T5 vs MH Lighting

[saltaddict]

HI all - I am looking for your expertise on a lighting solution for the Vista tank I am waiting on.

I am building a permanent cabinet over the top of the tank that will house a vertical sliding platform that will hold the lighting for the tank. The tank is L shaped with dimensions of 48X48X30 and will have 5 - 6 inch sandbed. I want to have the option of keeping a variety of corals and animals without limits.

First thought - 16 - 18 T5's ranging in size from 48" down to 24"

Second thought - 3 - 150W MH pendents with T5's for actinic.

Please give me your opinions.

Thanks,
Rhonda

[Pat]

i personally like the way t5s look, and they dont kill your wallet

[Phurst]

Either should suit you fine, however, if you go the T5 route, you'll need to use individual reflectors on the tubes to get the light into the tank. Without reflectors, they're really not much better than PCs.

[saltaddict]

Thanks Phurst - I forgot to list that each bulb would have its own reflector.

Which option do you think will run with the least amount of electricity?

[Phurst]

I'm pretty sure a watt is a watt, so how many watts of T5s? More than 450?

[sunny d polyp]

Hello saltaddict, I just set up a 75/gal invert and bought an Orbit X-treme 48 inch 8X54 watts and it lights up the neighbor hood it's so bright. It also blows some serious heat from the fans so I'm not sure it would be good under a canopy. To me it's as bright as my canopy with 2 150HQI M H, I'm hoping it doesn't shock my corals so I am leaving the lights on less for now until they adjust.

[saltaddict]

Hello saltaddict, I just set up a 75/gal invert and bought an Orbit X-treme 48 inch 8X54 watts and it lights up the neighbor hood it's so bright. It also blows some serious heat from the fans so I'm not sure it would be good under a canopy. To me it's as bright as my canopy with 2 150HQI M H, I'm hoping it doesn't shock my corals so I am leaving the lights on less for now until they adjust.

Thanks Sunny D Polyp! How much heat is you MH putting off under the canopy?

I have T-5's under a canopy on my current tank and they are hot.

[sunny d polyp]

Salt I don't have them under a canopy, my light just sits on the rim of my tank. The exit side of my fan is probably (can't check now the lights are out) 110/115F, I will check tomorrow when I get home from work and give you a more accurate reading.

[tdkarl]

so what lights did you get saltaddict? I am trying t figure out what to put on mine.

[saltaddict]

I am going to run UVL T5's with Ice Cap 660 ballast. I am hoping to fit 16 bulbs with 4 ballast under the hood but I may only achieve 12.
I am currently working on the stand and canopy which will all be one big cabinet so it will be a little bit before they are fired and running.

I just don't really want the heat of MH. I could certainly get out cheaper by running 3 - 250 MH and a VHO blues but I would then spend it on electricity to run a chiller non stop.

[sunny d polyp]

So true salt, when we changed from MH to the T-5's out power bill went down about $35.00 or $40.00. I was concerned about how the corals would react and there was no noticeable difference and with the combination of the bulbs we still had the iridescence. The bulbs were not cheap we bought Geisman 54 watt, we had just the stock lights but did not like the way they made the tank look, so we bought new ones.

[ryandlf]

From all the research i've done on the comparison between T5 and MH, the overall consensus seems to be that at first everyone is a die hard Halide fan, swearing by them, then when they try the T5's out it changes opinions, and I think most people don't notice much difference. I hear good things about the MH "shimmer" effect, and I will admit that maintaining one or two bulbs would be easier than say 6 or 8 T5's. I've been nothing but impressed with my T5's though. Personally I think they are the wave of the future...in the average price bracket anyways for now.

[saltaddict]

My alter egos keeps pulling me back and forth between the T5 and MH. I currently have T5's and I like them and while they do put off some heat, I am sure it is not near what the MH will put off.
My goal is to be able to keep anything I want in the new tank without having to run a chiller. The new stand will have built in port holes in the bottom to house 4 fans and the top will also have 4 fans. We keep our AC set on 76 during the day time and 75 at night during the warm months so I am hoping to keep a chiller out of the electrical mix.
I am trying to keep the electric bill under $800 per month.

[CarmieJo]

I am trying to keep the electric bill under $800 per month.:eek::eek::eek:

[ryandlf]

$800 a month!?! My electric bill is like $100! Then again I do live in NC so maybe our beautiful weather plays a bit of a roll. I was listening on the radio the other day to people calling in from the North who were talking about outragous gas bills like that in the North during the winter.

[saltaddict]

$800 a month!?! My electric bill is like $100! Then again I do live in NC so maybe our beautiful weather plays a bit of a roll. I was listening on the radio the other day to people calling in from the North who were talking about outragous gas bills like that in the North during the winter.

My husbands family live in IN and my brother in PA and they do have high gas bills for heating their homes.

Our electric bill has been steady through the winter around $350 - please remember we have gas heating, gas stoves, cook top and hot water heater. The rest is electric.
Our swimming pool runs 10 hrs per day all summer long and then in the winter it runs 4 hours per day and anytime the temp drops below 35 degrees.
We do have 6 people in the house, I do upwards of 20 loads of laundry per week, the dish washer runs every day, sometimes twice per day, everyone has a computer and tv/cable box and such and we do have two floors both with their own AC units.

I must admit - four years ago we needed a new roof after a big storm so I did what everyone does - I picked out the roof that went "Best" with the color of my brick. I have a jet black roof that is hotter than HECK - how do I know..... I went up there to paint and eve of the house, ( I don't wear shoes on the roof because they are slippery), my feet burned through my socks!!

Any who - that is why I try to avoid using the chiller.

[tdkarl]

my elect bill is around $500 (water and electric) in fl and i have a pool. And we have 6 people living in our house. with triplets our laundry machine and dryer is constantly running 24/7. So from what i hear its going to be about $30-$40 a month to run my two MH's. I know I am going to get blasted for this next comment but I will say it anyway, I think most people who can afford a tank large enough to need MH, can usually afford to run them on a monthly basis if you consider how much other money we sink into a tank 2000-3000 (thats prob the low end) just to get the tank setup, plumbed, filtered and lights on it. And not that its necessarily always the case but I think it is probably true for the most part. Not that I feel good about using that much electricity my wife is going to have a fit when she see the first electric bill after I install them.

I wish I would have kept all the reciepts for all the money I have spent on this hobby, its gota be insane!!!!!

Its kind of a shame, I am sure the expense of setting one up keeps allot of people from trying it. But then again it is harder to do so you have to be dedicated just to follow through so maybe its good its a little high of an investment, otherwise more people who weren't dedicated would be setting them up and just killing marine fish when they realize the amount of work it takes.

I wonder how long after the initial investment of LED's you start to save money? I am just guessing here but if it costs 30-40 a month to run MH ($450 a year w/ bulbs), 20 for T5's ($300 w/ bulbs) and say 10 a month ($120 zero bulbs) to run a LED.

[saltaddict]

Tony - I have to disagree about it being a shame that the expense keeps a lot of people from setting sw tanks up.

If it was easy, cheap and accessible then think of all of the dead fish, coral and inverts that people would go through because they didn't take the time to research. I am not saying that people whom can afford it don't jump in now and kill a lot of animals but there would be so many more.

It is not a matter of affording the electric bill, it is a matter of principal and sound economic reasoning.

I have also done our carbon footprint and I can tell you that it was not pretty nor was it responsible as Earthlings and I am also trying to change some of that.

[rayme07]

Its kind of a shame, I am sure the expense of setting one up keeps allot of people from trying it.


Tony - I have to disagree about it being a shame that the expense keeps a lot of people from setting sw tanks up.


Its not all in the exspence when people think about getting a marine tank its the bad rap that goes around about marine tanks that gets people not to want them. Most people I have met always ask the same question "Is it hard to take care of" or "what type of care does it take" their last question is how much is it. Normally its having to take care of the tank constantly that gets them not to want one. The fact is most people are to lazy to want to take care of fish and wait 2 weeks to a month just to have fish. All they want is to do is fill up a tank and put fish in and that's why most people like FW. And that is why most people get out of the hobbie as soon as they get in because they are to lazy or cant handle taking care of something on a regular basis. But that's my view. :)

[CarmieJo]

We have an all electric home except for a set of gas logs in the living room and our power is about $200 a month. No pool but we do have a hot tub. We are on equal payment and it went down about $25 a month the next time it was adjusted after I got the Solaris. I think the majority of that was the chiller since my PC fixture used about the same number of watts as the Solaris does. I'm glad NC has cheap energy!!!

[Missy]

Hi Saltaddict, how many gallons is a 48 x 48 x 30? I am wondering how much light I need to add to a 150 gallon to keep most corals. I have a 48" nova extreme 4 x 54w and was going to add T5HO with Ind. Reflectors, how many do I need?

[Pat]

best way fit as many as you could haha for sps youl need alot of light

[saltaddict]

We have an all electric home except for a set of gas logs in the living room and our power is about $200 a month. No pool but we do have a hot tub. We are on equal payment and it went down about $25 a month the next time it was adjusted after I got the Solaris. I think the majority of that was the chiller since my PC fixture used about the same number of watts as the Solaris does. I'm glad NC has cheap energy!!!

Wow - maybe we need to move - How cold do you get and for how long??

I just heard on the news Friday night that our rates would be doubled by summer!!! Maybe its time to fill in the pool and make a new flower bed, wear disposable clothing, go back to snail mail and make everyone limit themselves to one shower per day!!!

[saltaddict]

Hi Saltaddict, how many gallons is a 48 x 48 x 30? I am wondering how much light I need to add to a 150 gallon to keep most corals. I have a 48" nova extreme 4 x 54w and was going to add T5HO with Ind. Reflectors, how many do I need?

The tank is 170g and I plan on cramming as many lights w/ref. as will possibly fit. Honestly I think you would get more light out of the Ice Cap Ballast 660 with the UVL bulbs then you are out of the Nova Fixture. What are you tank dimensions?

Each IC660 ballast will run 4 bulbs so it will be some expense up front but I think it will be worth it.

I haven't seen you on in a while - how is the tank coming along?

[Missy]

The tank is 170g and I plan on cramming as many lights w/ref. as will possibly fit. Honestly I think you would get more light out of the Ice Cap Ballast 660 with the UVL bulbs then you are out of the Nova Fixture. What are you tank dimensions?

Each IC660 ballast will run 4 bulbs so it will be some expense up front but I think it will be worth it.

I haven't seen you on in a while - how is the tank coming along?

We have all been getting over the flu and now colds around here. The tank is looking good, just starting to loose the algae. I am going to try and get some pictures to post today. I will check out that lighting. The lfs will five me $200 off this fixtureIncredible Aquarium (http://incredibleaquariumonline.com/store/index.php?cPath=30_52&sort=2a&page=2), 36" TEK lights x 2 or I was looking at Catalina Aquarium Solar T5 (http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/index.php?cPath=71_136&page=2), 36" 6 or 8 solar T5.

Are there any pictures yet of your new tank?

[sunny d polyp]

Has anyone ever tried to figure out the energy consumption of culturing your own small scale phyto, rotifer and tigger pod production? I have 3X36 inch T-12's, 1X36 inch T-8 and 1X36 T-5 set up for my 3 phytos Tet, T-iso and Nano O that run 24/7, along with my roti's and tiggers. Also the two air pumps that supply every thing, it is an expensive hobby no doubt but like Salt said "if it were cheap and easy there would be a lot of carnage, instead we have dedication up the ying yang (almost certifiable anal retentiveness) and love for the hobby that drives us to no end. There has to be a special place in heaven for my wife whom puts up with all I do. :thumbs:

[saltaddict]

Has anyone ever tried to figure out the energy consumption of culturing your own small scale phyto, rotifer and tigger pod production? I have 3X36 inch T-12's, 1X36 inch T-8 and 1X36 T-5 set up for my 3 phytos Tet, T-iso and Nano O that run 24/7, along with my roti's and tiggers. Also the two air pumps that supply every thing, it is an expensive hobby no doubt but like Salt said "if it were cheap and easy there would be a lot of carnage, instead we have dedication up the ying yang (almost certifiable anal retentiveness) and love for the hobby that drives us to no end. There has to be a special place in heaven for my wife whom puts up with all I do. :thumbs:

I would think if you took each electrical item and found out the watts per hour that it uses and multiply that by the number of hours it runs then go to Standby Power / Vampire Power -- Ask Mr. Electricity (http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/vampire.html) and there is a calculator there that will convert and tell you how many kilowatt hours you are using per item and how much it cost per month based on how much you are paying per kilowatt hour.

That is how I find out since I am a dumb dumb when it comes to that junk.

I don't think "almost" certifiable is accurate - we are "Definitely" certifiable.

I too know there is a special place in Heaven for my husband if he doesn't do me in first and end up down under!!

[sunny d polyp]

hehe Salt, when I tell my wife the next new endeavor that I have to try she gets this far-away glazey look, almost like she may be trying to acquire strength not to reach out and place her delicate fingers in a state of contraction around the part that connects my head and chest together.

I think I may have over did my T-5 fixture, I went from a 46/bow with 6X39 watts to a 75 with 8X54 watts. I had the new lights on the same time as the 6X39's and nothing is looking very good. My Duncan and torch expelled their zoanthella and most of my shrooms have retreated to the size of raisins. I knocked the time down to 5 hours for the day bulbs and 7 hours for the actinics. I noticed today that there is some improvement, not much tho. Everything seems to happen at once I came home yesterday and 2/3rds of my T-iso's have crashed along with my 4 cultures of rotifers and 1/gal of tiggers. Looks like I had a temp problem in the room, we had a temp of 86 yesterday and I did not turn the fan or the a/c, because it was 50F when I left for work yesterday. It can be very frustrating sometimes and this is not the first time I have felt like taking a break, but I can't imagine giving the hobby up completely. The strange thing is my Nano and Tet are fine at least so far, I just split the T iso Saturday so I have a starter flask in the fridge at least I can restart it.

[saltaddict]

Wow Sunny D - that stinks.

My advice would be to take the time you use to run the 39watts and divide by 2 and this is the amount of time I would run the 54w for three days. Each day after that increase by 30 minutes until you reach your preferred time.

This will give your corals and such time to adjust to the new lighting and ease into the "LIGHT".

I would also make sure I didn't have any coral too close to the top of the tank that is not a light lover.

It will be fine once the tank is acclimated to the new lighting and the corals will love it - in a few weeks.

You must live in Texas!!

[CarmieJo]

Wow - maybe we need to move - How cold do you get and for how long??

I just heard on the news Friday night that our rates would be doubled by summer!!! Maybe its time to fill in the pool and make a new flower bed, wear disposable clothing, go back to snail mail and make everyone limit themselves to one shower per day!!! We are pretty energy and environmentally conscious. :) Pick up a P3 - Kill A Watt (http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html) to see where you are wasting energy.

Coming from OH I basically think that it never gets that cold here. I guess the average day temperature in the winter (Dec, Jan, Feb) is about 50 and down around freezing at night. It is not unusual for it to get up into the 70's this time of the year. It is pretty hot and humid in summer (June, July, Aug) days in the 80's and nights in the 70's. There will be several days in the summer where it hits 100 and a few days in the winter where it doesn't go above freezing.

We run ceiling fans year around to save on heating and cooling costs, have CF bulbs in everything and buy all Energy Star appliances. Most laundry is washed in cold water in a front loading washer. Our water heater is 15 years old and I think we are going to replace it with a solar one this summer. We will also replace the 15 year old heat pumps with the most efficient ones when they fail. We have been trying to teach ourselves to shut down the computers every night. We also have the big TV/home theater/Wii on a powerstrip that gets turned off when no one is watching it.

[saltaddict]

Carmie - it sounds like the main difference between our energy usage is the outside temp.

We also use all energy star appliances, front loader washer, we even had all of our windows replaced two years ago and our house is only 9 yrs old now. We also had vinyl siding put on all wood surfaces on the house and ridge vents installed on both floors. I think our "BLACK" roof, swimming pool and the cost of electricity here is the culprit!

[sunny d polyp]

I live in North Central Fl., anyone ever heard of the Fl. Gators? :cool:

[DCisGnar]

I live in North Central Fl., anyone ever heard of the Fl. Gators? :cool:

I hear ya on that one

[CarmieJo]

Are housing values in your area similar to the Houston area? I thought my brother got a lot more house there than he would have here.

[saltaddict]

Are housing values in your area similar to the Houston area? I thought my brother got a lot more house there than he would have here.

I think the upper areas like King Wood Estates (i think that is its name) and Conroe are similar. Where we are the going rate right now is $97 - $110 per square ft. In better market times it was $105 - $125 per square ft.

We are in what was rated one of the top places to live in some poll last year, (can't remember the name of it), and we are in one of the top school districts in Texas so out sq ft prices are higher than most "Dallas" areas.

[CarmieJo]

I'm guessing that our house is smaller (we have about 2000 sq ft) than yours since we only have 3 people. :) http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/CarmieJo/DSC_3169.jpg
Housing values vary wildly in our area. A year ago you could buy a house in a good neighborhood for a $110-125 or so a sq ft. These houses are now a little less. But we now have lots of executive neighborhoods where they cost double or triple that and I understand that these homes haven't taken the hit that more modestly priced ones have.

You can see that we don't live in one of the executive homes.

[saltaddict]

Cute house Carmie! I have never understood why they build with brick down here and more wood upwards in the country. It may be because of how the wood would take such a beating with the heat - I personally like the wood homes.

When we bought we only had 30 days to buy and move so we bought a spec home and then immediately started looking at other homes. Of course, time got away and we had already put in a pool and I had put in a lot of man hours. labor and money on landscaping and I was not up for moving. I was almost swayed when they built a neighborhood out here that has 5000 sq ft and up but then I thought about who would have to clean it!

We are staying right where we are, my oldest will be starting college next year and the next in line two years behind her and when they have spread their wings we will be left with two empty rooms.

The homes here that are in the exec neighborhood are taking the hardest hit. The banks loaned people whom make $100,000 per year money to buy $600,000 homes and they were making interest only payments for the first 5 yrs then when the five years were up and their new payments were up around $3500 a month they could not make them. It is very sad on both parts because the banks knew these people could not afford those homes in 5 years and the home owners also knew what they were getting into.

[rayme07]

Carmie, Rhonda very nice homes. :)

[JustDavidP]

Does anyone have any leads as to where to find the best deals on T-5 Retrofits?? Online..

Dave

[saltaddict]

Does anyone have any leads as to where to find the best deals on T-5 Retrofits?? Online..

Dave

Marine Depot so far is the best I have found on the 4 bulb IC 660 that you can overdrive bulbs on.

[saltaddict]

Carmie, Rhonda very nice homes. :)

Thanks Ray.

[lReef lKeeper]

Does anyone have any leads as to where to find the best deals on T-5 Retrofits?? Online..

Dave

try Reef Specialty - Reef Specialty (http://www.reefspecialty.com)

[CarmieJo]

The homes here that are in the exec neighborhood are taking the hardest hit. The banks loaned people whom make $100,000 per year money to buy $600,000 homes and they were making interest only payments for the first 5 yrs then when the five years were up and their new payments were up around $3500 a month they could not make them. It is very sad on both parts because the banks knew these people could not afford those homes in 5 years and the home owners also knew what they were getting into.I think that this is awful. Of course you should know if you make $100,000 you can't afford a $600,000 house but then the lenders can be very persuasive! When we were looking for a house the loan officer kept trying to tell us we could "afford" more! And we kept saying that we like to eat too. :)

[saltaddict]

I think that this is awful. Of course you should know if you make $100,000 you can't afford a $600,000 house but then the lenders can be very persuasive! When we were looking for a house the loan officer kept trying to tell us we could "afford" more! And we kept saying that we like to eat too. :)

It is very sad on both parts. My husband is involved in the clean up of a mortgage division and the results of the real estate down fall are unbelievable.
Heck, we eat more than we pay for our home - THAT IS SICK!

I had no idea that you could pay interest only on a mortgage for the first three to five years of the loan until some friends that lived a few streets over decided to sell and upgrade to a bigger home and they told me they were "upside" down on their home.

[CarmieJo]

When we have an exchange student our grocery bill is higher than the mortgage.

[Carty]

Brick is a much better heat conducter (absorbing in the winter to keep warm, and blocking in the summer to keep cool)

I don't get what every one is talking about with T5's and MH and the shimmer effect... I have a shimmer effect in my tank and I run t5's... I just put in 5 white LED's and boom, shimmer... I leave them on at the same time as my daylights

[penny]

I recently purchased a T5 48inch fixture ,my fish are asking for shades lol.I can finaly have prettys in my aquarium.This fixture has a reflecter all the way around it .The price $327.90 ship and tax included.I only wish i could have my actinic on a seperate timer.Husband is an electriction he might figure out a way around this .Hope this helps .oh also,get a small fan there will be some increase in heat but not too bad.Under the canopy is a great place to let home made bread dough rise.,saves electricity.

[john_waggs]

Saltaddict,

I have a 120 Gal tank w/ 6 T5's. I use one 660 IceCap Ballast for the 4 lights, and use another Icecap 220? ballast (not sure of the number for this one) for the two remaining bulbs. I use the smaller ballast to run my dusk/dawn lighting, and the other ballast turns on to run the remaining 4 lights. My tank is extremely bright and doesn't get too hot. My hood in enclosed on the 3 sides and open in the back. I have two fans that draw air in on the sides of the hood and two fans that draw air out the top of the hood (towards the back of the tank). The fans have a heat sensor that speed up when the temp goes up and then slow down when the temp is lower. The sensors are mounted inside my hood. I don't use a chiller and my water temp was a steady 78d. That was until I got a UV Sterilzer, now my temp is at 80. The fans shut off at night when my lights go off. The temp remains at about 80 overnight due to the UV staying on, then when the lights come back on with the fan, the temp remains at 80.

I think 6 bulbs are definitely enough to light the tank BRIGHTLY during the day and I could have any corals with this set up.

I hope this helps, even though you probably have purchased your lights by now.

[saltaddict]

Thanks John.

Can I ask what are the dimensions of your tank?
Actually - my new build has taken a back seat to graduation prep for my daughter - it takes up a lot of time!

If I ever get enough time to get started again I am going with the IC660 but I just don't know how many bulbs yet due to the shape of the tank.

[john_waggs]

My tank is 48"x24"x24".