Need Help Used tank or new tank

[Missy]

Hi, Can someone please help me to make this decision. Used tank 72 X 18 X 23 for $100, would have to have it drilled and install overflow boxes from what I understand:huh:. New tank $525.00 drilled with corners and store will take my old 55 gallon with stand and canopy for $300. Any inupt would be appeciated, the guy with the old tank would like an answer tonight. Thanks

[Carty]

I would go with the new.. for $225 you dont have to worry about the age of the tank, any hidden glass imperfections.. etc etc

[Phurst]

Agreed. I've had both, and with new, you know exactly what you're getting. Plus, there's no guarantee that it will survive drilling.

[Missy]

Thanks for the suggestions. I had considered buying used and keeping the 55 as a quarantine tank until the big tank was fully stocked and then selling it, but I might not have a buyer then. Also, another ? the guy selling the used tank say it is 72x18x24 and 125 gallons, my lfs says their tank is 72x18x22 and is 125 gallons. One thing I like about my 55 gallon is the height at 24". I could also go to 28" being 150 gallons but its $200 more and I would't be able to reach to bottom. Any thoughts. Also need advise re: types of sumps and what questions I should be asking lfs about corner overflows and location of drilled holes.
Thank You:)

[rayme07]

I agree getting a new tank will be the best choice. I would say go with the 24" side to me it would be easier to reach the bottom if you need to. for a sump I would use a regular 20 long and put dividers in and bubble trap then you can store protein skimmer, heaters, also live rock and some cheto. If you want a good cheap sump than I would build it your self heres some videos of how to do it. :)

YouTube - Reef Tank D.I.Y. Sump part 1

YouTube - Reef Tank D.I.Y. Sump part 2

[Pat]

yea and i agree with Phurst i had a new tank and it didn't survive the drilling
better off paying a little more for the good new setup b/c and after you get it drilled and the over flows you will be close to that price of the new one

[Missy]

Thank you so much, very helpful. The video is exactly the kind of step by step I need. The new tank has 2 corner overflows, does this mean 2 holes or 4? I read its better to have them at the bottom for less sound. Any thing I should be asking or avoid. Thanks again.

[CarmieJo]

I agree, with this scenario, I think the new tank is the better deal. There is a lot to be said for being able to reach the bottom of the tank. :) Also as far as a sump goes, I think bigger is better. If you can get it in the cabinet, I would go with a 48" long tank and then add the dividers.

[Pat]

I agree getting a new tank will be the best choice. I would say go with the 24" side to me it would be easier to reach the bottom if you need to. for a sump I would use a regular 20 long and put dividers in and bubble trap then you can store protein skimmer, heaters, also live rock and some cheto. If you want a good cheap sump than I would build it your self heres some videos of how to do it. :)



20l are a pain i was thinking about doing it with mine but they are too low and if you could fit a 20l you could fit a 29g thats what im using much better and the more water the better so get the biggest you could fit

[rayme07]

20l are a pain i was thinking about doing it with mine but they are too low and if you could fit a 20l you could fit a 29g that's what I'm using much better and the more water the better so get the biggest you could fit

Yah they are but like you said a regular will do fine to as long as it can fit the skimmer its rockin. lol Also anything else you need. :)

[Missy]

Thanks guys, Can anyone tell me if I can use my new Aqua Remora C hang on the back skimmer (bought for my 55 gallon but rated for 100gallons or so). Can it be hung on the sump? If not what skimmer would you suggest.

[Pat]

i would go with something bigger,and in sump, but if money is a issue i dont see why you couldn't run that for now
only thing is you would have to make sure you hang it by the chamber that has a high water level

[Missy]

Thanks Pat, could you recommend a good in sump skimmer? I just found someone in my town parting out their 55 gallon, 50lbs mature liverock $250, a long list of corals $160, sand and hermit crabs. My 55 gallon has been up a running for 3 to 4 weeks now with 60lbs of rock and 3 snails & 10 hermit crabs. I didn't test water for the fist 2 weeks but for the last 2 I'm getting Amonia 0, Nitrite 0 and Nitrate 0,:unsure: Calcuim is low at 320 and I started with my well water which is ph 8.2 no phosphates. I have done 1 water change with distilled water 25% with a new salt mix that adds calcium, didn't change the 340 reading though. Anyway my question is, can I add this guys established liverock, sand, and something to increase calcuim and add his corals as well or should I wait on the coral. Thanks again, I really do appreciate the help:up:.

[Pat]

i was recommended this skimmer and its the one im getting Aquarium Protein Skimmer: Marineland Pro Skimmers (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18985)
if you get the rock i wouldnt put to much in at one time as it might start another small cycle of the tank, so a few lbs every few days b/c once the rock leaves there tank by the time it will get in to your tank it will have die off. i wouldnt use there sand iv always gotten new sand altho some ppl will say its ok im not sure.and coral i would get like mushrooms and polyps just to see how they do before getting in to more pricey stuff

[Missy]

Ok, I will check out that skimmer. I thought their sand would help to cycle my tank faster. The list of extras/corals are 2 feather dusters, green star polyp, 4 mushrooms, finge leather, and fungi plate coral. Do you know anythig about any of these?

[Pat]

no sorry im still setting up my reef tank so i dont have nay corals in it all i have are 2 mushroom polyps that i got on my live rock that have survived the tank cycle

[Pat]

i have sent you a pm about the lights

[CarmieJo]

Those are all good hardy corals except for the feather dusters which can be more sensitive. I have used used sand before and not had any problems. Are you feeding the snails and hermits?

I don't think that there is any reason you can't use a HOB skimmer as a HOS (hang on sump) model. Due to space issues my Red Sea Berlin skimmer sits outside of my sump.

[Missy]

Hi CarmieJo, I haven't fed the snails and hermits but there is alot brown and green hair algae in my tank. Do they need more than that?

[CarmieJo]

It is not so much that they need more as that you may have not started the cycle. But with the livestock you really shouldn't throw a shrimp in to raise the ammonia level

[Missy]

I didn't test water for the first week and half, since then Amonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0. I was wondering why no cycle yet and how I was going to make the change to the 125 adding new liverock without harming snails. Also, I missed out on the deal with corals and hermits etc. but I have 3 snails and 10 hermits. Any suggestions are appreciated.

[CarmieJo]

Missy, do you have a QT tank that you could put your snails and hermits in while the 125 cycles? A 10 gallon with a powerhead or HOB filter and a piece of the LR you already have would be fine for those guys.

[Missy]

I do have a 10 gallon with a sponge filter but how do I move water, my powerheads are Koralia #3(too big) right? Also, can you give me your opinion on lighting. My new tank will be 28" deep and I am looking at TEK T5H0 39W x 12, will that be enough, any other suggestions?

[CarmieJo]

Do you have an air pump for the sponge filter? It should give you enough water movement for the snails and hermits.

I don't use T5's but TEK has a good reputation and as long as they have individual reflectors I think that 12 bulbs should be OK.

[Missy]

Yes the filter has a pump. I wish Perfecto/Marine made a reef ready tank that was between 22 and 28. I like my 55 gallon now at 24" tall or 26 would be ok. The TEK lights do have individual reflectors

[CarmieJo]

Yes the filter has a pump. Then I'd use the sponge filter and a chunk of LR in the 10 for the snails and hermits while you wait for the new tank to cycle.
I wish Perfecto/Marine made a reef ready tank that was between 22 and 28. I like my 55 gallon now at 24" tall or 26 would be ok. The TEK lights do have individual reflectors FWIW I am happy with my AGA RR tank.

[Missy]

The tanks I have looked at that are 6feet seem short at 22" and I have to go with the 6 feet because I already have the stand. I have the let the lfs know tomorrow what size 22 or 28 tall. If you have any other suggestions, please let me know.

I had a credit at a store so I went and picked up more live rock today. Its in my bathtub, we put plastic down over the tub and I have an ehiem filter running, 2 air hoses and 2 heaters, and I added purpleup becasue my calcium is 340. Do you see any problems with this, any suggestions?

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.:)

[Pat]

Its in my bathtub, we put plastic down over the tub and I have an ehiem filter running, 2 air hoses and 2 heaters, and I added purpleup becasue my calcium is 340. Do you see any problems with this, any suggestions?

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.:)

i see a problem

how will your shower??

solution :
rubbermade containers work great !!

[CarmieJo]

How tall are you? I could not reach to the bottom of a 28" tank.

Personally I don't think that Purple Up is all that great of a problem. If you are going to dose Ca I would use something like Oceans Blend or another 2 part calcium/alkalinity additive. However, Ca of 340 will be just fine for LR, fish and softies. It is not OK for hard corals so you will want to raise it before you'd add LPS or SPS.

[Missy]

We have another bath, its a small kids tub that is never used. I thought of rubbermaid but don't really have any place to put them.

I'm going to ask for other options re tank height today but from what I am told so far the all glass/Oceanic are too expensive.

I thought the purple up was a calcium additive but I am also using a saltmix that H2Ocean that I believe adds calcium.

I was also going to look today for a 48 x 12 x 15 for a sump and an ehiem pump to run return, they are so quiet. Any suggestions.

[Missy]

Idea, could you have 2 smaller sumps, one for refugium and cheato with return and one for skimmer with return. I thought that might be easier to handle under stand if you had to take it out for any reason and would not have to do elbows from tank to sump, just straight down.

[saltaddict]

Hi Missy - I have a tank that is 30" deep and while it is not the easiest thing to reach the bottom with my bare hand I can do it while stand on a chair and leaning. I am 5'4" and have even been know to sit on top of it. I tore down a 24" yesterday and while it was easier to reach the bottom, honestly I never liked it as much because it was short.
I have a new tank on its way and it is also 30" tall.

If you are not into acrobats then I would suggest the shorter tank but the taller tank is possible.

Good luck and keep up posted.

[Missy]

Thanks, I have a planted tank that is 26" deep and can still get my plants down in there but with difficulty. With a reef tank couldn't you just use tongs, is there any real reason to have our fingers in the sand?

[saltaddict]

Missy - I have several tools that I use to reach things if needed. It is difficult to use tongs for placing the LR because of its weight but otherwise you can use tools to do the work.

I personally prefer the taller tanks.

[Missy]

Do you have any opinion re my 2 smaller sumps vs 1 large?

[Missy]

Ok, I decided to go with the 150 gallon 72 x 18 x 28, I know it will be more difficult to maintain but my hubby likes our 55 gallon tall and didn't want a bigger tank unless it was tall. Maybe I will get him to do the reaching to the bottom, his arms are longer than mine.

So I am trading my 55g with stand for the new tank which means I have to transfer rocks and water asap. I still have not decided on a skimmer or pump to run the return, needs to be quiet. I like Carmie Jo's suggestion re the sump so have decided to go with 48 x 12 x ?14/16/18, I think I will still have room in the stand for the skimmer and pump to run externally. Is there anything else that runs externally that I have to leave room for?

Thanks

[Missy]

Can anyone tell me if the 2 corner overflows rated at 700gph each are a problem? Thats 1400 gph for 150gallon tank.

[CarmieJo]

Missy, it is weird, I posted yesterday about the 2 sump idea. If you did this what you would actually do is have a sump and a fuge. I only have a single overflow so IDK, are they tied together under the tank? I am BAD at plumbing but if they are I think you could split the overflow to feed the fuge, send the rest to the sump, let gravity carry water from the fuge to the sump and have the return in the sump area. This way you would only need one pump which would save you capital costs and energy cost. If the overflows aren't tied together then maybe you could use one for the fuge side (I am real vague here) and the other for the sump. Ideally you want a slower flow through the fuge so you could use a smaller return pump for that side and a larger one for the sump side.

You don't need any more than 5 or so tanks an hour through the sump so dual 700 gph overflows will more than be sufficient. The rest of the flow in the tank (20-30 tanks an hour between the return add other circulation) should either be through a closed loop of powerheads in the DT.

[Missy]

Hi Carmie Jo, plumbing is not my strong suite either. I am planning to run a skimmer and return pump externally but have no idea how that will work (plumbing wise). I have to go back and stare at Dicks plumbing a few more hours. I feel like my eyes are going to pop right out of head every night trying to take all of this in. Tonight my husband brought home a 48 x 12 x 18, 45 gallon, I can get it in there but only allows me 7 inches at the top to reach in and I don't know what other equipment I have to leave room for externally. So alot of decisions to make and I don't know what I would do if there weren't people like yourself willing to help. Thank you so much.

[saltaddict]

Missy - I was running and will be running again a 2 "sump" system - actually one is a fuge.
I would have one of the drains split between the sump and the fuge with a ball valve so you can adjust the flow going into the fuge - you really don't want that drain water blasting into the fuge.
It is very doable.

As far as only having 7" to mess in the sump/fuge - I don't think you will like this situation for long.

I would do a dry run, put it under the tank and spend some time trying to remove pumps for cleaning, prune macro out of the fuge and see if you are able to work with such limited space.

[Missy]

What if my pump is external, mounted on the stand wall, then I only need in the sump for algae purposes?

I have just realized another problem, my tank has corner overflows thru the bottom of the tank and my stand has supports in the corners:o.

[Amphibious]

I would do a dry run

This is good advice and I would like to expand it a little. Every new tank should be put through trial run when plumbing, pumps, sumps, refugiums, UV, skimmer, chiller and any other accessories are completely set and ready to go. Do this test run with FRESH TAP WATER and without sand and/or live rock (LR). The purpose is, of course, to test for leaks. But, it gives you a chance to "see" how your system is going to operate, how the flow is going to traverse from one end to the other. I let mine run 24 hours, then drain completely and fix anything that needs fixing. Then begin to fill with SW, sand and when about 3/4s full begin adding LR if you have it. If you don't have LR fill it to capacity and run the system, checking again for leaks.


my tank has corner overflows thru the bottom of the tank and my stand has supports in the corners

Common problem. Just mark the holes and drill a slightly larger hole than you need. Keep in mind 1" pipe is about 1 1/4" dia so drill a 1 1/2" hole.



Dick

[Missy]

Thank You Dick, I will do a freshwater run. I do have liverock, some is in my 55gallon, it has been in there a month now and I still have not seen any sign of Amonia, Nitrite or Nitrate, the other half is in my tub and has been there 2 days, also no amonia.
I had Perfecto send me a diagram of the location of the drilled holes and I am now going to measure on the stand.
If you have time can you explain to me how to plumb the skimmer and return pump so that it is in my stand but not in the sump.

Thanks again

[Missy]

Thank you all for the great advice. The tank has arrived and looks great. We have notched out the corners to accomodate the oveflows and are stil trying to figure out the sump. We were thinking about a 36 x 12 x 16 for the ps and return and a seperate refugium 24 x 12 x 16. We thought of putting the fuge on a sliding stand that would come out the front door for maintenance but the door is not big enough. Saltaddict, can you tell me how big your separate tanks are and what you would do different now? I can have a sump built for $900.00 60 x 12 x 16 but was hoping we could do something cheaper ourselves. Any ideas?

[saltaddict]

Wow - $900. I would find a used tank the size that I want the sump and add the baffles and you are in business for probably less than $150.
My current tank and stand is all acrylic and the opening does not allow for long sumps to be placed.
I have a 20g that houses the skimmer and return and then I built a fuge out of acrylic that is the fuge. I plumbed it so the fuge is fed off of the main drain line with a ball valve to control the flow and then I drilled two holes for bulkheads and plumed those to drain into the return side of the 20g. I took that apart about a week ago - I have ADHD and had planned a new fuge for the current tank.
My new tank will have two units also - I like the fuge to be completely separate. I am building the stand for the new tank so I am working on the sizing for the to units. I am thinking the sump, (main drain lines, skimmer and return), will be about 36 long and the fuge will be about 40 long.
Hope this helps.

[Missy]

Thanks, I just ordered a 36 x 12 x 16 and a 24 x 12 x 16 but am not sure yet how to set it up. I was thinking the 24" would be the refugium and the 36" would house the skimmer and return. The DT has 2 corner overflows and we thought we would have 25% flow to the fuge and 75% to the skimmer. Not sure about bubble trap, rubble area or liverock areas, any suggestions are appreciated.

[saltaddict]

Did you just order plain tanks or sumps?

[Missy]

Just plain tanks