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Marauder-m
04-19-2006, 09:01 PM
I'm looking into Phytoplankton culture and was wondering if there is any particular type of phyto that is best in terms of nutritional value?
Having looked around a bit I have found a source of Nannochloropsis oculata available as a starter culture. Can anyone suggest some pro's and con's?
These may be a silly questions, but I'm relatively new to the marine aquarium hobby and am making a concerted effort to become more informed. Any and all help will be gratefully received.

gwen_o_lyn
04-19-2006, 09:09 PM
I think it's a great question! I don't do the phyto thing so I can't answer.

Rob
04-19-2006, 09:10 PM
i dont know if i can answer this specifically, but i will ask our resident algae expert from AlgaGen to answer if he can

AlgaGen
04-20-2006, 12:43 AM
There are a number of strains commonly used in aquaculture, Nanno is one, so is Isochrysis galbana (T. iso/C. iso), Chaetoceros spp., Monochrysis lutherii (pavlova), Thalassiosira fluvialis (diatom) amongst others. Nanno is common for several reasons 1) it is relatively easy to grow and, 2) it has a lot of a fatty acid called EPA..great stuff plus a number of other pigments and proteins. Nanno is commonly used for rotifer culture and in green water larval production.

T.iso and C. iso have another fatty acid (as well as accessory pigments, carotenoids, etc.) called DHA which is critical for larval development of a number of different species. T. iso is typically used to raise invertebrates such as clams, oysters. Many fish breeders use this algae to feed to rotifers and artemia as an enrichment. Isochrysis is great food for copepods. People raising other inverts use pavlova and T. iso to feed their rotifers and claim they get better egg production. Isochrysis can be a little bit trickier to grow for some people but I think it is worth it in terms of nutritional content. One advantage is that it handles warm temps fairly well. Consider this…the strain was isolated in or near Vanuatu (or so I was told).

If I were to grow one microalgae it would be the T. iso strain. However, both the T.iso and nanno would be a great combination to have because many organisms need both fatty acids DHA and EPA for healthy growth.

Frank Hoff’s book (Plankton Culture Manual) goes into this. CSIRO has a great culture collection. They have many spp available and probably some very knowledgeable people to talk with.

good luck..

Marauder-m
04-20-2006, 12:50 AM
Excellent. Got a whole lot more information than I expected, which is certainly a good thing. One other question. Could one culture a combination of strains in the same batch, or would one expect them to compete for nutrients with one causing the other to starve out? Put another way, is it better to culture each strain separately?

Rob
04-20-2006, 11:24 AM
great information Erik, thanks

on a side note, do you sell starter cultures for these?

AlgaGen
04-20-2006, 07:53 PM
No, no, thank you Rob : )

We have close to 30 commonly used aquaculture strains for sale, including Isochrysis (tahiatian strain) and Nanno oculata. Our strains for the most part were taken from successful aquaculture projects, cleaned up through the use of antibiotics and then selection off of nutrient agar plates. They are clean but I would not say axenic (without bacteria).

Maurauder, one can culture both spp together but you won't get the "performance" of a monocultured effort. I have been around cultures that were a mixture and one spp would overgrow/outcompete the other. In short, one can do it but I do not recommend it.

Rob
04-20-2006, 08:04 PM
if you were to o two spp cultures, would you have to separate them like you would rotifers and phyto for cross contamination reasons?

AlgaGen
04-20-2006, 10:25 PM
It depends on how robust your culture system is. You are using those 2L jars with tops which are great. The air creates positive pressure in the container and that in theory should keep contam out. Make sure that each system has dedicated parts. For instance, all parts of your system associated with nanno gets used, even after cleaning, with nanno cultures...repeatedly. Make sure that your hands are clean so that nanno cells attached to your hands do not get put into or near the Iso cultures..that kind of thing. Basically really think about what you are doing and where your hands have been. In this case they could sit fairly close to each other.

Many hatcheries have carboys on shelves above each other, each shelve will have different spp on them. They use lids/caps and blow air in which creates positive pressure. There is no dipping into the cultures but pouring out. Hands are cleaned when switching from one spp to another. They rarely get algal cross contamination.

Reefbaby
04-21-2006, 02:00 PM
Hmmm...I may have to think about moving my lab bench back home and into my aquarium room....maybe a cell culture hood for culturing my phytoplankton and some rotating incubators as well?! :-)

Bernie
06-28-2006, 09:34 PM
so do cultures crash due to the nutrients being used up? or do they generally crash due to outside contamination?

fat walrus
06-28-2006, 09:41 PM
both. but contamination is generally the greater concern.

Bernie
06-28-2006, 09:59 PM
so cleaning my paws religiously, cleaning all the eqiupment the same way and splitting on time should be enough to get my cultures past the 4th split mark... maybe... unless my chihuahua is tainting them while I'm at work...

wildeone
06-28-2006, 10:48 PM
I don't know if I am doing it correctly, but I am now running three 2 qt containers and I fill them 1/2 full. I harvest the jars 2 & 3 and then divide jar 1 into thirds into jars 2 and 3 and then I add with SW and nutrients. I don't clean my jars everytime I split, I just clean them every third or fourth time. I have made about 4 or 5 gallons thus far.

Rob
06-28-2006, 11:27 PM
cleaning the containers and tubes every time is important, you can skip every once and a while if you need to, but at least a rinse should be done.
and splitting into thirds, should work, but will likely make the cultures take longer, but shouldn't be a technical problem with it

V
06-28-2006, 11:51 PM
what a great thread, straight from the horses mouth too which is nice. thanks eric

AlgaGen
06-30-2006, 10:19 AM
I agree with both Walrus and Rob. Contamination will take a culture down, sometimes distinguished by foam and cell death clumping at the top of the culture jar...sometimes not. A culture will crash if it runs out of nutrients but usually it is not overnite. You can see some cell clumping within the culture and cells will begin to settle out and then the culture starts looking less dense (also a sign of contamination).

Keeping clean is a good thing ; ) but glad to hear that it is working out Wildeone.
This may be a bit premature...hope everyone has a good 4th.

V
06-30-2006, 10:33 AM
im going to plead the 5th on the 4th, cause its like holloween to us, means little!
i do hope u guys have a great day/night whichever u become active in! i know it means alot to u lot!

fat walrus
07-05-2006, 03:39 AM
im going to plead the 5th on the 4th, cause its like holloween to us, means little!
i do hope u guys have a great day/night whichever u become active in! i know it means alot to u lot!
the 4th of july is a holiday that reminds all AMERICANS of our history, heritage, and place on this earth. we have no union jack on any of our flags, and no queen, king, or any other crown of any sorts on our coins. INDEPENDENCE DAY. period. try it..........freedom rings!

fishcounter
07-06-2006, 09:02 AM
Rob, you mention in the videos that you clean everything out with hot water and bleach. How does the bleach thing work?

Rob
07-06-2006, 11:00 AM
well i dont use the bleach all the time, usually its just hot water, then i move to hot water and vinegar, then about once every few months i will do bleach..
as long as you rinse it well its ok. i usually let it sit for a day with RO water and dechlorinator after im done, before i use it again.

russell
08-14-2006, 12:09 AM
ok, everyone ready for a simple question :) what do you use phyto for? i watched the video and everything, but what is it used for?

thanks,
russell

CarmieJo
08-14-2006, 10:36 PM
You use it to feed your filter feeders. You can also buy it commercially.

russell
08-14-2006, 11:59 PM
filter feeders as in corals?

CarmieJo
08-16-2006, 10:25 PM
Yes, you've got it! :)

Rob
08-16-2006, 11:48 PM
yes, coral, and LOADS of other inverts hat you may or may not even see

Astrivian
09-04-2006, 07:55 PM
Oh boy i love threads like this. Okay, now i have some questions regarding storage. Rob, you said on your copie show that you have nanno plankton right? And I remember from your rotifer and plankton show that you said you kept old phyto in the fridge for up to a month (or was it longer?). So, if nanno keeps in the fridge for a month (or more or less), will T. iso as well? From what i gather, phyto grows pretty darn fast and storage becomes quite usefull. Also, what happens if these bottles of goo are kept too long. I assume the stuff dies, but will filter feeders eat the dead phyto? And finally, if they will eat dead phyto, is it okay to freeze the phyto into little cubes and store long term?

okay i am done :p

Rob
09-05-2006, 09:42 AM
Oh boy i love threads like this. Okay, now i have some questions regarding storage. Rob, you said on your copie show that you have nanno plankton right?
Correct

And I remember from your rotifer and plankton show that you said you kept old phyto in the fridge for up to a month (or was it longer?).
that is correct, usually about a month, i have kept it a bit longer but i try and avoid that

So, if nanno keeps in the fridge for a month (or more or less), will T. ISO as well?
i dont believe ISO can be kept as long, but i will need to defer to Erik for this one.

From what i gather, phyto grows pretty darn fast and storage becomes quite useful. Also, what happens if these bottles of goo are kept too long. I assume the stuff dies, but will filter feeders eat the dead phyto? And finally, if they will eat dead phyto, is it okay to freeze the phyto into little cubes and store long term?
dead phyto is not something you want to add, i dont think it will cause huge problems, but i dont think it would be consumed as well if at all

bmwaaron
09-05-2006, 08:37 PM
So just to make sure of this before I order, Isocrysis is the Phyto to use if you can only use 1 type correct?
Also is Florida Aqua Farms the place to order from or is there somewhere else?

Rob
09-05-2006, 10:30 PM
here is where i have been getting mine from
http://www.seahorsesource.com/cgi-bin/shop/search.cgi?&category=Foods-Algaes
this is the stuff from Algagen

bmwaaron
09-05-2006, 10:55 PM
Rob sorry if I missed something but I have never seen cultures started from a tube. How much do u add to a 2 qt container to start the culture? Does this stuff come with instructions?

AlgaGen
09-06-2006, 12:02 AM
There are a number of people (fish breeders, people growing clams, and copepods) that prefer the hi-nutrtion offered by the T. Isochyrsis. T. iso has a fatty acid called DHA that is critical for the development of many marine organisms. Many organisms can not synthesize this fatty acid by themselves and obtain it from microalgae. Nanno has a fatty acid called EPA, also an important one but it does not have DHA. Whereas some animals can synthesize EPA from DHA it does not always work the other way. For optimum health a certain ratio is thought to exist where there is greater DHA to EPA. This ratio ( whatever it is exactly) is a target that many people making feeds and raising fish especially try to hit.

Yeah, T.Iso does not store well. We have had cultures last 8-12 weeks in storage but nursing them back was difficult and not always successful. There is a company in Spain, I think, that spray dries microalgae for use in aquaculture. You just rehydrate it and are in business. I have never tested the product so I can not say anything about it. The added benefit of live microalgae is that it has the ability to positively effect water quality. Microalgae are very efficient (or can be) at taking up nutrients and trace metals in water.


Regarding our starter product...it comes in a pouch (250mL), and can be added directly to the culture container. The densities are very high-so a little goes a long way. We typically recommend tinging the water a lite to medium tea color, keeping it slightly away from the light for 1-2 days then moving into(2 inches away-depends on the lighting used) the light over the next 1-2 days. It is usually best to inoculate 2-3 containers as insurance that something will take and grow. In our lab this 250mL inoculates an 80L system solidly. IN aquaculture, in general, a rule of thumb is to inoculate 1:10 by volume (1 liter is used to inoculate 10L). In this case 0.25L inoculating 80L indicates a hi-cell density.

Inoculating from liquid culture is fairly straight forward, just take your time to think through each step...What steps? Is the grow container(and utensils) as clean as it can be..from a practical perspective? Has the media been prepared correctly (any chlorine left if even used at all)? Is the air source fairly clean (an aquarium pump is fine)? Clean your hands. Make sure most air flow in the surrounding environment is at a minimal, open up the culture container and pour the liquid culture in. Immediately seal all containers and turn on the air when finished. In previous discussions I might have outlined the steps more precisely, or can, but if anyone sees something I overlooked please add.

russell
09-06-2006, 01:12 AM
well guys, i started my first culture pretty much following the video step by step, and i must say rob, you are the MAN!!! it was soooo easy after watching the video. i don't know if you know how much you are doing for the hobby, but i must say, this site and the podcasts are the only way i have gotten this far in the hobby. i really appreciate all that you guys have done to help the reefing community.

that said, here are 2 pics of my phyto cultures. i bought a 1 liter bottle of phyto off a guy on ebay, it said that it contained all 3 strains.... i guess that is good :) anyways it was only 8 bucks, and when i split the cultures, it was a very yellow color, well i came back from the holiday break and it was nice and green. here are 2 pics:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/russellallen/phyto002.jpg


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/russellallen/phyto001.jpg

Reefbaby
09-06-2006, 08:47 AM
Great job Russell!! Thanks for sharing. Looks like it works for you!
From what I understand, though, you will probably only end up with one strain (the most dominant), because the strains will out-compete each other.

Yes...Rob is the man! OUR man!

Rob
09-06-2006, 08:58 AM
awesome job Russell.
Yes, RB is right, having a mixture like that will likely lead to only having one strain.. not a big deal though, it shouldn't cause you any grief though.

Erik, Thanks for jumping in and answering Aaron's question.
Aaron, if you have further question, please just ask we would be more than happy to elaborate further if needed

bmwaaron
09-06-2006, 08:20 PM
Thanks all.... I ordered everything from seahorse source today and should be here Friday. I have tryed a small culture from DT's and will see how far that goes. Since I just started it is a yellow tint since yesterday but is still suspended. When I get the new Stuff from Alagen I will keep you updated.

russell
09-06-2006, 10:48 PM
ok, i know this has been asked before, but i can't find a definate answer. right now i have a 29 gallon tank with about 15 xenia corals, and a large shroom. it has a damsel and a clown fish, how much phyto should i be adding if any?

JR Aquatics
09-06-2006, 11:33 PM
Russell: Yes, you should add phyto if you have live rock/sand. Yet, I am unsure of how much you should be adding.

JR Aquatics
09-06-2006, 11:35 PM
Has anyone tried or heard about red phytoplankton? Here is the link to the forum http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2180 It sounds to good to be true. What do all you TR members think?

Rob
09-07-2006, 11:37 AM
ok, i know this has been asked before, but i can't find a definate answer. right now i have a 29 gallon tank with about 15 xenia corals, and a large shroom. it has a damsel and a clown fish, how much phyto should i be adding if any?
depending on the density of your cultures, 1/2 - 1/2 cup twice a week should be a good place to start, and then you can increase if you think you need to

russell
09-07-2006, 10:57 PM
what should i be looking for to see if it is doing good? will the corals perk up? will the live rock spread? anything?

oh and by the way, the phyto is getting nice and dark green, i will split them tomorrow, which will be 7 days since i got it. it seems to be growing very very fast. i started with 1 liter, 7 days ago, and now i have 2 full 1 gallon containers, with very dark phyto in them... :)

Rob
09-08-2006, 09:52 AM
check the backs and sides of your rocks, you will notice an increase in small fan worms over time, and small filter feeders.
and indication that you are using too much is you will get a greenish dusting on your glass, if you find this algae build up to increase cut back on your phyto

russell
09-11-2006, 01:03 AM
i actually already have the green algae on the glass, i was told that my power compact bulbs needed to be replaced, they are 8 months old. as for my phyto, it is doing great. i took one of the jars and strained it into a jug for the fridge, and i split the remaining one into 3 one gallon cultures. my phyto got so dark that the 3 jugs that i split it to already are as dark as the ones in my photo above right after the split.

again, great video, i couldn't have done it without your help rob, and fellow reefers.

bmwaaron
09-14-2006, 07:58 PM
Rob I started my Isocrysis culture a few days ago. It is getting denser but since you haven't done Iso before how long should I wait to split? Should it be a certain color or can I still use that density stick?

How long on a brand new culture do you think it will take before u can split?

russell
09-15-2006, 12:43 AM
i did a split, and the culture was very dark. 2 of the 3 crashed and turned brown yellow, the other i think will make it. i had my ro unit hooked up wrong, so the water was probably less than perfect. maybe the next split will go better.