sump/refuge help

[henry]

I currently have a 29 gal saltwater tank and am in the process of placing a 10 gal refugium underneath the 29. I have limited knowledge of how, and what I should do. I know I need an overflow and a pump pumping water back up, but for exact specs I am at a loss. If anyone has any good info, or can suggest (hopefully step-by-step) a surefire way to make a refuge/sump please help.

[Rob]

well, there are some decision, if you are making a sump its pretty easy, but if you are doing a refugium, you are going o need some baffles installed.
these are simply pieces of plexi-glass cut to fit, and siliconed in
with a 10 gallon it might be tough as you dont have much room to work with.

but for the return, you will need a pump that has a lower GPH rating than the over flow you get, with that tank anything up to 800 GPH will be fine, more than that and it might be too strong .

let me know if you have more specific questions

[henry]

How would i know how much water flow (the gph rating) thats going in to the sump?
And i'm still not sure exactly what i need to make the sump, other than the overflow which im most likely going to buy off the internet, the baffles ,and the return pump

[V]

hey henry, how are u buddy. ive listed a few links for u, have a read, just use them as a rough guide, and if u have anymore questions, we are more than happy to help out
http://www.melevsreef.com/sump.html
http://www.dursostandpipes.com/
http://ozreef.org/diy_links/list/onecat/
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/plumbing_faq.php
http://www.spearsmfg.com/how_to/FG-3B-0105_0105_English.pdf

[Scott]

Hi Henry,

I used a 20 gal long tank and got some plexiglass, I cut the plexiglass into sections about 9" high and fit them into the tank and used aquarium silicon to secure them. I think I spaced the baffles about 1" apart, as it was my first attempt at doing this it wasn't the best silicone job and the spacing is a bit off. But here is a pic of what it looked like when I finished and started using it.

http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/gallery/files/2/0/9/sump_2-17-06.jpg

[henry]

thanks for the help:cool:

[WRECK DIVER 61]

Scot I dont understand, Im new to the hobby. What it looks like to me is live rock and sand. How is this differant than what you have in your show .tank

[WRECK DIVER 61]

do you keep carbon or any other type of filtration?

[Rob]

Scot I dont understand, Im new to the hobby. What it looks like to me is live rock and sand. How is this differant than what you have in your show .tank
first off, its more of it.. which leads to additional filtration.
second, it being a refugium, it provides a safe place for various pods to reproduce free of immediate predation.
and third, when lit on a reverse photo-period (lit when your tnak lights are off, and off when your tank lights are on) it provides additional PH stability

hope that helps.. :)

[JR Aquatics]

The main question is what type of tank are you setting up? Reef or fish only? Scott has a refugium set up, this is used to provide an undesterbed location for pods and other beneficial organisms to reproduce and multiply to your main tank. He also has a deep sandbed for further filtration purposes. If it's just the fish you are interested in then build or buy your self a wet dry filter (bioballs) and a good protein skimmer. But please do not use bioballs with a reef set up because it is a nitrate factory.

[Scott]

Scot I dont understand, Im new to the hobby. What it looks like to me is live rock and sand. How is this differant than what you have in your show .tank

First off, WELCOME to TR! :D

I put some live rock down there since I didn't want the extra in the display. I do have live sand in there, as Rob mentioned it adds to the filtration. The pic I had posted was a from earlier this year. Below is a recent pic I just took not too long ago. You can see that the cheato (macro algae) has just grown by leaps and bounds from the pic in the previous post. And there are plenty of pods running around inside of it. I also moved the live rock to the first section of the sump/fuge and I have started to convert over to a deep sandbed in the refugium section. Originally I only had 3 inches of LS, but I'm getting it over to 4.5 - 5 inches deep.

http://scottsplace.homeip.net/aquarium/sump_4-30-06a.jpg

http://scottsplace.homeip.net/aquarium/sump_4-30-06b.jpg

[Scott]

do you keep carbon or any other type of filtration?

Sorry, forgot to answer this in the other post. No, I do not run any carbon or anything else (other than a skimmer).

I did have some carbon in my sump after I treated it for flatworms (when flatworms die they release toxins), but other than that....I haven't run carbon.

[V]

im somewhat old school in regards to carbon and phos-sorb.
i run it a couple days a month! maybe a linger habit from the fresh water i haven't seem to drop! i just dont want anything to accumulate that other forms fail to remove, although carbon might have a total stripping effect!

[WRECK DIVER 61]

Scott I think you cleared something up for me. I couldnt figure out what was growing in my tank, but now I think its pods?
I have a 29 gall. tank that I had a few problems with in the begining but now looks ok.
its fwlr about 30 snails/crabs for clean up, I got them to clean up the algae
2 clowns,bicolor angle, sand sifter and thats about it.
in some spots I have a 3" sand bed in some 1/2" depending on how my clowns want to place it that day.
could it be that they are pods? if so what are they?

[Scott]

Scott I think you cleared something up for me. I couldnt figure out what was growing in my tank, but now I think its pods?


Sorry for the delay in my reply...just got back from SWU. I'll find a few pics of pods and post tomorrow...err...later today after I wake up. LOL

[NaClFinatic]

I am planning to make a sump/refugium from a 30g long, something like what Scott has done. But I have heard others say not to use silicon with acrylic. I figure it would be just fine for some baffles and I could easily cut plexi any way I wanted. I could cut teeth to help keep the snails in the fuge. How is the plexiglass with silicon working out for you Scott?

I have heard some reccommend have a lower flow in the refugium. That seems like a good idea because I don't really want to just flush all the pods out. I hope they can maintain themselves so I could have a mandarin. I am considering running the return in the middle and just having a smaller pump put some water into the fuge for that to flow back into the return. Anyone have thoughts on that? Thanks

[Scott]

NaClFinatic, Welcome to Talkingreef!


How is the plexiglass with silicon working out for you Scott?

So far so good, it's all holding up. Just wish I wasn't so sloppy with my silicon job. :)


I have heard some reccommend have a lower flow in the refugium. That seems like a good idea because I don't really want to just flush all the pods out. I hope they can maintain themselves so I could have a mandarin. I am considering running the return in the middle and just having a smaller pump put some water into the fuge for that to flow back into the return. Anyone have thoughts on that? Thanks

If you want, instead of using a small pump to get water into the fuge, you could just split ( Y ) your overflow line. That way you have some of the water drop right into the fuge section (use a ball valve to limit the flow), and the majority of the flow drop into the "sump" section...with your return pump in the center section.

[wildeone]

Welcome to TR NaCL, I did a 20 long fuge with baffles and I went and got 1/8" glass at a local glass shop. I had them make the cuts custom and it cost less than $25.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i233/wildeone/P1010025.jpg

I detailed all of my work in my journal (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=673), there may be stuff htere to help you out.

[CarmieJo]

Hi NaClFinatic,

:welcome: to TR.

[Scott]

Welcome to TR NaCL, I did a 20 long fuge with baffles and I went and got 1/8" glass at a local glass shop. I had them make the cuts custom and it cost less than $25.

Duane, your's looks really good. Maybe I should have you drive up here and re-do my 20 long. :rolleyes:

[wildeone]

Naw, yours looks great man not much difference, mine just looks good in that pic because it is new and unused. And you would want me to drive up when the weather is nice like in January right?

[Scott]

Naw, yours looks great man not much difference, mine just looks good in that pic because it is new and unused. And you would want me to drive up when the weather is nice like in January right?

Yeah, I guess things always look better on the other side of the fence. But I do like the design...you have more space since you only went with one set of baffles. I've thought of removing a few of my dividers...but don't know if I will. I'll probably just figure out a way to add a second fuge. LOL

Sure you could make the trip in either January or February...March at the latest. LOL

[NaClFinatic]

Thanks for the feedback. Those are great sump/fuges. Scott, good point to split the overflow with a valve. I spent the last hour plus reading your journal. How exciting! I can't wait to get started. Ive been reading everything for a couple months, but need to finish some work on the house first to keep the wife happy and supportive, then complete my basement office where the tank will go. It seems so far away!

[Rob]

my last fuge was acrylic and silicone. worked fine for me...
also check out daves supfugium (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218) thread for more info and ideas

and Welcome to TR saltfanactic, i mean NaClFanatic.. ;)

[V]

welcome NaCl Aka Rock Salt Aka "THE ROCK"
there's a chemist in all of us> nice stucture to assimulate

actually, i dont belive i have seen your brother CsCl.
he's still a lurker, he has a great atom structure as well

[NaClFinatic]

"The sump that Dave built" is great. I wish I had room for a huge fuge but I will need to fit it all under a 90g.

What would Cesium Cloride be used for?

[JustDavidP]

I built this one to fit under my 75G reef. It is built upon the same design as "Sump-zilla" but is acrylic.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4ce07b3127cce9b5f7066e32900000016108DcuHDZi10

There are very few limitations in design and performance as long as you think things out and take your time.

Dave

[NaClFinatic]

Dave, did you build that yourself? Could I just cut some acrylic and use the weld and make a custom size? I was looking at a glass sump because a small acrylic tank is a bit more expensive and the acrylic tanks usually have the top bracing that would make it less accessible.

Your sump looks tall, do you have a taller cabinet? I figure if I get a sump taller than 16-18" that it would be tough to get the skimmer in and out if needed. Thats why I was thinking 30g (36x13x16) would fit very nicely under a 90g.

It looks like there is only one bafle between the fuge and return. Does it just spill over that into the return? Does that cause any bubles when it makes that drop? Maybe that baffle probably could be sloped a little too so it would more roll down instead of slpash.

I like the lower outer baffles between the skimmer and return. Looks easier to clean in there. Or do you even need to clean that? I would think some sediment would collect or some algae could grow anywhere in there with the fuge light. Is that normal or am I wrong?

[NaClFinatic]

I detailed all of my work in my journal (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=673), there may be stuff htere to help you out.

Wildone -- I noticed in a earlier post in this thread that I said I read someones journal for over an hour. But need to give you credit because it was yours when you posted that link! Its great seeing a tank from setup to maturity. Keep posting. I will definitely do a journal too when I get mine started.

[JustDavidP]

NaCLFinatic,

Yes, you can use acrylic, and if cut neat and clean, apply Weld-On and configure ANYTHING you want. Just make sure you use the appropriate thickness for the overall size of the system. I bought all the acrylic and such for that sump and built it for about 100 bucks. 1/3 the cost of retail sumps of the same size etc. Here is another that I built for under my 26G bowfront (seahorse tank). It holds just 4 gallons of water, but allowed me to move a heater, the skimmer etc. under the display.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/Newsump2.jpg

The DIY Stand for the 75G was tall. I hate looking down at tanks and would rather use a step ladder to service from the top, than to look down into a display. The viewing pane of the system was at an average eye level.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/Full75.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/GotReef.jpg

The Fuge Pane was actually sloped and topped with egg crate to allow the water to sheen down the panel rather than splash over it. The baffles in between the skimmer and return chamber did wonders in keeping bubbles down. When cleaning my sumps, I simply shut off the return pumps, lift the return heads therefore breaking the siphon. I then mark the sump with a crayon to the water line, and use a wet dry vac (with thin attachment) to clean the entire sump. I then fill up water to the line and turn the pump back on. That sump was the easiest one to keep clean.

Dave

[JustDavidP]

Working with acrylic is fun. I've also made other toys with it. this is a bracket that was made for the auto top off...

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/floatrig.jpg

in "Sump-zilla", my 75G sump/fuge system.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d176/JustDavidP/sumpin.jpg

[NaClFinatic]

Dave, I like the idea of an eye level tank! My wife listened to part of the seahorse epside with me and decided she want some seahorses, so I trying to figure out how to layout my office / fish room so will be able to connect a seahorse tank to my system. anyway good episode.

I noticed the sump for your 29g has the outer baffles high, while in the sump for your 75g system the outer baffles are low. Do have any preference for either or see more bubles getting through one or the other or maybe other debris?