PC vs T5HO

[PapaMcEuin]

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

Ok, so I am trying to figure out what I should spend a portion of Christmas money on. I am going to get a refractometer on ebay. This One (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Salinity-Refractometer-4-Aquarium-Pond-Hydrometer_W0QQitemZ370132328405QQcmdZViewItemQQpt ZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item370132328405&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C66%3A3%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C2 40%3A1308%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A100) You can tell me if this is a good deal or not. Anyway...

But the other thing I want/need is more light. I have a Current USA X2 Nova Extreme T5HO (http://www.petsolutions.com/Nova-Extreme-X2-T5HO-Fixtures+I42901124+C33.aspx) 24" light. I am also using a standard T8 Coralife bulb from the tanks original setup (AllGlass 20 g). So I am thinking about ditching it and going with another light.

Now, years back I bought and never really used a PC retro setup from a now defunct company. Not having time to do the whole retro thing I could get the Current USA's PC setup since it also uses the Jap square pin config and I have 4 bulbs that have barely been used. On the other hand I could just toss those and go with another T5 just like I have already. Suggestions? Thoughts?

[CarmieJo]

This issue Liquid Medium Marine Aquarist's Magazine (http://www.liquid-medium.com/11_08_1_6.html) reviews Current T5 and PC 48" fixtures. In these tests the T5 fares better but you have 216 watts of T5 compared to 260 watts of PC's. In the 24" fixtures it would be 48 watts of T5 vs 130 of PC so I am going to guess you would get more PAR out of the PC's.

Another option would be to use your T8 for an actinic and run 2 daylight tubes in the T5.

[ryandlf]

I don't have a ton of advise to add on this one, but I just purchased a 24" T5 and so far I am pretty happy with it. Its over a cycling tank though so I don't have any experience growing anything with it. I also have PC's over another tank and from all the research i've done they are basically a matter of personal taste.

[8251Reefer]

T5 HO will outperfom PC's any day they are as good if not better than MH imo..

[ryandlf]

Its always been sort of common thought that MH's were the top of the line, but i'm not going to disagree with you. I've heard the same thing from a number of different people.

[Dragonwolf]

I like the T5 HO and use them---BUT---How long to the bulbs last?? I've heard everything from 9 mo. to 2 years...?

[PapaMcEuin]

So that does pose an interesting question regarding all light types. Since a burned out bulb is not when UV is degraded, how do you test when to change the light bulbs?

[CarmieJo]

My "test" for when to change the PC bulbs in my nano is when I start seeing algae. This seems to be between 9 and 12 months.

[PapaMcEuin]

Carmie, can you explain why the presence of algae is a good test? Wouldn't good lights promote growth of anything photosynthetic?

[CarmieJo]

Conventional wisdom says that when lights start color shifting you get more nuisance algae. In my experience this is true. In my tank changing the bulbs often resolves this issue.

[PapaMcEuin]

Well, got the new light in today. Works nice. I also bought feet thinking that it did not come with them but it did. Rats. Bought a 2nd set that I thought would go with the T5 setup, nope. Double Rats. So I have 2 sets of extra feet incase the first set ever breaks. Anyway, it is much brighter than what I had, which was a Coralife T8 6700K/420Actinic. When I turned on the T5 only vs the PC only, the PC delivers much more Actinic than the T5 but the T5 has a much brighter 10K output it seems. At first I had the glass top on and it severely cramped the output from the PC but removing it allows a much better spread. I don't really need it as the PC setup is higher and both are closed units. Now that the lights are all off, the PC's little LED moonlight is nice.

[8251Reefer]

Papa,
The great thing about T5's is the fact that you can change the bulbs and get a different look. When your bulbs are due to change I would recommend changing them with better bulbs, the current bulbs are not as good in my opinion. Take a look at this thread on RC Reef Central Online Community - The T5 Q&a Thread (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1527167) , it has a lot of info about T-5's they also have a website which has recorded PAR values for the bulbs. tfivetesting - PAR (http://tfivetesting.googlepages.com/par) As you can see the Current/Sunpaq bulbs have less par than some of the other brands. Hope this helps...

These measurements were made by The Grim Reefer using his Tek fixture and 54 Watt bulbs.

Aquascience
Special 15K 320*
DUO 15K 334*
22000K Blue 302*

AquaZ
Sun Pro 285
Ocean Pro 323
Blue Pro 266

ATI
Sun Pro 357
Aquablue 336
Blue Plus 311
Actinic 137
(Old Style)
Pro Color 215 vs 300 for a UVL Aquasun in a later test

Current Sun Paq
Daylight 10K 272
Blue 252

D&D/Giesemann
Midday 325
Aquablue 324
Actinic Plus 264
Pure Actinic 157

General Electric
GE Daylight 340
GE3000 319*

Helios
Daylight 309
Super Blue 225

KZ
Coral Light 342*
Fiji Purple 330*

UVL
Aqua sun 345
Actinic White 293
Super Actinic 210
75/25 "Aquablue" 254 vs 300 for an Aquasun in a later test.

I personnally like this cionfiguration in bulbs gives a nice blue 20k look with lots of PAR for excellent coral growth.

Front

ATI Blue Plus
ATI Aquablue
UVL Aquasun
ATI Blue Plus



HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR AND DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE!! IT'S NOT WORTH IT!!

[CarmieJo]

Hey Eric, glad to see you back! I love your signature. Thanks for giving me another opportunity to say the reason I walk with crutches is because of a drunk driver.

[rayme07]

I agree with you Eric never drink and drive. Thanks for bringing it up. :up:

[Carty]

This issue [url=http://www.liquid-medium.com/11_08_1_6.html]In the 24" fixtures it would be 48 watts of T5 vs 130 of PC so I am going to guess you would get more PAR out of the PC's.

Another option would be to use your T8 for an actinic and run 2 daylight tubes in the T5.

PAR is the amount of light being reflected back at a certain distance.. and just because the wattage is way lower doesnt mean you are getting less light.. Im pretty sure your solaris produces pretty good PAR and you are probably using no wattage at all :)

[CarmieJo]

Carty, it wasn't just because of the wattage. Liquid Medium tested Current 48" PC's and T5's and the lower wattage T5's produced more PAR. The T5's had 4x54 watt bulbs for 216 watts total. It averaged 146 µMol·m²·sec at 18" and 186 µMol·m²·sec at 10". At 18" that is .68 µMol·m²·sec/watt.

The PC's had 4x65 watt bulbs for 260 watts but the authors noted that it only drew 212 watts. It averaged 122 µMol·m²·sec at 18" and 147 µMol·m²·sec at 10". At 18" that is .58 µMol·m²·sec/watt.

It probably is not a direct correlation but the 24" T5 has 2x24 watt bulbs so if they can produce the same .68 µMol·m²·sec/watt that is 33 µMol·m²·sec. The 24" PC has 2x65 watts for 130 watts. But lets say that these bulbs only draw 106 so if they produce the same .58 µMol·m²·sec/watt they should produce 61 µMol·m²·sec, almost double of the T5's.

[Carty]

whoa math queen haha I had to actually think there.. I see your point but have to disagree because with the lights the range of par is going to also effected by color, and we all know the VAST selection of pc bulbs out there

[CarmieJo]

Sure, bulbs make a ton of difference. But you could presume that Current uses the same bulbs for the 24" and 48" PC's, just 2 in the 24" and 4 in the 48", and similar bulbs in the T5 24 and 48 inch fixtures. I think that if you had 4x24 watt bulbs in the 24" T5 fixture it would likely have the same or more PAR than the PC's.

Of course the only way to know for sure is to measure with a quantum meter.

[Carty]

is that not what we have been talking about this whole time?? :)

[PapaMcEuin]

Aquascience
Special 15K 320*
DUO 15K 334*
22000K Blue 302*


I haven't seen T5's other than thse in 15K. How do these compare against metal halide?

[Carty]

as far as par or color?

[PapaMcEuin]

As far as usefulness I guess. I would like to add some SPS without metal halide. I read in some places people saying T5's can replace MH with the right bulb. So that is the question. Since many MH are 15K, would the Aqua Science Special 15K's work for that? My Current-USA is about 6 months old and I don't know if it is time to change out the bulbs yet or not, but if I do and that is a possibility, then it would be nice to have some Blue or Purple Acropora's. The current lighting setup is quite bright, but bright doesn't necessarily mean successful for SPS.

[Carty]

you could def. grow sps under T5.. My setup is geismann
10000k, true actinic, 10000k, 6500k.. I would recommend that for a whiter light or you could go with ati aquablue plus, you will get plenty of PAR for SPS

[bbl_nk]

I also would have to go with the T%s because of the versatility. The T5 market is growing and its showing with the range of bulbs from 5500K to well over 20000K with actinics in the 420 and 460 specrum. You can get a nice mix of lights to get some great variances in color.

For example, I run two actinics and a 10K daylight and UVL's 75/25 bulb which gives a nice redish-pink glow bringing out the rich reds and oranges in corals and fish. I plan on adding another two bulbs to the setup and running Aquablues to get more flourescing under "daylight" conditions.

I love the look of metal halides and have never owned them but I would NEVER say to be successful even in an SPS dominated tank you MUST have MH. A lot of misinformation going on in the hobby from diehard MH fans who fight tooth and nail over any suggestion to other lighting sources. MH does give you the nice shimmer effect that adds another level of character, but you can get great results under T5's as well.

[PapaMcEuin]

So do you have a PAR rating on can you point me to one for PC bulbs?


Papa,
The great thing about T5's is the fact that you can change the bulbs and get a different look. When your bulbs are due to change I would recommend changing them with better bulbs, the current bulbs are not as good in my opinion. Take a look at this thread on RC Reef Central Online Community - The T5 Q&a Thread (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1527167) , it has a lot of info about T-5's they also have a website which has recorded PAR values for the bulbs. tfivetesting - PAR (http://tfivetesting.googlepages.com/par) As you can see the Current/Sunpaq bulbs have less par than some of the other brands. Hope this helps...

These measurements were made by The Grim Reefer using his Tek fixture and 54 Watt bulbs.

Aquascience
Special 15K 320*
DUO 15K 334*
22000K Blue 302*

AquaZ
Sun Pro 285
Ocean Pro 323
Blue Pro 266

ATI
Sun Pro 357
Aquablue 336
Blue Plus 311
Actinic 137
(Old Style)
Pro Color 215 vs 300 for a UVL Aquasun in a later test

Current Sun Paq
Daylight 10K 272
Blue 252

D&D/Giesemann
Midday 325
Aquablue 324
Actinic Plus 264
Pure Actinic 157

General Electric
GE Daylight 340
GE3000 319*

Helios
Daylight 309
Super Blue 225

KZ
Coral Light 342*
Fiji Purple 330*

UVL
Aqua sun 345
Actinic White 293
Super Actinic 210
75/25 "Aquablue" 254 vs 300 for an Aquasun in a later test.

I personnally like this cionfiguration in bulbs gives a nice blue 20k look with lots of PAR for excellent coral growth.

Front

ATI Blue Plus
ATI Aquablue
UVL Aquasun
ATI Blue Plus



HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR AND DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE!! IT'S NOT WORTH IT!!

[Carty]

I'd bet my fish tank you don't get as much par from a PC compared to a T5 :)

basically what it comes down to is what you want to keep, you mentioned SPS so I would say your options are MH, T5, and LED... since Im not willing to give up an organ to buy the LED's I had to choose between T5's and MH... with my setup I get a par rating very similar to a 150w Metal Halide... but I have the versatility of changing my whole setup with different bulbs :) I would say T5's are the way to go.. plus you don't have to worry about the immense infrared that MH's put out (this is what causes so much heat in fish tanks)

[PapaMcEuin]

Another question. The ATI 24watt AquaSun are listed as 22". Is that just technical of the lighting surface and it fits at "24 inch" fixture or is it a different size altogether?

[Carty]

I would imagine its 22".. im not 100% but it sounds to me like one of those deals where you have dual bulbs that dont go all the way to the end of the fixture meaning 2 22" bulbs one on each end

[PapaMcEuin]

Well for my T5 replacement bulbs I have ordered D-D GEISEMANN POWERCHROME AQUABLUE+ 24W 24IN T5 HIGH OUTPUT FLUORESCENT LAMP and UVL 22 INCH T5 V-HO AQUASUN BULB 10000K. I got a pair of each so that is what the T5's will be for the next year or so. I have 5 new PC 10K-K/420Act that are from defunct company so those will be going for the next 2.5years for me. I'll see how these T5's work and go from there.

[quinas07]

Well for my T5 replacement bulbs I have ordered D-D GEISEMANN POWERCHROME AQUABLUE+ 24W 24IN T5 HIGH OUTPUT FLUORESCENT LAMP and UVL 22 INCH T5 V-HO AQUASUN BULB 10000K. I got a pair of each so that is what the T5's will be for the next year or so. I have 5 new PC 10K-K/420Act that are from defunct company so those will be going for the next 2.5years for me. I'll see how these T5's work and go from there.

[quinas07]

If wattage is the same between t5 and PC, what do you guys think would a better choice. I need to buy a new 36" fixture and I think I and going to try the T5. I just wanted to know what everyone would go with. Right now it is a fowl, but I want to start with some corals.
PS- I am on my new I touch and hit the wrong button on the other post

[PapaMcEuin]

If wattage is the same between t5 and PC, what do you guys think would a better choice. I need to buy a new 36" fixture and I think I and going to try the T5. I just wanted to know what everyone would go with. Right now it is a fowl, but I want to start with some corals.
PS- I am on my new I touch and hit the wrong button on the other post

If you are starting new I would do all T5's and I would load it up. I failed to think. I'll stop on that one. I should have gotten a unit that had more than 2 T5 bulbs. On the CurrentUSA setup I do like the built in moonlight led. So I would say get something that has as many bulbs as depth can provide and if it can have built in moon lights do that. If you can spend the money get something that is a combo of HQI - T5 - and LED moonlights so you don't limit your growing options. If money is an issue then just load it up with T5's and moon lights. I personally wouldn't have bought a PC fixture if I did not have 5 brand new PC bulbs sitting around. Given that is at least 2.5 years life it was a cost thing.

[bbl_nk]

Definitely look at a 4 bulb setup minimum. I have a 4 bulb fixture and am looking to add two more bulbs via retrofit. Could have pikced up a nice 6 bulb unit for about the same or less. Try to get ones with individual power cords. This way you can control your lighting cycle by having sets of lights come on as needed.

[CarmieJo]

I'd go with the T5's as a watt is not a watt. Also check out Liquid Medium Marine Aquarist's Magazine (http://www.liquid-medium.com/past_issues.html) issue 6 where they test PC and T5 fixtures from Current.

[PapaMcEuin]

Well I got the T5 lights finally. The KY ice storm caused a major issue in delivery. Anyway, they are nice and bright. We will see how they do.

[CarmieJo]

Hey, that's great! Keep us posted.