The third video episodes is finally out. In this show i walk you though a basic DIY drip system. This is the system i mentions and linked to in the Kalk episode
You can find details to that show, and the link to the original article i worked from here (http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157)

Please feel free to let me know and i will provide the info

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Enjoyed this one a lot Rob. Well done. Very clear and informative. My one question would be when and why would I use this?

Jim

thanks.. :)

a kalk drip like this is used to maintain Ca and Alk in your tank.
its a cheaper and better option over 2 part additives that are available.

there are other benefits in that it stabilizes PH, can increase skimmer efficiency and output, and is overall healthier for the tank that many commercial products used for Ca or Alk.

if you do not have a reef tank, then you might not use this as much or at all.
however if you have a reef that is heavy with stony corals and clams a simple kalk drip system might not be enough.

I drip 1/2 gallon of Kalk water every night and I have just a few zoas, mushrooms, and other polyps. I have nothing that has a real calcium uptake.

I did this to help "bind" the phosphates in my tank and increase skimmer efficiency. It's worked. My skimmer is at least twice as efficient, requiring attention every two days rather than once a week. My cyano battle is quickly coming to an end. My water is MUCH clearer (still can't figure out this correlation) AND my coralline algae on the LR has bloomed big time.

In my 75G reef, kalk dripping was not very efficient. Had I kept that bad boy running, I'd have cut in a calcium reactor to help with all of these issues and the incredible uptake that I had. That system was SPS and clam dominated.

Dave

as it stands right now, usign kalk as my top off water, is barely keeping up with my current calcium consumption rates.

i am actually looking into a kalk reactor or even a calcium reactor.

i would love to do a DIY kalk reactor and do it in a video.. :)

My buddy builds them weekly. He has reactors and sumps under construction all the time... sounds like a project to me :D

Dave

maybe we can set something up..
i will message you offline about this.

I have a similar setup. I use an old hospital IV pump and a 5 gal jug in the basement and ran tubing up to the tank on the first floor. It is constantly dripping into my sump. Never used vinegar though - I'll give it a try.

What's the latest theory on the usable lifespan of kalkwasser over time. Some say you need to use it shortly after mixing or you lose the benefit of the kalk.

it does loose effectiveness..
however, if kept in an airtight container, that's not circulated, it has been show to maintain its effectiveness for up to a week or so.

the key is air tight.
to keep it simple, its the mixing of air that reduces the effectiveness of the kalk

After seeing the video, I'm planning on setting up one of these on my 55 gallon. Until I get an auto-topoff kit, I'm going to try to set it just under my normal evaporation rate. Has anyone done a test to see what the volume conversion is for drops of this stuff out of standard airline tubing? I know a rule of thumb for water from an eye-dropper is 20 drops/mL. But, while the density and viscosity of this stuff shouldn't vary from water enough to greatly affect that conversion, the size of the opening will.

For example, my tank loses anywhere from 0.25-0.5 gallons/day. If I want to set my kalk drip for 0.25 gallons/day, using 20 drops/mL, I need a drop every 4-5 seconds. However, I suspect that the drop from airline tubing will be larger, and I'll need to drip slower. I guess I can just set it up and monitor it.

to get that specific you would need a doser, with this method you will not likely get that accurate.

Another option for auto-top off...reverse the concept! Have the bottle lower than the tank. Make sure the end hanging over the water is open (i.e.-not underwater). Then use an air pump hooked up to a float switch...you know how you blew in to start the siphon...basically the air pump turns on when the water level goes down, and then pushes the kalk up and into the tank. Since the airline tubing end is open and there is no siphon because the bottle is lower than the tank...shuts off the flow when the pump turns off (with the float switch!) Got this idea off of TRT a while back. Bought a simple float switch online (about $7)...was a great investment!
-Jon

yep, great idea.. thanks for sharing..

my system is basically the same thing

5 gallon bucket that powers a small powerhead (instead of air pump)
flot switch kicks, turns on powerhead
pumps water to tank, float, stops - water stops.

bucket is below tank water level, so no syphon.. :)

When I get a couple of float switches (will have one for emergency shutoff), I'm planning on doing it that way. The drops/second thing will be just in the interum until I get that system purchased and installed.

nice vidio

Hi Vanmo,

Welcome to TalkingReef!

Thanks. Glad to be here

it does loose effectiveness..
however, if kept in an airtight container, that's not circulated, it has been show to maintain its effectiveness for up to a week or so.

the key is air tight.
to keep it simple, its the mixing of air that reduces the effectiveness of the kalk

Rob,

Just to add my 0.02, I think it can maintain effectiveness longer than a week in an airtight container. Check out this article:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php

Figures 3, 4 and 5.

I typically mix up my saturated lime water once every few weeks and it seems to maintain my Ca and Alk just as well when it is freshly mixed and when the container is almost used up 2-4 weeks later. The key is keeping the lid on the container like you said :)

Brian

great info...
i was erring on the side of caution, i have known and read it to longer, but mine never lasts that long (because i use it), and i try to refrain for begin specific on stuff i haven't experienced first hand..

thanks for posting that link

Here is a dumb question, I've been dosing Kalk for about two weeks, it has been maintaining my Ca and Alk nicely. Can I dose a little stronger to raise both? My Ca is 350ppm and Alk is 7. I'd like to be Ca400 and Alk 8-10.

John,

Your best bet is to use a two part additive and slowly bring the CA and Alk up. Once you get it balanced and where you want it, you can use Kalk to keep it maintained. The same holds true for a calcium reactor. It can maintain your levels, but probably not efficient at pushing them up.

I know that others will say "heck ya..you can use Kalk to boost". This is somewhat true. However, by doing this without watching alkalinity, you can throw your chemistry out of whack.

I often use B-Ionics to get my paramaters "set". From there on in... I use Kalk to keep the levels where I want them, checking on alkalinity often.

Dave

Here is a dumb question, I've been dosing Kalk for about two weeks, it has been maintaining my Ca and Alk nicely. Can I dose a little stronger to raise both? My Ca is 350ppm and Alk is 7. I'd like to be Ca400 and Alk 8-10.

I agree that a two part additive is probably the best way to raise it and then kalk to maintain. You don't mention your pH, keep an eye on your pH whenever you are adding things that can alter the pH.

Brian

and i agree with both of them..
Kalk is best used to "maintain" levels. as stated it is possible to raise alk and Ca with kalk, you really need to know whats going on, and i dont recommend it as it can be tricky to do without fall out.

the two part additives are the safest way to go.. :)

So, Rob, yours doesn't drip then. When your water gets low, your system injects top off water full of kalk? Thats what I need to do. There is no way I can have mine higher than my tank or sump. What affects does this have on ph since so much is being added at one time instead of driped? Does if affect ph differently?

if you cant have it higher than the tank there are a few rules to follow.
set it up exactly as you would an auto top off.
keep the end of the hose above the water in the bucket to prevent siphon
use a peristaltic pump if you can get one.
and plan for the worst. as in use a holding container small enough so that if, by some freak chance, the whole thing went into the tank it wouldn't cause disaster.
other options are using a timer, as mentioned in one of the recent shows. this makes sure that the top off pump "only" runs for select periods of time, thus preventing a stuck or broke float switch from running all of the kalk into your system at once

the whole thing went into the tank it would'nt cause disaster.
thanks V, i fixed the typo

I have one comment about using kalk as top up water. sorry if this has been mentioned already, but i read that its not such a great idea to add kalk to the tank later in the day because pH is gennerally higher (due to higher photosynthesis rates). we all know that most of the water evaporates during the day when the lights are on, so some people who practice this might have large pH changes through out the day. i'm sure its not too big of a problem, and a simple solution would be putting your auto top off system on a timer so it works early in the day. just wondering if anyone ells had any thoughton this.

yes, this is a good point.
i do think it applies more to people that are the doser mentioned that drips a whole container at once, even ad a slow rate.
and applies less to people that use it with an auto top off and only add small about over the course of a whole day.

that said, you are right...
if you are dosing using a container and dripping it in, the best time to do this is in the morning hours before you head off to work or whatever.. :)

OK I think I am ready to setup my Kalkwasser system for the first time. I have a doser pump, a jar of pickling lime (found it locally), some vinegar and Robs recepie. Now after reading Davids post above (post 4) I think that is the amount I should use. However I am unsure how big his tank is.

I can set my doser to dose at a certain rate and to stop doing after a certain amount. For my 65G what is a good starting point as far as how much and how fast? I think I will set it up to dose from a 5 gallon bucket or Rubbermaid container. Any help is appreciated.

well, there is no "set amount" (shock! right..)
since you are using a dosing pump, am i correct in assuming you are not using this as top off water?

if that assumption is right, get a measure of your Ca and Alk, and them start with about 1/2 a gallon a day. after 2 days, measure your Ca and Alk, if its still dropping, increase by 1/4 gallon.. then test, and so on.

if you are simply doing it for there other benefits besides Ca and Alk, then i would keep to 1/2 gallon a day or less, and confirm its not disrupting your PH, or raising your Ca or Alk to much.

OK, I appreciate your input. Fat Walrus and I were paging back and forth on the subject. I think maybe I will start slower, just to be safe. I was thinking of dosing 125ml per hour for 8 hours at night for a total of 1 liter (about 1qt) per night.

I will check it after 2 days to be sure of my levels.

I will log in my journal online for all to see and comment on. Thanks again Rob and FW!

sounds liek a plan.. :)

main point is dose, test, adjust.. dose, test, adjust...

ok i might of missed this in this thread but if i want to run one and i dont have a sump yet. would it be ok to run it about a drop a second for about 30 minutes or more in the mornings? just set it up on a timer?

yes, it can be does directly into the tank. this is how i did mine or months.
what you have to do (sump or display) is dose/drip it into a HIGH flow area, like right in front of a powerhead

ok i am trying to set it up right now but im having a gravity issue lol its either never (with pump running) or always (with or without pump) im going to build a shelf and see if that works lol

what do you mean by gravity issue.
so you pumping, not dripping?

i am doing the same thing you showed on the vid. but i am using a air pump to create the pressure in the kalk bottle. but if i put it to low ( where i want it ) it doesnt make it up to the tank. if i put it to high then its a constent uncontroled drip about a drip every second or 2 the biggest problem is i dont have room lol i was thinking about buying a rio like you have and forgetting about it. but i would really like to get this setup to work controled.

ah.. ok...
with the drip method, as i show in the video with the container, it must be above the tank to work right. the pressure in the bottle is only to start the syphon, once its started, you use the little valve i showed to control the drip rate.

as for the bucket and pump, that is how i am doing it now, i have a maxijet 400 (dont get a rio, the constant on off will tear it up). the MJ400 is connected to a float switch that turns the pump on and off as needed

ok but if the bottle is above the tank and you start it how do you control it to stop it without being there? is there a way?

you dont need to.
this method is for those that are not using it as evap top off, or who know how much evap will occur during the day. in either case, you just start it, set it to the right drip rate, and let it empty the container.
you just let it go, and if its not enough to cover you evap, just top it off later.

if you want to go the full top off with kalk, then you need to go the route with the switch and large container. i should do a show on this setup.

if you want to go the full top off with kalk, then you need to go the route with the switch and large container. i should do a show on this setup.

You can go that route, but I have created (copied really, there used to be a commerical products called a nurce, but the company is long gone) a bottle that sits above the water level in my sump that feeds kalk only when the water level drops below a certain point. It is hard to explain in words, but maybe Rob and I can figure out how to include that in his show as an option. No switch to stick and it has yet to fail on me (although it did get plugged twice, but that doesn't do any damage to the tank).

Here area couple of graphics:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/RCPerm/flowing.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/RCPerm/equal.jpg

Brian

so its like a siphon, and when the water equalizes it stops the syphon?

so its like a siphon, and when the water equalizes it stops the syphon?

Yes, exactly right. The one way this device can fail is if it is not air tight. If there is a leak somewhere then the entire bottle will empty into the sump/tank, the rate it empties will depend on how large of the hole is that is letting in air.

I just used a bunch of silicon around any weak points and haven't had a leak yet (knock on wood) and I've used it for almost 12 months now.

Brian

do you have to start the siphon every time the container empties out and you refill it?
if just plain water, thsi might not be an issue, but i top off with kalk, and clean out the container every refill to get the settled junk out of there

ok one last question, i have started my kalk wasser ( thank you for the video rob ) and i am doing the testing every 12 hours ( just test alk and cal ) anyways my question is since i have started there is a oilie glare on the top of my water. is that just the vinigar or the pickling lime? and is it normal?

do you have to start the siphon every time the container empties out and you refill it?
if just plain water, thsi might not be an issue, but i top off with kalk, and clean out the container every refill to get the settled junk out of there

Yes, the siphon has to be restarted each time. I have built a holder for my "point A" in my diagram above. All I do is refill the container, take the air tube out, wrap my hand around the messy end and blow into it until the air bubbles stop blowing out of the water tube and the kalk begins to flow. I then simply place the tube back in the holder and it will shut off as soon as the water reaches the tube.

My water tube stops about 1.5" above the bottom of my topoff container, so it runs out of top off kalk before it reaches the settled junk :D I clean my top-off container once every 6 months with vinegar and water. If the water tube goes to the bottom of the top-off container then it could pull in the settled junk and it would clog all the time.

Brian

i used to have one of those nurse top off system. they went out of business because once you see it, it is so easy to make. if you ever run into those syrup canisters that soda companies used for soda fountains, it would make an ideal container for this device.

is there a expiration on the pickling lime kalk? i have mine set to really slow drips however everything is open and happy more than ever and my levels are staying well level lol. but im not using that much kalk. does it ever go bad?

is there a expiration on the pickling lime kalk? i have mine set to really slow drips however everything is open and happy more than ever and my levels are staying well level lol. but im not using that much kalk. does it ever go bad?
i think the powder will be good as long as it stays dry. but the solution itself loses potency over time. i think 48 hours is the assumed maximum useful lifespan.

i think the powder will be good as long as it stays dry. but the solution itself loses potency over time. i think 48 hours is the assumed maximum useful lifespan.

This is for a container open to the air. If you put a relatively airtight lid on the container it lasts much longer:

Kalk can maintain effectiveness longer than a week in an airtight container. Check out this article:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php

Figures 3, 4 and 5.

I typically mix up my saturated lime water once every few weeks and it seems to maintain my Ca and Alk just as well when it is freshly mixed and when the container is almost used up 2-4 weeks later. The key is keeping the lid on the container. I always mix mine super saturated so there is more to dissolve into the liquid if some forms a precipitate on the water's surface.

Brian

yep i used to mix mine up once a week, but im going through ti faster now, so my 5 gallon mix lasts me 2-3 day

Watch your levels close Wesley. You need to find the proper amount to dose and you won't know until you see how much Ca is depleted and how fast.

i stoped using it about 4 days ago. my alk went down for some reason so i stopped the kalk untill i can figure that one out.. thanks for the heads up though. also when i was using the kalk i was testing everyday. ( every freakin day) and my levels seem to be really good. up untill the low alk.

new instant video added to this thread
you can now view this video right here in the post live

see post #1 to view the video

First off...Hello! Got a link to this video off another forum.
I have a custom made kalk reactor coming next week but I went ahead and made one of these to tide me over until it gets here. I have a Ca reactor that can only get the Ca about 435ppm and not any higher and I have it cranked.
Works great for no more then what I have in it. Thanks for the video.

Hi Scott and :welcome: to TR.

Nice tank and really cute junior reefers. :)

Hey Rob,

Great Video, I would like to see a video on how to set-up/run a calcium reactor, I have read up on them but I learn better or would say get a betterr grasp by seeing then reading, I have a 90 gallon tank with mostly softies/mushrooms/lps. I really want to go sps but i get confused / Afraid to take that jump.

Thanks
EJ

Hey Rob,

Great Video, I would like to see a video on how to set-up/run a calcium reactor, I have read up on them but I learn better or would say get a betterr grasp by seeing then reading, I have a 90 gallon tank with mostly softies/mushrooms/lps. I really want to go sps but i get confused / Afraid to take that jump.

Thanks
EJ
Once you see how a Ca reactor runs you will kick your self in the butt for not doing it years ago. It is a real easy piece of equipment.

I hope someone posts a video.

EJ

im hoping to get a Calc reactor soon, i will try and get some videos done up with it.
cant set any time lines now, but should hopefully be soon