wouldnt think you would need massive flow unless you are planning on corals...in which case i think you will have to upgrade the light anyway.

I'm not planning to have corals, but I'd like to be able to expand my project if I decide to take that leap later. I'd have to figure out some sort of lighting solution first. The biorb is going to be basically in the middle of my studio, visible from all angles, which means the the light will wake me up if I have it set on a timer. I'd like to exploit that to have the lights turn on gradually, but I'll have to do some research to figure out how.


You could also run the return lines over the top of the bowl. You would then have to make a hood of sorts, just another idea.

I'm really keen to have all of the magic hidden inside the cabinet. I'm developing some plans to have the refugium visible from one side of the room, and the biorb visible from all angles with the hoses, lights, nano skimmer, etc hidden behind a cabinet door. Pictures coming soon!

[stefalopod]

So I've made some serious inroads on the biorb project. I've modified a cabinet that matches my bookshelves to house the orb/fuge. I'm hoping that with enough crossbracing, the cabinet will hold the wight of 4 gallons of water, but I've modified ikea to do my bidding, so I'm totally prepared to reinforce it if necessary. The quick-clamp is on to make sure that I don't have any nasty spills. Probably once the fuge is in, it'll anchor the cabinet well enough that I won't have to worry about it tipping, if not, I can attach the cabinet either to the floor or to the bookshelves.

http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/1.JPGhttp://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/2.JPGhttp://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/3.JPGhttp://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/4.JPGhttp://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/5.JPGhttp://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/6.JPG


The locline is a good idea, i was just trying to avoid poking holes in the tank. I think you could probably get enough flow through a 1/4"line for a tank that size so running it up the drain might work. I've gotten a closer look at the bottom of the biorb, and now i'm not really sure that i have enough space for another bulkhead to fit within the orb cradle. I'm going to buy some tubing and see how it feels. Thanks for the suggestion. =)


Suggestions/comments are very welcome.
Thanks!

[rayme07]

Very cool it looks great. :up:

[Phurst]

This is turning into a sweet project. Where's you get the Biorb. Might have to give this a shot in my office at work.

[stefalopod]

Thanks Rayme07. I've ordered a custom tank to use as a fuge in the bottom cabinet. It'll hold almost ten gal (9.97 i think). More pictures when the fuge arrives =)

[PhotoJohn]

looking great

[stefalopod]

looking great

Thanks photoJohn, your guidance has been invaluable =)

[stefalopod]

This is turning into a sweet project. Where's you get the Biorb. Might have to give this a shot in my office at work.

Thanks Phurst =) Got the biorb from Biorb Aquariums EverythingBiorb.com Home Biorb Accessories (http://www.everythingbiorb.com/biorbstore/index.php/) they have free ground shipping and charge less for some of the biorb accessories.

[sweetpea]

That is an interesting set up you have, I like how it is not the typical biocube. My first tank was a biocube and just a little bit bigger than yours. I have come across some smaller critters such as the sexy shrimp, scooter blenny and two tonned cromis that may work out well for your set up.

[stefalopod]

That is an interesting set up you have, I like how it is not the typical biocube. My first tank was a biocube and just a little bit bigger than yours. I have come across some smaller critters such as the sexy shrimp, scooter blenny and two tonned cromis that may work out well for your set up.

Thanks sweetpea, and thanks for the critter suggestions =)

Update: I ordered all of the plumbing stuff last night. I'll post pics when I get all of the fuge stuff put together.

Thanks for your suggestions everyone!

[Pat]

hears a link to a thread i started about the mandarin if your ever interested and get the right tank for it
http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/general-fish-discussion/8096-mandarin-dragonet.html#post95385

[stefalopod]

hears a link to a thread i started about the mandarin if your ever interested and get the right tank for it
http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/general-fish-discussion/8096-mandarin-dragonet.html#post95385

Thanks! I'll check it out right now =)

[sweetpea]

Cant wait to see how your bubble3 turns out, it should look fantastic and give a little energy to you casa.

[stefalopod]

Thanks SweetPea =)

So I ordered a custom made acrylic cube from glassgages.com (http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=25). It's going to fit inside the cabinet flush against the back and with a quarter inch on either side.

I ordered a current USA surface skimmer (http://www.current-usa.com/subcurrent.html)

and I'll be using a biocube protein skimmer (http://www.petsolutions.com/Oceanic-BioCube-Protein-Skimmer+I97982053.aspx) that I've already got running on my 8 gal emergency tank. It's definitely short of impressive, but I pour out an ounce or so of foul smelling greenish water every day, so it's definitely doing something.

I ordered clear acrylic tube for the overflow. I wanted to get the cast stuff, but I couldn't find it in inch diameter with a minimum wall thickness so I went with the extruded. I'm going to set it up and then see what I can do to minimize gurgling/ rushing sounds. My dad's kind of a common-sense-savant/mad scientist type so I'm sure he'll be helpful with that part.

For fuge lighting I ordered the double compact florescent fixture. (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13733"aqualight 12) The twelve inch model comes with 2 50/50s, I did some research to try to find out whether they make blue actinics for that size fixture. Does anyone know?

The other thing is that the fixture instructions indicate that it's for use over a glass canopy, can anyone translate that? I read somewhere that putting your lights over a canopy seriously screens out certain light frequencies and should be avoided as possible. Does "Strip lights are to be used over a glass canopy" mean that terrible things will happen if I don't? I was thinking about suspending the fixture from the top of the cabinet, but I'd like to know if that's really a bad idea. Apparently if you buy the accessory mounting legs then the fixture isn't to be used with a glass cover... Help?

My most important challenge right now is trying to figure out how to tuck away electrical cords from sight without suspending them above an open receptical full of water, ie: the fuge (that's a bad idea right?:fire:)

Ideas? Suggestions?

[sweetpea]

Liquid Medium Marine Aquarist's Magazine (http://liquid-medium.com/1_2/backgrounds.htm) here is a website that discusses backgrounds painted/non painted. It is interesting and may give you a better personal opinion on lighting above with glass tops although the topic is somewhat off the beaten path. I have my lights over a piece of plexy glass on my 30 gallon, and the fixture has the legs to hold it above the tank. My 20 gallon has legs as well and sits over glass. I have not seemed to have an issue but I do clean the covers on a regular basis. Since it will be over a fuge you dont have to worry about corals getting the proper amounts of light and you should be cool.

Can you send me a picture of the tube overflow I am a little confused about what you purchased. I have found slim designs that fit behind the tank and between the wall but not a tube form. I was also interested in the casting material you were discussing.

Small Aquarium Lighting: Mini Compact Bulbs (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+8068+9870&pcatid=9870)
Aquarium Lighting: Current Compact Fluorescent Square Pin Bulbs (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+8068+11422&pcatid=11422) (try tis one first for light bulbs, they have a 9 and 12 3/4 is your fixture 12", making your bulb under 12", p.s check the watts as well)

As for electrical hard ware stores sell little c shaped mounts that have an area to screw into so you can drill into you cabinet and feed the cords through so they are not dangling. There are many pieces you could use to rig the cords up and away, just walk through the hardware isle and see what may fit you needs the best.

[kgchampagne]

Cool idea, and your design looks good. The furniture you are using for your stand is most likely made of MDF (medium density fiberboard) and will "melt" if water penetrates the finish. As a precaution, you might run a bead of silicone caulk along the corners so that if you were to have even a small mishap the water could not get into the endgrain (unfinished edge) of the board. Even if it is solid wood, I might still do the same.

[stefalopod]

Liquid Medium Marine Aquarist's Magazine (http://liquid-medium.com/1_2/backgrounds.htm) here is a website that discusses backgrounds painted/non painted. It is interesting and may give you a better personal opinion on lighting above with glass tops although the topic is somewhat off the beaten path. I have my lights over a piece of plexy glass on my 30 gallon, and the fixture has the legs to hold it above the tank. My 20 gallon has legs as well and sits over glass. I have not seemed to have an issue but I do clean the covers on a regular basis. Since it will be over a fuge you dont have to worry about corals getting the proper amounts of light and you should be cool. Just got through reading the article -- who'd of thunk it? Thanks for the link.
Somewhat non-standard one, I've got a sphirical 4gal FOWLR over a 10 gallon tall display fuge. By fuge, I just mean that I won't have any serious pod predators in there, so i might eventually try a hardy coral (i don't know much about corals at the moment, still have lots of research to do!). But using a cover and then taking it off if needed seems like a quick fix. Are your 30 gal and 20 both reefs? or are they fuges?


Can you send me a picture of the tube overflow I am a little confused about what you purchased. I have found slim designs that fit behind the tank and between the wall but not a tube form. I was also interested in the casting material you were discussing.

It's not a prebuilt overflow, but a piece of extruded acrylic tubing that I'll modify to do my bidding. I'll post photos when I start the build -- it should arrive next week or so. The difference between extruded and cast is that the acrylic is squeeze out of a machine in making the extruded which reportedly causes lines running up and down the otherwise clear tube. Cast tube is poured into a mold and then released from the mold and reportedly is crystal clear.



Small Aquarium Lighting: Mini Compact Bulbs (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+8068+9870&pcatid=9870)
Aquarium Lighting: Current Compact Fluorescent Square Pin Bulbs (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+8068+11422&pcatid=11422) (try tis one first for light bulbs, they have a 9 and 12 3/4 is your fixture 12", making your bulb under 12", p.s check the watts as well)

Thanks! I think the 9" 18 watt square pin bulbs might work. The fixture is 12" so the bulbs will be smaller. It hasn't arrived yet, so I won't be sure until I get a good look at it.



As for electrical hard ware stores sell little c shaped mounts that have an area to screw into so you can drill into you cabinet and feed the cords through so they are not dangling. There are many pieces you could use to rig the cords up and away, just walk through the hardware isle and see what may fit you needs the best.
I'll go check this out. I think it would work really well. I'm going to try amphibious' pvc risers in a dsb idea, so I'll look for the mounts when I go pick up the pvc.

Thanks so much for your help sweetpea!


Cool idea, and your design looks good. The furniture you are using for your stand is most likely made of MDF (medium density fiberboard) and will "melt" if water penetrates the finish. As a precaution, you might run a bead of silicone caulk along the corners so that if you were to have even a small mishap the water could not get into the endgrain (unfinished edge) of the board. Even if it is solid wood, I might still do the same.

OMG I'm so glad you mentioned this! I had thought that the cabinet might bow if it got wet but it hadn't occurred to me that it might melt. Thank you so much! I'm sure you've saved me an enormous complication there. I'll pick up the silicone when I get the rest of the stuff at the hardware store.

[stefalopod]

Cool idea, and your design looks good.

And thanks for the props! =)

[PhotoJohn]

I used PVC stands on my 75g build. They work well and if you pay attention when aquascaping you can almost totally hide the stands. But hiding the stands may not matter if it is in your sump

[stefalopod]

Thanks Photojohn =) I made a slight modification to the pvc stand idea by using the larger diameter black pvc. I'm hoping that it'll be a little less obvious than the white. Also I think it'll be easier to balance the rock on top without needing the flat rocks first.

Here's a photo. I'm guessing the black pvc is as safe to use in an aquarium as the white stuff. Let me know if I'm wrong.

The fuge shipped today, so I should be getting it in about a week or so.

http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/7.jpg I'm such a fan of hole cutting saws =)

[sweetpea]

Let us know how it turns out.

[PhotoJohn]

those PVC stands look good to me. As far as I know black PVC is okay to use.

Why are you using a 50/50 bulb for your fuge light? If you are trying to grow macro algae the actinic lights will do relatively nothing. Using straight 10k would work better. Plants and other photosynthetic creatures grow best under 6k lighting, but nuisance algae also grow best under 6k.

[stefalopod]

those PVC stands look good to me. As far as I know black PVC is okay to use. Thanks =) I'll snap some pics when I start setting this up =)


Why are you using a 50/50 bulb for your fuge light? If you are trying to grow macro algae the actinic lights will do relatively nothing. Using straight 10k would work better. Plants and other photosynthetic creatures grow best under 6k lighting, but nuisance algae also grow best under 6k.
I bought the lamp with the 50/50s because it fit in my tiny cabinet (13.5" wide) and because the "fuge" isn't always destined to be a fuge. It'll be a display fuge first, but I want to have some mobility to be able to convert it to a nano reef in September or so.

Thanks for the heads up though. I thought I knew what I was buying when I bought the coralife lamp, but your post gave me some serious doubts that I'd done my homework properly. I just can't seem to keep all of this lighting terminology in my head at the same time -- I do all kinds of research, make a decision, and then par, kelvin, lumens per watt, and all of the rest of the terminology just drains back out through my ears.

[saltaddict]

Very cool build - the tank stands I believe will be more functional with the "rock cut outs" since most of our LR isn't flat.

[stefalopod]

Very cool build - the tank stands I believe will be more functional with the "rock cut outs" since most of our LR isn't flat.

Thanks Saltaddict!

--So I've got the whole unwieldy little beast up and cycling now. I had to 'test' it with LR in the display tank because the pieces are too big to get in and out with the overflow fixed in place.

It's looking pretty decent, but I have to say it's a real challenge to aquascape for a 360 degree viewing angle in a spherical tank... mostly because you have to place the pieces and then stand back and walk around the DT to see how it looks.

More updates and pics to come =)

[saltaddict]

Can't wait to see it!

[stefalopod]

Lol, here's my version of a FTS =)

http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/fts2.jpg

I ordered the taam rio mini sun blue/white. I'm going to see how well it illuminates the orb, and if it looks good, I'll dismantle it and use the pieces in the original orb light assembly... I like for things to look tidy ;)

Also, the coralia light on the lower tank heats up the water. I raised it off the top of the tank a bit, and it's helped to keep the water temperature down (so far). I only made the change today, so we'll see how warm it gets before the day is over. If I can't keep it cool, I'll have to come up with a new solution...

[PhotoJohn]

I would get a small computer fan and wire it into the stand.

I like the light stands, yet another use for shot glasses!

[rayme07]

Your tank is looking awesome. :up:

[saltaddict]

I am very impressed! That is a very cool set-up.

[sweetpea]

Looking pretty cool. I just got a tini tiny lettuce slug he may work well in your bubble.

[PhotoJohn]

lettuce nudi's dont do well in tanks. I had one once, it was not well suited for aquarium life. Powerheads, overflows, current, not friends to my nudi. They are pretty cool to look at but I would advise against any nudi, they usually starve.

[stefalopod]

Thanks everyone! It has been quite a journey...

I had ages of trouble trying to figure out how to flood-proof both tanks, but that's all figured out now. It's designed not to be able to siphon from top down, and water can only travel downward if it's being pushed up from the lower tank (equal displacement).

I was really concerned that it would be noisy once I heard talk about the Durso. I had never run or built a tank with a sump, so I hadn't been aware that overflow noises could be a problem. The system is actually incredibly quiet... I think because the water flows straight down and takes air down with it -- almost like a dummed down durso -- it doesn't make any serious bends on its trip back to the subtank. Also the little lid on the upper tank seems to muffle what little drain noses there are.

I was worried about how to get the greatest turnover through 1/4" tubing, and solved that by running 4 1/4" tubes off a 1/2" drip irrigation quad manifold, screwed onto the MPT on my return pump -- the orb turns over 15 to 20 times an hour now, with water disbursing from top down through the orb in four different directions.

My current challenge is with lighting. The 5watt bulb that came with the biorb is incredibly insufficient, and the lamp I bought for the sub-tank is too hot.

I bought a Taam Rio mini sun to see whether it would illuminate the orb well, but it's incredibly unidirectional, too blue, and not all that bright... I think I'll make a lamp out of 130 degree radius high powered LEDs ... more on that to come =)

[stefalopod]

Looking pretty cool. I just got a tini tiny lettuce slug he may work well in your bubble.

I had a lettuce nudi several years ago in a bigger tank, he really didn't last all that long. I bought it despite my boss' (at the LFS) insistance that I couldn't keep it alive. They are really neat looking critters though. One of the LFS's here in town gets electric purple ones in from time to time, and I always stop and watch them skulk around for a while.

Thanks for the suggestion though =)

[stefalopod]

lettuce nudi's dont do well in tanks. I had one once, it was not well suited for aquarium life. Powerheads, overflows, current, not friends to my nudi. They are pretty cool to look at but I would advise against any nudi, they usually starve.

I'm with you about the nudis, but one of the interesting things about the orb is that it has a sort of gentle water turnover without any pumps, powerheads, etc. I expect that a nudy or a snail could climb over the overflow and down to the sump or from the bottom up, but it seems like the setup in the upper tank might provide an interesting opportunity for a delicate species that can't handle being jostled around... pixy sea horses or the like (not that I have enough pods ATM)

Any thoughts?

[stefalopod]

So I turned the lights off, and the temperature didn't go down. My next step was to turn everything but the return pump off, and the temperature went way down over four hours 82 - 76. At some point, I accidentally plugged the koralia nano back in, and the temperature climbed one degree in half an hour. Now I have everything running but the koralia and the lights, and the temperature is holding at 76.7

Has anyone had a koralia heat the water like that?



I would get a small computer fan and wire it into the stand.

I like the light stands, yet another use for shot glasses!

Hee hee =) I always like to be prepared...

I've been looking at computer fans and trying to figure out how to install it with the least disruption to my aesthetics and highest functionality. ...I could pull air from the bookshelf, but not push air into it... I've got 1/4" clear around the tank so I might put a fan low at the back so it'll pull air all around the tank, i'm only concerned that I'll get condensation back there. Is that likely?

[saltaddict]

All pumps and power heads do put off a little heat. I can see with a system your size that it could cause the temp to raise. I would use a little 4" fan from Wal-mart pointed over the top of the water and this will help. I would also have a small heater installed because you really don't the want the temp swinging.

[PhotoJohn]

a little walmart clip on fan will work okay, it might not look amazing but it will move air. You really want the fans blowing over the waters surface. It cools the water via evaporation. Just having it blow on the glass probably wont do to much, and you shouldnt have to worry about condensation (I have never had a problem with it). If you are keeping the fuge light (held up by the shot glasses) you could place a computer fan blowing across the water the length of the fixture. That would diminish heat from the light and increase overall evap decreasing temp and allowing for you power head. That being said 82 degrees is probably okay for a reef.

[stefalopod]

Thanks saltadict and photojohn =)

I was thinking that if I stuck a fan at the back, exhausting air outward, it would have to draw some of that air from over the tank... it's partly an aesthetics issue, and partly to do with the very very little cabinet space I have. ... I guess I could draw air from the bookshelf area, over the water's surface and out the front of the cabinet pretty tidily. I'll have to look into that.=)

I'm not exactly concerned that the tank is hitting 82, so much as I'm concerned that it's hitting 82, I don't have air conditioning, and it hasn't gotten as hot as its going to get.

Actually, I was thinking about installing a turf scrubber, having the overflow water from the orb run directly over the turf, and then drain into the 'fuge. Turf scrubbers are supposed to cool water, aren't they? Especially in combination with a fan?

[PhotoJohn]

Oh no AC, that will make life as a reefer more difficult. You may end up having to have a chiller of some sort, the small ones dont look to bad. You could also freeze water bottles and float the frozen bottles in the sump, cycling them every so often.

[stefalopod]

Oh no AC, that will make life as a reefer more difficult. You may end up having to have a chiller of some sort, the small ones dont look to bad. You could also freeze water bottles and float the frozen bottles in the sump, cycling them every so often.

I like this freezing idea... it sounds... inexpensive ;) San Francisco doesn't get too hot, but I'm not going to get any fish or corals until I'm sure I've got my water temperature sorted.

the smallest fan cooled chillers still cost about $100 retail...

[stefalopod]

Little update on the biorb:

I went down to the LFS today to ask some advice about an ailing yellow clown goby I've had in quarantine for about two months. LFS warned of a grim outlook for the goby; he's quit eating entirely and is sitting on the sand. I've tried enriched brine, mysis, frozen nano reef food, dry "finicky fish" pellets, and fozen cyclps and he just won't take anything. The pods in the QT threw a party though when I added the cyclops.

I think I can see a few tiny bumps around his head, but they don't seem to be white. He goes pale overnight and this morning when I woke up the bumps looked white, but the colored back up my mid-afternoon. My uv sterilizer arrived today, so that's in the QT now, and I went ahead and did a FW dip. Hopefully he can be rescued.

Also, while I was at the LFS, I spotted a couple of mushrooms, a red and a blue, that were all happy and open in a LR tank with very low light. The LFS sold them to me for $3 each. And so begins my foray into actual reefkeeping. They're in the Orb now, kinda scrunched up and unhappy looking. If they don't acclimate to the biorb, I'll stick them in a shady area of the display fuge, which has quite a lot more light than the orb does.

They also had two high fin gobies that were sharing the underside of a rock together, so I chose them for my DT. LFS has had them in for a month now, the owner said they were eating cyclops, so I'll be trying that first. I'm going to keep them in de facto quarantine in the display tank, I won't add any more verts until these two are happy and healthy in their new home, at least a month or two.

For anyone who has done the math and noticed that it's been about two weeks since I got this system running: it didn't cycle by the rules. The only explanation I can think of is that I used LS and LR that I had had cycling in the QT for a couple months, as well as live nitrifying bacteria. I fed it a few dried pellets on the first day, it had an ammonia spike on the second day, and has been reading 0 ever since. No3 is undetectable, and pH is holding steady at 8.0. I fed it a 6-8 more food pellets a few days ago and levels didn't budge, so I'm thinking the system can handle a new addition.

Update on the mushrooms since I started writing this post: the red is still pretty squished up but the blue has wedged itself into a shady crevice and opened up as well as space will allow. The surface is smooth where it isn't ruffled by the edges of the rock it wedged itself into. I didn't know they could do that, wedge themselves into things...

Also my temperature issues were resolved by removing the koralia and reversing the light (which is still on the shotglass stand) so that the ballast sticks out of the cabinet.

thanks for reading =)

[PhotoJohn]

The high fin gobies were an interesting choice. Your orb is about 16g too small according to most websites. I would stop putting anything in the orb and start getting water ready for water changes. If you had an established 20g tank 2 fish wouldn't be an issue but you have substantially less water in a very young tank which means it is much much much easier to throw out of wack. I am guessing here but putting two small fish in your orb is probably like dumping 4 or 5 tangs in a larger tank. Keep a very close eye on your levels, I would test in the morning and at night for a week or more to make sure the tank doesn't crash. You have overstocked your tank already, now you will get to deal with the consequences, however with constant dedication I hope you will succeed. And if not, lesson learned I hope.

Google High fin Gobies and read up on their requirements. Try to make your system fit what they like and need, you're a mom now.

The mushrooms should probably be put in the fuge until you have strong lighting for the orb. Mushrooms I believe are anemones(or similar to) and need light to survive. You got yours at a good price, I dont want you to lose them though. Your light in the sump should be sufficient to sustain life.

You may also want to get a small ball of cheto tomorrow(for the sump), it will help keep your nitrates down. Your fish will probably be okay till your nitrates hit 20+ or a bit more, keep a sharp eye out and try to keep it at zero.

Glad you found a way to deal with temperature.

When you feed your gobies feed sparingly and feed several times a day. This way they will hopefully eat most/all of the food. I would turn the return pump off so the gobies have a chance to eat the food before it gets taken to the sump, remember to turn it back on however.

[Carty]

i've seen those gobies thrive in 12 gallon nano's no problem, i dont see any issues

[stefalopod]

Your orb is about 16g too small according to most websites. Hi PhotoJohn, I'm a little confused, I thought that what mattered was total volume, and in this system, it's 14g, not 4. the hi fins are listed as wanting 10 gal on liveaquaria, which is why I chose them. -- they're on the nano fish page. That is to say, I thought I had done my homework. I must have been mistaken if one is supposed to add required water volume per fish, but I reasoned that adding required water volume per fish would be unwieldy where an angel requires 100g and a tang requires 70 -- most people would not say that you need 170g to keep an angel and a tang.

My logic in getting two of them was that they were living within an inch of each other, and apart from the other hi fin in the tank. They seem to get along, and if they stop getting along, I can keep one in the orb and the other in the 'fuge.

I can tell that you're unimpressed by what looks to you like irresponsible antics, but as I see it, my system is different from anything else out there. No one builds a display tank with a fuge more than twice its size. And for that reason, the canons of reefkeeping can't be expected to apply to my system in exactly the same way that they're known to do in the hobby in general.

I will take your advice of testing the water morning and night... I usually only do it once a day, but you've got a point about this being a new system. Thank you.



The mushrooms should probably be put in the fuge until you have strong lighting for the orb. Mushrooms I believe are anemones(or similar to) and need light to survive. You got yours at a good price, I dont want you to lose them though. Your light in the sump should be sufficient to sustain life. This is another complication with my bizarre setup. No one can tell me how to light a sphere with a 10" radius for success, so I got the mushrooms to test various types of lighting. I'm beginning with the stock 5 watt halogen and moving up to a 20 watt, trying both halogens and xenons. If those don't work, the shrooms will go into the fuge until I sort out my lighting situation.


You may also want to get a small ball of cheto tomorrow(for the sump), it will help keep your nitrates down. Your fish will probably be okay till your nitrates hit 20+ or a bit more, keep a sharp eye out and try to keep it at zero. I've already got the chaeto in place =) I'm going to be building a turf scrubber too, probably in about a week.



When you feed your gobies feed sparingly and feed several times a day. This way they will hopefully eat most/all of the food. I would turn the return pump off so the gobies have a chance to eat the food before it gets taken to the sump, remember to turn it back on however. Great suggestion! I'll do it like you say =)

[Carty]

Stef, I see no problems with the way your going about it... and while your system is very rare.. it isn't 1 of a kind :-P

one of my buddies has a 5 gallon pico with a 20 gallon sump haha

I think it's the smartest way to build a nano system (what you are doing)

99% of the problems faced in nano's is the lack of good equipment because its small and has to fit + the minimal water volume... both of which you have solved by adding a large fuge/sump/second tank/ whatever

I think this will be a fine tank, and look forward to seeing it grow

Let me know if you have any questions, our talk was fun today (even the mothers part) haha

[stefalopod]

one of my buddies has a 5 gallon pico with a 20 gallon sump

Hey, really? Do you have any pics? I'd love to see what he's done!

[PhotoJohn]

I wasn't saying it was impossible it just seems like a lot of bio load for a small system to start out. As you know with time your beneficial bacteria should increase to handle the load. I am sure it will be fine.

I am sorry for not being positive. I will attempt to do better :)

Good luck with the new fishies.

[stefalopod]

NP PhotoJohn =) I'm sure that it looked like I had just walzed into the LFS and bought what suited my fancy without any thought or planning =)

The 15w xenon I tried started to heat up the plastic within 15 minutes, so I shelved that idea and now have the mushrooms five inches below a 10 watt 5000k cfl.

[stefalopod]

Wow, blue shroom hates the cfl. It has been all open and happy and now it's retracted into a crevice. ...only took about 10 minutes.

Red seems to like it ok.

[stefalopod]

Hmmm, Blue hates the CFL, and red loves it. I moved the lamp so that it would shine more on the red than the blue and the red turned to face it.

Ingenious little creatures, these muchrooms.

[Carty]

yep.. Probably harvard grads

[stefalopod]

yep.. Probably harvard grads
lol, you must be from the east coast. Over here we call them "Stanford grads" ;)

[Carty]

haha actually its more the southern coast.. but i guess it could be looked at as the east??

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4158/irelandmapg.gif

[saltaddict]

Hmmm, Blue hates the CFL, and red loves it. I moved the lamp so that it would shine more on the red than the blue and the red turned to face it.

Ingenious little creatures, these muchrooms.

Some shrooms loves the high intensity lighting and others don't. I have some that attach at the bottom of the tank under a rock and peek out and others that will attach at the very top directly under the lighting.

Let them be for a few days and see what they do - they may just be finding their way in the tank.

[PhotoJohn]

Harvard is in Cambridge, MA...the well known American version at least

[stefalopod]

Some shrooms loves the high intensity lighting and others don't. I have some that attach at the bottom of the tank under a rock and peek out and others that will attach at the very top directly under the lighting.

Let them be for a few days and see what they do - they may just be finding their way in the tank.

So the red is holding steady right where i put it all spread open and happy. The blue seems to be improving, he's anchored himself deep in a crevice and is open where he isn't pinched shut by rocks on either side (did that make sense?)

Also, I've been testing my levels twice a day and ammonia and nitrate are still at 0. Ph has held between 8 and 8.2.

I haven't laid eyes on the hi fins since I introduced them (you wouldn't think they could hide so well in only four gallons!) I've been feeding the tank a little bit a few times a day anyway, but they haven't come out to eat at all. There were a lot of pods when I introduced them, so they may be eating those.

The gumdrop in quarantine seems to be doing much better since the fresh water bath. He seemed to breath more easily as soon as I dipped him, and started swimming a little and perching on things within 12 hours. He had been laying in the sand sort of off kilter for the past few days so I think that's a huge improvement. He still won't eat (unless he's eating pods) though. I've tried enriched brine, mysis, and pellets. I'm going to go out and get some roe today and see if he'll take that.

Carty: I didn't realize you were Irish! I had a friend from Cork once. Well, I thought of him as a friend because we hung out a lot, but the truth is I couldn't understand a word he was saying :rotfl:

[Carty]

haha my accent is very subtle

[stefalopod]

are you sure you're from cork? ;)

I love Ireland. I spent a couple months there in 2006... mostly in Dublin though.

[PhotoJohn]

For the little guy in QT you may want to try live brine shrimp. They are fairly easy to hatch and feed with selcon and/or Phyto. I was going to direct you to an old DIY BS hatchery page but it is gone...If you search google for 2 liter brine shrimp hatchery you can probably find something....anything with a little air stone will probably work.

found the DIY page

http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/diy-projects/7567-diy-bs-hatchery.html

[Carty]

are you sure you're from cork? ;)

I love Ireland. I spent a couple months there in 2006... mostly in Dublin though.


haha ya, pretty sure

[stefalopod]

For the little guy in QT you may want to try live brine shrimp. They are fairly easy to hatch and feed with selcon and/or Phyto. I was going to direct you to an old DIY BS hatchery page but it is gone...If you search google for 2 liter brine shrimp hatchery you can probably find something....anything with a little air stone will probably work.

found the DIY page

http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/diy-projects/7567-diy-bs-hatchery.html

I tried live tiger pods, but he wouldn't take them. Do you think I should invest in the brine anyway?

[stefalopod]

Also, the red and the blue ended up opening up nicely, so I went back and picked up the rest of the loose shrooms at the LFS... all for three dollars each. Two more blues, and a lavendar, which have all settled in and begun to open today. The lavendar is a pretty good size, about two inches across. It was hiding behind an anemone at the LFS, otherwise, I'm sure someone would have gotten it.

I ended up adding a sand bed to the orb, both for the hi fins and because I needed a little more stability for the rubble ( i knocked over a few of the rocks trying to add the new shrooms)

[PhotoJohn]

I bet the high fins will love the sand.

Brine is cheap. You can hatch your own for just a few dollars assuming you own an air pump. If he is eating something I wouldnt worry about him but if not live brine is what alot of people use to get new fish to eat and switch to frozen foods.

[Carty]

i do brine shrimp about once a month.. setting up a hatchery is super easy, and the fish love it

[saltaddict]

i do brine shrimp about once a month.. setting up a hatchery is super easy, and the fish love it

Got any pics of your hatchery?

[Carty]

its just a 2 liter bottle cut in half and it upside (cut side facing up) with an air pump blowing thru the skinny part

[stefalopod]

Finally caught sight of the hi fins =)

They're poking their noses out of opposite ends of a communal burrow (I know it's connected because they'll check up on each other from time to time). They're both eating too =) I tried cyclops earlier and they both ventured out for it.

I'll have to look into the brine hatchery. thanks for the suggestions!

[stefalopod]

Strange things: when I added the sand bottom to the orb, I only filled in one half of the orb. I couldn't see the fish, so I didn't want to bury them by adding sand all over at once. The strange thing is that the fish are completely disregarding the sandy area and happily poking their noses out from underneath rocks on the bb half. I don't know if it's because they set up their burrow there and now they're going to stay, regardless of where the sand is, or if they like the bb.

I made the mushrooms pretty unhappy when I started knocking rocks all over, so I propped them up, placed the new mushrooms, and decided to leave the aquascaping ugly for a few days while the shrooms settle in and get happy again (which they're doing beautifully). I ordered underwater epoxy that should arrive tomorrow, so I'll be able to affix the LR a little better soon, but I'm wondering whether I should add sand to the rest of the orb while I'm at it...

[Carty]

the picture on the left is almost identical to my hatchery

Shrimpery Kits (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4445&cmpid=03csegb&ref=3312&subref=AA&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=0154005000000)

[stefalopod]

Ha! They want 8 bucks for that?

I'll look into setting up a hatchery over the weekend. I've tried everything else...

[sweetpea]

Wow, I havent been around in the past few weeks, between being sick and the last rush of the season before summer, Gotta make money while you can. It seems as though you have gotten very far with your little orbe. Can you post a picture.

[Carty]

haha $8... welcome to america..

I didn't say buy it, im just saying, thats what you need

I just made mine

[stefalopod]

Pics =)http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/IMAGE_044.jpg
The orb looks dark because the lamp is on the far side. The corals all face my bedroom/living room area, and the fish are on the dark side facing my front door.
http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/IMAGE_048.jpg
and here you can see one of the hi fins and my best friend's sriped leggings ;)
http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/IMAGE_053.jpg

[stefalopod]

does embedding you tube videos work in TR? I took a little video of the hi fins doing their thing, let's see if it'll show up here.

...ok, that came out sideways...

here's a right side up one (take 3): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5gqOeaJZfI

[stefalopod]

Oh! I got lots of really cute photos of the hi fins after feeding time today! http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/P4030929.JPGhttp://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/P4030932.JPGhttp://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/P4030933.JPGhttp://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/P4030934.JPGhttp://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/P4030936.JPG

[rayme07]

Very cool it looks like the high fins are having a great time in the tank.

[stefalopod]

I know! I was so happy to see them out and about. They hadn't ventured out from under the rubble for the first few days I had them. They seem to get along pretty well. I haven't seen them picking at each other or posturing to get the other one to go away. And when they're in the water current snapping up food, they almost mirror each other's movements. If one backs toward the burrow, the other backs in just as quickly and just as deep. When one ventures out, the other one does. They'll cross paths, or separate two or three inches, but they tend to match up in terms of the height at which they're swimming. If I had to pick, I would say the smaller one, ordinarily closer to the camera, is dominant.

[rayme07]

That's cool they might be pairing up.

[stefalopod]

That's cool they might be pairing up.

That would be so much cooler than the alternative! I'm watching them pretty closely. They tend to stay within site of each other, and occasionally swim over to one another, and they haven't been displaying any kind of territoriality or aggression.

Also, I finally worked out how to keep the LR from toppling over every time I put my hand in the orb: I used clear plastic hair ties to rubber band the rock to the overflow -- this is helping a ton in trying to keep some of the detritus off the inside slope of the orb (dirt collector!). You can see it in the earlier photos of the hi fins and the video.

I went ahead and added a little more sand to the orb. Now there's some in the half where they seem to be burrowing -- I thought it would be good to encourage their natural burrow building behavior.

Has anyone seen these build multiple exits to their burrow? These guys are liable to pop up out of any of four or five holes... I didn't think they did that.

[PhotoJohn]

My yellow watchman has multiple burrow exits all through the left side of my 75g.

The hair ties should work well and will cover over with coraline fast

[stefalopod]

My yellow watchman has multiple burrow exits all through the left side of my 75g. Awesome! I didn't know they did that!

[stefalopod]

RO/DI water testing positive for amonia

Strange things. I decided to run a full set of tests comparing my fuge water to newly mixed RO/DI water

Here's what I got

pH | Ammonia | Nitrites | Nitrates
Fuge | 8.0 | 0 | .2 | 2
DT | 8.0 | 0 | .2 | 4
RO/DI | 8.2 | .25 | 0 | 0

I thought I might have mixed up the fuge and ro/di ammonia tests, but i re-ran it and got the same thing.

[saltaddict]

Do you have a special filter for chloramine in your system? I found out from our water dept that our city adds this (ammonia) to our water for preservation. Some cities do and some don't. This is the reason I am such a huge advocate for customized RO/DI systems so the company you are working with can use your water report to design your system.

[stefalopod]

the system is a
1) 5 micron sediment filter
2) activated carbon filter
3) the ro membrane and
4) di resin.

Would the activated carbon not clean out the chloramine?

[PhotoJohn]

it shouldnt have anything in it if your RO/di unit is working properly.

[stefalopod]

it shouldnt have anything in it if your RO/di unit is working properly.

That's what I thought... I'm going to have to experiment a bit to work this one out...

It seems strange that it would have gotten all of the nitrites and nitrates but not ammonia...

[PhotoJohn]

could it have been in the storage container?

[stefalopod]

Now there is a real possibility. I used my water mixing bucket, which had some sand and moisture in the bottom. That definitely may have been the culprit. I'll test that theory the next time i mix up saltwater (I'll do it in a different bucket).

Thanks!

[Carty]

or just rinse it out a few times and use the same bucket :)

[saltaddict]

Now there is a real possibility. I used my water mixing bucket, which had some sand and moisture in the bottom. That definitely may have been the culprit. I'll test that theory the next time i mix up saltwater (I'll do it in a different bucket).

Thanks!

Don't mean to be rude but why would you use a dirty container to mix saltwater?

[stefalopod]

lol, I guess I didn't think it was dirty. My community college had a bunch of aquariums in the marine biology lab, and I was one of the tech people who worked on them. Everything in the fish room was always damp and sandy, so I guess it must be a bad habit I transferred over.

[stefalopod]

ah, ahaha, ahaHA HAHAHAHAHAAH!!!
*steeples fingers maniacally*

I got my turf scrubber built, and lamps built into the cabinet for the fuge. There's one on either side of the scrubber screen.
http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/scrubber.jpg
I went ahead and increased flow to the orb by %50 while I was at it too.

I used aluminum flashing tape to make the inside of the cabinet reflective, to bounce as much light onto the turf scrubber as possible.

I ordered a lamp on e-bay to use to light the orb, so that should be arriving in the next week or so.

All that's left is to build a cabinet door that will hide the scrubber and light, and frame out the tank... maybe this weekend. And then my build will be basically done =)

[stefalopod]

Oh man, yesterday was HOT in San Francisco, and my tank temp started to climb. I've been keeping it at about 82 and when I spotted the thermometer it was at 88. Not good!

I dropped some ice in and looked around my house for something to use as a fan. I eventually dismantled an old projector for its cooling fan and hooked it up to the 12v transformer for the little lightbulb the biorb came with. The temperature started going down immediately, and now it's right where it should be.

I'm really glad I did the research on cooling fans a few weeks ago, otherwise I would have had no idea how to do what I did last night.

I don't seem to have lost anything either. A lot of the snails climbed the turf scrubber or went and hung out in the overflow, I'm guessing it was cooler there.

The mushrooms look grumpy but they didn't bleach. Hopefully everything will go back to normal.

[Carty]

haha i love your DIY attitude :)

[CarmieJo]

Smart thinking! I was just seeing that all of CA is having record high temps and they are on their way east. I guess we all need to be prepared!

[stefalopod]

Thanks Carty and Carmie =)
-- In my family you didn't really get in trouble for dismantling things -- once I took a piano apart. That was suuuuper interesting. Such a cool machine!

Carmie, Advance preparation is probably a really good idea.
I'm going to go ahead and buy some freezer packs to wrap my tank in if it comes to that. I'll also buy a larger dedicated fan.

[CarmieJo]

I stuck to taking thinks like my bike and the car apart. :)

[rayme07]

Good thing your temp went down that was a smart idea you had. I know it has been hot it got to 90 where I am its crazy and this weekend its supposed to rain and get back down to the 60s again.

[stefalopod]

So I was watching my tank a little while ago, and I caught site of a very strange black worm thing with white bands around it.

I was concerned it might be a eunice (after seren's epic), so I flashed a white light at it, and it didn't retract as quickly as they say -- definitely not in the blink of an eye.

Instead it quickly, though gradually seemed to roll into itself from the tip toward its hole.

I watched it for a few minutes and it would roll out of itself, and eventually end in a feather duster-like head. It dragged its head over the live rock a bit, and then the head would retract back inward, almost like it was swallowing. I took some video, and tried to get some pics, but they're uninspiring to say the least.

[CarmieJo]

Did you read the Reefkeeper worm article there was a link to in seren's thread? It talked about lots of different worms...

[stefalopod]

Did you read the Reefkeeper worm article there was a link to in seren's thread? It talked about lots of different worms...

I did, I didn't see one that looked like this one though.

I found this diagram and it looks like it might be my worm, based on the shape of the proboscis and the tentacles around the mouth.
http://www.mesa.edu.au/friends/seashores/images/peanut_worm.gif

Here's a shot where you can just make out the mouth parts:
http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/worm2.jpg

It's actually a pretty neat looking creature. It stretches at least over two inches, and has these neat black and white bands:
You can just see the bands (and the mouth tentacles) beneath the glare.
http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/worm3.jpg
Warg, I waited for that shot for like ten minutes, and then I forgot to angle the camera.

[stefalopod]

Oh! Here's a good one! I clamped a headlamp over his hole with the red light on -- now I can see him all the time! Only he sucks back in as soon as I flash a pic. It takes a few minutes for him to come out after that.http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/worm4.jpg

[Carty]

so is he good or bad?

[stefalopod]

so is he good or bad?

Rumor is reef safe detritus eaters. There was a snail passing by when I first spotted it and they completely ignored eachother.

[stefalopod]

A HA! I totally found him!Worm Hitch Hikers (http://www.chucksaddiction.com/hitchworms.html) See Sipunculida Worms. That is definitely my worm!

[stefalopod]

More specifically: A Spineless Column: Peanuts (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-04/rs/index.php)

[stefalopod]

I wanted to show you guys how my system fits into my house.

I like to call this area my "library" =)
http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/library.jpg

[CarmieJo]

Stefani, good detective work! Peanut worms are definitely good guys! Speaking of good guys Chuck Rabbe is super. I've known Chuck for a couple years and he is a really nice person and a great asset to the hobby.

[rayme07]

Your tank fits great in your library. Looks great.

[sweetpea]

I like how you can see both the orb and the sump.

[stefalopod]

Thanks everyone! Once I get my house tidied up a little, I'll post a pick from my sitting room so you can see why I went with the 360 degree angle =)

[stefalopod]

Woo Hoo!
LFS fragged a star polyp for me for 5 bucks!

[CarmieJo]

GSP are very pretty and grow fast! I would keep their rock isolated so you can keep them where you want them.

[stefalopod]

GSP are very pretty and grow fast! I would keep their rock isolated so you can keep them where you want them.

Thanks Carmie =) That explains why LFS guy didn't hesitate to give me a piece.

He said that they lose against stinging corals, is that accurate?

[CarmieJo]

Yes I would say something like a galaxia would win over GSP although I haven't had any experience with them interacting. I had a baseball side rock covered in them in my nano before it crashed but that rock sat by itself in the foreground of the tank and nothing else was close enough to reach them.

[stefalopod]

So in preparation for my forth-coming trip to the south of France (aka leaving my system to my friends and neighbors for 2 weeks), I went ahead and ordered a Reef Keeper Light controller with switch module, 2 pc4s, temp probe (very accurate!) and pH probe.

I kinda wanted the elite system, since it's supposed to measure salinity (which would probably be the safest way to control an auto top off, right?) and you can hook it up to the internet and watch your levels from anywhere in the world, but that added several hundred dollars to the price tag,

so I went ahead and ordered the more modest version, which is now:

Controlling my heater and fan, so if there are any crazy weather spikes while I'm gone, the fan will turn on by itself, and we've already seen that just the fan will drop the temperature of the system at least 9 degrees (F).
Detecting water level, which will soon trigger a tom aquatics aqua lifter which then auto tops off evap.
Detecting moisture around my return pump, which used to be submerged but is now external to the system (I needed some space in my sump). I used a design to modify a smoke detector as a flood detector -- you just strip a couple milimeters off the end of the wires for your switch and then tape them to the inside of the container you want to detect floods in -- if any water pools, when the water reaches the exposed wires the conductivity of the water makes the connection, and triggers an alarm and a second tom aqua lifter which pushes the water back into the system.

I also finally got it together to complete two other projects:
I finally bought a tds meter -- I know it was silly to have waited this long, but I had a number of hang-ups that were in the way of me actually getting one (namely shipping, which is often more expensive than the cheaper TDS meters, and trying to decide whether to get a an inline meter, or a multifunction meter, which jacks up the price)
It turns out that San Francisco tap water has about 49 ppm TDS while my RODI unit produces water with about 15 ppm TDS. -- next I'll test the waste water!
I also finally put my system on a dedicated GFCI... I should have done it sooner, but there are no home depts in San Francisco and I didn't want to cross the bridge just to get a GFCI.

[CarmieJo]

I think that you need to check your RO/DI filter. You really should not have that high of TDS. I would check it after the RO and before the DI to see if the DI is exhausted or channeled.

[stefalopod]

I think that you need to check your RO/DI filter. You really should not have that high of TDS. I would check it after the RO and before the DI to see if the DI is exhausted or channeled.

Thanks Carmie =) I'll check it tomorrow.

[stefalopod]

Hey all,

Sorry for the long absence (finals, vacation, summer classes).

I got back from two weeks in the south of France one week ago. I left my system in the hands of my neighbor and a friend, and everything seems to have gone pretty well.

I was a little worried when I first walked in, the friend who was supposed to be refilling the ATO had left it for eight days and with the fans on full-time, something like four inches of water had evaporated off my sump... that's a lot of water in a 14 gal. system. Despite what must have been very high salinity, the fish the inverts seemed to be doing really well. There wasn't a thread of HA or slime in my sump, while the DT had a film of slime over the glass and one side of the rocks.

The Turf Scrubber over the sump had grown about a quarter inch of brown and green slime on either side of it, and I have to believe that things would have been much worse off for the system (under the circumstances) if I hadn't installed the turf scrubber... it must have trapped A LOT of nutrients.

Since so much of the water had evaporated that a fair amount of LR was high and dry, and I was worried for my peanut worm which had been out of the water for 3? 4? 5 days? and basically hopeless about my little Star Polyp frag that had been at the top of the LR to get lots of light. It was a little lower than the peanut, but had probably still been out of the water for a day or two. Despite the overwhelming urge to dump water in and fix the salinity and re-submerge the LR, I waited patiently and dripped half a gallon of RODI the first day. The second day I decided to mix fresh SW and add it to the system, reasoning that it was a lower salinity than what was in the tank but not as different as RODI, so I could add more more quickly than if I stuck with the RODI. I dripped it in over the course of many hours anyhow.

Mechanically speaking, everything worked according to plan. The intake for the return pump is low in the sump, and I have a float switch that kills the surface skimmer and triggers the ATO. The ATO is run off of a TOM aqualifter, which can move air about as efficiently as water and doesn't seem to have been at all damaged by several days of running dry.

So the slime in the DT basically lifted off in one big sheet, I went ahead and threw that out, and scrubbed some of the algae off the turf scrubber.

The Hi Fin seems to be doing great, he has a good appetite, and has taken over the rest of the orb as territory since the mysterious disappearance of his companion. He still mostly hangs out around the lower end of the tank, but sometimes you can find him perched amongst the LR toward the top. He tends to keep an eye on where the people are in the room, and has stopped hiding so much when guests come over.

The Peanut Worm survived... it's uncanny but I guess if they come in the rock, they must be able to tolerate some pretty adverse conditions. And since I've gotten home, I've found another peanut and a tiny vermetid.

A lot of purple coraline toward the top of the tank was exposed, but it's come back an even more striking shade of purple, and very much to my surprise, the Star Polyp that had been out of the water for who knows how long came back big and happy within a day of being re-submerged.

Many of the tiny hermits that I have in the sump traded their old shells for new ones I'd left along the bottom of the tank -- they had been killing each other for shells, so It was nice to come home and find that so many had moved houses peacefully.

Well that's about all of the news. I'm draining off a little bit of the over salty water at a time, and letting the ATO bring it back down little by little until it's back within range... the high salinity isn't visibly hurting anything, so I figured it would be better to take it slow.

Hugs!
-Stefani

[CarmieJo]

Hi Stefani, I'm glad you're back! It's good news that everything in your tank appears to be OK despite the increase in salinity.

[stefalopod]

Hi Stefani, I'm glad you're back! It's good news that everything in your tank appears to be OK despite the increase in salinity.

Thanks Carmie!

I'm considering it very lucky that everything seems to be doing well. ...I would kind of have no one to blame but myself, if everything had gone down hill, after all. Next time I'll be a little more careful about the emphasis I put on my vacation directions =)

[stefalopod]

I've got a small update since coming home to my highly evaporated system after two weeks vacation:

Everything seems to have survived nicely and is actually thriving.

I finally sorted out my lighting for the orb. I ended up buying a 40W 50/50 intended for the Eco Cube. What's special about this lamp is that the fluorescent tubes are turned to make two circular lamps, one inside the other. There's still some subtle shadowing around the edges of the LR in orb but overall it's getting plenty of light which produced Dun Da Daaaaa!!!

A lot of slime algae.
I found myself peeling sheets of slime algae off the rocks and the walls of the tank (which is tricky in a sphere). I was getting a lot of growth on the turf scrubber, but some how none at all in the display sump. Eventually between small water changes and a steady assault on the slime in the DT, everything seems to be under control.

I had a couple of mushrooms in the orb already that survived the hyper salinity and then the slime algae. They definitely took some adjusting before they started to get used to the 50/50, I had had them under one of those "daylight" spectrum compact fluorescents that pop into a regular light socket.

I finally moved the my five dollar GSP frag out of the display sump and into the Orb and now the little guy is having a party! I think it's actually grown, but it's hard to tell since it had never had such good polyp extension. The gentle movement of the return water seems to be enough to keep it happy. The little tips of its polyps will flex from time to time too.

So here's my Question:
I'm looking into getting a couple or a few more corals for my system. I'm looking for frags (because I can't get a big rock through the hole in the top of the sphere). And I'm hoping to get suggestions on varieties that like gentle water flow and will be happy with a 40W 50/50 4-8 inches away.

I've been looking at the nano frag packs at liveaquaria but what with shipping, that's kind of a hard hit to take. Any suggestions are very welcome! Thanks!

[Iron E]

I found a "local" guy in Chico, Ca. (On Craigs List. Searching "frags") that has quite an extensive home coral propagation set-up. His prices are very reasonable (downright cheap) and he is super anal about keeping everything perfect. (A bit of a fuss-budget actually) I would imagine you could find someone similar in the Bay Area.

[stefalopod]

Thanks! I've been scoping BA craigslist, but I'm still not super clear on what kinds of corals I should venture into.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for someone like that though =)

[stefalopod]

Woo Hoo!

I swung by my LFS this afternoon. I picked up a $20 zoa frag and he threw in a few broken off pieces of an SPS for free!

He wasn't sure I'd have enough light, but he said he couldn't sell them, so he just tossed them in. He also gave me another frag that a customer brought in. I'll set them up and then ask for an id if I get some polyp extension.

[rayme07]

Awesome congrats. I cant wait for the pics. :)

[stefalopod]

Ok, here's the shots of the new corals:

First an FTS:

http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/P7131029.jpg

Here's a close up of the zoa I bought: It got happy within about fifteen minutes of introducing it.
Any Ideas what it might be?

http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/P7131032.jpg

And then the LFS threw in these two frags (there's a third one like the one on the left on the other side of the orb).

http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/P7131031.jpg

You can see some polyp extension on the one on the right (Apparently a customer gave it to him). I can't see any on the one on the left, but it looked just like you see it at the LFS. Is it supposed to look like that? The guy called it a "staghorn."

As you can deduce, I didn't quarantine any of these. The ten gallon tank destined for QT under my sink ended up being emptied of water and then filled with miscellaneous fish stuff. My house is too small.

The LFS guy keeps his corals segregated from his fish, which are segregated from his inverts. I know he doses the fish with copper. I make it a practice to make sure none of the LFS water gets into my tank. It's kinda the best I can do ATM.

Let me know if you guys recognize these! Or if you have any idea whether the "staghorn" is looking like it ought to.

Thanks!

Oh! and here's a shot of Chaz and my blue shroom!

http://www.infourthsector.com/biorb_project/P7131035.jpg

[rayme07]

Your tank is looking good.:up: The Zoe's actually look like palys. The SPS's I have no clue. :)

[stefalopod]

Your tank is looking good.:up: The Zoe's actually look like palys. The SPS's I have no clue. :)

Thanks! Once everything's settled in, I'll take some time to arrange things so it doesn't look quite so crowded.

I just looked up Palythoa. You're probably right. The LFS guy warned me to wash my hands if I touch them because they're toxic.

[CarmieJo]

The corals look good! I think the one on the right may be an encrusting gorgonian called Erythropodium caribaeorum. Does it look pink and rather smooth when the polyps are retracted? Coralpedia - Erythropodium caribaeorum (http://coralpedia.bio.warwick.ac.uk/en/octocorals/erythropodium_caribaeorum.html). If that is what it is it isn't an SPS but a softie growing on a coral skeleton. It doesn't really need a lot of light so you could even move it lower in your tank. I have one and it has never grown out of control although I was was told it can.

There are frequent threads about palyotoxin. Some people do have a reaction to it (even after years of not reacting) and there may be rare occasions where an individual has a serious reaction to it. On the other hand, I have zoas that look just like that an have never encountered any problems. I don't necessarily thing that washing your hands would prevent absorbing palyotoxin but wearing gloves when handling any coral and eye protection when fragging is a good idea.

That is not to say that it is not good practice to wash your hands after working in your tank. I have several friends who have contracted mycobacterium from working in their tanks and I think this is an even better reason to practice good hygiene.

[rayme07]

I just looked up Palythoa. You're probably right. The LFS guy warned me to wash my hands if I touch them because they're toxic.


Yep If you touch or frag any Zoe or poly it is always smart to wash your hands. Plus you could always where gloves to, to get extra protection especially when fragging. :)

[stefalopod]

The corals look good! I think the one on the right may be an encrusting gorgonian called Erythropodium caribaeorum. Does it look pink and rather smooth when the polyps are retracted?
That's exactly what it looks like! Looking closely at it it looks like a creature that's encrusting the rock. I was wondering how a coral could get to looking like that. =)

Thanks for the info! I think I'll clip off the bit of LR it's on and glue it onto one of my rocks. I'll move it further down like you suggested. =)


There are frequent threads about palyotoxin. Some people do have a reaction to it (even after years of not reacting) and there may be rare occasions where an individual has a serious reaction to it. On the other hand, I have zoas that look just like that an have never encountered any problems. I don't necessarily thing that washing your hands would prevent absorbing palyotoxin but wearing gloves when handling any coral and eye protection when fragging is a good idea.

Thanks for the info. I got a little worried when I first read about that, but you've set me more at ease.

[stefalopod]

Yep If you touch or frag any Zoe or poly it is always smart to wash your hands. Plus you could always where gloves to, to get extra protection especially when fragging. :)

I'm sure that soon I'll start to catch that bug, but I need to do a little research on fragging before I dive in headlong =) -- I've never done it before, but I think I'll invest in gloves and goggles before I start.

Thanks Rayme!

[stefalopod]

Ok, I ordered some fragging materials. I think I'll break apart the Zoa and move some pieces around the tank.

Strange things: When I introduced the new corals the GSP got unhappy within a few hours. It hasn't bounced back it. Any ideas? I think I'll move the zao further away, in case it's blocking any light (doesn't look like it, but you never know).

Also, there seems to be some little itty bitty star shaped polyp extension on the maroon stony coral. I don't think it'll photograph well, since we're talking a millimeter across, and it's exactly the same color as the rest of the coral.

The gorgonian looks happy. I haven't moved it yet, since I was letting everything settle in.